Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

Need help picking a clutch kit

31K views 130 replies 37 participants last post by  ducvet 
#1 ·
Think it's time to change my clutch disc set. I checked out a couple website like ca-cycleworks, desmotimes and of course eBay.

Are all these kits universal? For instance, ca-cycleworks states "Barnett DryFlex clutch, alum plates - fitment: All dry clutches". Desmotimes states "Barnett - Only for use on Aluminum clutch baskets. If you install these clutches in a steel clutch basket, they will wear prematurely."

Then there is eBay, it lists a Barnett kit for "DUCATI 600 620 750 800" at $164 but a kit for a "998 996 monster 900ss 999 748 749" at $185?

Am I missing something here? Do I need a specific part # for my 99 900ss? Everything is stock on my bike so I assume I have a steel basket? I'm just looking to an OEM equivalent replacement, nothing special.

Thanks for any help!
BR
 
#90 ·
I recall looking online at the time, and from what I could gather then, 20K out of a set of clutch plates was not considered unusual
Yes this is quite often the case with lack of information, it is also some of the reason I stopped listening to paid moto journalists. Back in the early 90's many magazine testers would take a ducati dry clutch bike to the drag strip because it was how they determined how powerful a bike was as dyno's were not plentiful yet. Many tests would state that the dry clutches needed to be replaced by the end of the testing, this was simply not true. Yes changing the plates did make the clutch as new again but so would simply servicing the plates, I think this is where it came into the belief that dry clutch plates cannot last for many miles.

Now yes the plates do need replacing but if serviced regularly they should easily last tens of thousands of miles and a slipping dry clutch is much less common reason to change them out.
#1 Bling
#2 noise
#3 chatter
#4 performance
#5 slipping

I do see many cases of internet lore that guides bike owners some good some not so good. It is what we have so we live with both and the trick is to determine good from bad information. Keeping in mind there always will be outliers that challenge conventional wisdom even in this day of information at our fingertips I find new things weekly.
 
#93 ·
Punch

I would certainly consider a used inner hub as the cost should be cheap and normally they do not wear like yours did, knowing how yours wore you could pick a good one from ebay off of a 749,999,1000,monster etc and get the last upgraded hub so no more wear from the star washer. This should also solve the shipping issue. The hub itself only runs about $150 us and the cush rubbers and inner steel do not need changing 90% of the time. make sure the roll pin is still there and you are good to go.

Steve
I do know of people who have taken "vacations" to ship parts as it was cheaper to fly and bring the item, you would figure there would be a service to have someone be that Currier just for such circumstances. Maybe that will be my next job, I could think of worse things to do than sitting on a flight to deliver parts...lol
You might also check local engine shops as there are some who will weld up a crankshaft and re-grind so you can use standard journals again, not cheap but probably better than shipping costs listed.
 
#94 ·
Punch

I would certainly consider a used inner hub as the cost should be cheap and normally they do not wear like yours did, knowing how yours wore you could pick a good one from ebay off of a 749,999,1000,monster etc and get the last upgraded hub so no more wear from the star washer. This should also solve the shipping issue. The hub itself only runs about $150 us and the cush rubbers and inner steel do not need changing 90% of the time. make sure the roll pin is still there and you are good to go.
Agree totally - just a matter of finding one. I will decide on what I need after dismantling, but from what I can see so far, no problem with the internal parts of the hub, but will report back.
I know I need a new hub and will simply buy the Cush stuff and do them whilst I am in there.

ducvet;6641633 Steve I do know of people who have taken "vacations" to ship parts as it was cheaper to fly and bring the item said:
Two things here.
I helped, well did for my son a few years ago, with a well known Japanese brand single that is popular/manufactured in India.

Via a mate, with me getting all the correct part numbers, and his business friend (yes business making a profit) in Singapore, exactly the same parts and same part numbers and packaging were about 60% lower than Oz.

@ ducvet - do Curriers deliver faster than couriers? Touchee and one all>:)

All that aside I just want buy/obtain a new/used hub to get get me back on the 900SS without forfeiting a testicle.
 
#97 ·
How do you service the plates?
Steels need to be flat (unless they are cupped spring plates) so using something like a scotchbrite wheel to remove any high spots. High spots are often seen as blue or purple dots from debris getting mashed into the plate after falling between them. I re-surface all steels until they are uniform on both sides even the cupped spring plates.

Fibers are often the source of the debris with age as the tabs wear , break off and fall between the clutch plates. If you dress up the tabs so they are square with no curled up material you just bought yourself usually 5000ish miles before you need to do it again. Yes each time you remove material you will have increased the speed at which it will reoccur as the more gap the more damage to tabs and baskets but you should replace them as a set anyway like a chain and sprockets.

If you blow out the clutch dust do it outside and with a respirator as the dust may kill you if you breath enough of it, not worth the chance I prefer to clean it out with parts cleaner and a rag so you do not breath it.
 
#99 · (Edited)
I have not forgotten this thread as that is not my way and really appreciate the feedback, opinions etc.

So a quick update - the Ducabike kit turned up in no time with great communication from Julie at FBG.

I stopped by on my two hour bus/train commute on the way home to Frasers near Strathfield to buy a clutch hub and 6 Cush rubbers. The Cush rubbers were just an "investment" for my own peace of mind.

The slight delay in posting results is due to my sort of permanent loaned rattle gun battery being cactus and not having a 32mm socket.

Solution - borrowed a functional rattle gun and 32mm socket from my mate who's rattle gun is my "permanent" loaner. (the 32 mm is 6 point and my preference over 12).

Will all be done this weekend and will post results.
 
#101 ·
Cactus - Not sure, however it is a term that we Antipodeans can use in the public domain, where everyone really knows its meaning is fucked, shagged, rooted, beyond repair etc.

Loctite - noted thanks.
 
#103 ·
Punch, you should definitely do what ever you feel comfortable with but I well say that the instructions that came with my Ducabike slipper clutch recommended Loctite 510 on the basket bolts. It's more of a sealant to keep oil from leaking past the bolts than for locking them. The stock stuff on my Monster was red but it was definitely not typical Red Loctite. It was very soft and easy to remove. There was enough that it was all over the backside of the basket forming a sort of gasket. I only had 243 so used a bunch of it.

The big center nut that gets torqued to 135 lb/ft had no Loctite on it from the factory and Ducabike didn't recommend using any. I didn't.

But I also plan to service this slipper clutch quite often. Again, you do whatever you feel safer with.
 
#104 ·
Yes i am sure there are plenty of thread locking compounds that will do the job just check with a local bike/car shop for something that will do what you need. I use the 272 but you may not find it over there, I am sure it is a easy thing to get for any mechanic.
 
#105 ·
i've got a feeling 272 got discontinued out here. loctite was pink, blue, red, green in terms of soft to strong. we used to use 270 (green) on the bmw pivot bearing pins.

i use the wurth stuff. green on stuff you don't want to come off, blue on the others.

i fitted a moto guzzi cylinder stud with the green once. it went tight before it went home, then broke the stud trying to remove it. happy days.

the 8 basket bolts are a thread sealant, not a locker as such. 510 is the std redish stuff. i don't use loctite on the centre nut. just never have.
 
#106 ·
I've never seen the green stuff here in the US. Damn, and I thought the red we have here was permanent. The green sounds like the first time I ever saw Superglue. My friend said "here, put some of this on your fingers and press them together." :)
 
#107 ·
Thanks for the info on the Loctite etc.
I have some 243 in the shed and some blue Loctite that is hiding somewhere, so unknown number, but will check.
Mates nearby will have something suitable if I can't find the blue.
 
#112 ·
OK - next dumb question after stupidly ordering on 6 Cush rubbers, then getting the other six!

What is the best method for reassembling the hub, Cush rubbers and the drum?

Looks like it could be a PITA and possibly damage the Cush rubbers if not done correctly.

I am sure I know why there is damage to the drum and the culprit is me. I will explain later.
 
#114 ·
Thanks - I have some PBR rubber grease, so will use that.

What flavour jam? I think we only have raspberry at the moment>:)

So as the bishop said to the actress, it requires lubricant and a force fit?

I still often quote something you once posted in response to this question. "is it a left hand thread"

and your response was "only when it is fucked". I smile every time when I think about that.
 
#115 ·
Being serious now, I will use the PBR rubber grease, then use a bolt/nut very large washer set to spread the load on the two parts.

A bit like a poor man's press.

I think I cobbled it together for the Lambretta project where I recall I needed to gently install rubber/steel engine mounts.
 
#117 ·
All good thanks.

Just used the PBR Lube. Made sure the Cush drives were lined up, placed the drum on the shed floor with a towel to protect it.

Aligned the hub to the Cush drive gaps then just stood on it and it eased down no problems.

I just knew a youtube belt it with a rubber mallet did not seem right, so hence the question and correct answer from Brad/the forum.

10pm here in Oz, so going resist finishing off the job as it will only take a few minutes and I know I will be tempted to start it and the neighbours etc. will not be pleased.

All pretty simple when you have the right tools and instructions.

Thanks all, I have learnt something new.
 
#118 ·
I did not resist to a degree, so a little heads up on this, be patient and learn, as I have!

Brad's suggestion and my using my weight/gravity approach worked very well.

There is a small pin in the hub that "mates" to a hole in the bush.

Just make sure the hub is fully seated to allow the bush to locate into the the pin.

That is not in any manual, so just my observation.

If anyone says yeah I knew that, then this is a heads up for people like me that did not know, but became obvious before just torquing things up and causing expensive damage.

I even looked at the 1000DS manual I have with pretty coloured pictures and it did not tell/advise any of the things I have learnt here.
 
#119 ·
Final dumb question hopefully.

The pressure plate kit came with the attached instructions and components.
Pressure plate, 6 x springs, 6 x caps and 12 x 2mm thick washers (shims?) with 20mm OD and ID to suit 5mm screw.

The instructions for the Monster, either C or D image says to use one or two shims as per the diagram.

No idea how this is supposed to work as the 20mm OD is less than the spring ID and would just rattle around inside the spring.

I cannot find anything so far on the internet about doing this.

I am inclined to just fit the springs and caps, no shims, unless I am missing something bleeding obvious.
 

Attachments

#120 ·
It’s pretty obvious they are intended to apply varying amounts of preload but it doesn’t make since they would be smaller than the springs.

Is the diameter of the springs the same in both ends?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
#121 ·
No actual knowledge of the issue, but perhaps the washer/shims are supposed to go on the bolt head side of the spring cap? Would they fit in the indentation of the spring cap? Obviously this isn't what the picture shows. Otherwise I was going to suggest what Duck Man already did. Final thought is, aren't you installing this in your Supersport not a Monster? Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but the paper doesn't give specific instructions for a SS.
 
#122 ·
Preload was my assumption as well.

Spring ID is the same both ends, so the washer slides straight through.

Also, the washer OD would be a very tight fit into the pressure plate hole that the drum posts fit
 
#124 ·
Thanks everyone.

All good now and excluded the "shims"

I did not have a low range torque wrench and all mates were out.

As an interim I used luggage scales and calculated the kg required at 9.7cm on my Allen (hex) key to equal the nm required torque.

Now need to fit the new speedo drive and cable and go for a test ride.
 
#125 ·
It looks to me from the instruction picture the spacers are added to lower the preload on the springs by adding distance from the pressure plate and spring cup. The first clue was that the street bikes (hyper and monster) used them but NOT the superbike.

I would guess they simply push the spring cups out away from the bike and lower preload. This would give you less clamping force which may be acceptable on a dry clutch bike with under 100hp as well as a easier initial clutch pull. It does not change the spring rate but lowers the force needed to get the springs compressed so easier initial pull but equal strength to hold compressed.

They should as the pictures show go between the spring cup (small end) and the posts. With or without them the clutch should work it will only effect pull strength initially.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top