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Punch
Yes Brad had you covered I will agree with him that outside of breaking a post hubs do NOT wear out. I change them about never unless there is tip over/crash damage or it is an move to a slipper clutch, other than that I have not seen a reason to change one. Outer basket is another story in that the grooves can get so deep the plates hang up and the pack does not separate enough, this too can be remedied with a file to make the basket continue but as you gain space between the plate tab and the basket you increase the wear rate and noise level.

As to aluminum vs steel.
steel hubs do exist but they are probably 1980's and earlier so I doubt you will have one anyway. The aluminum hubs have a large steel washer that is under the "cup" this washer can wear into the hub on early models but all you do is add another of the same washer if you have this issue. Later models have a insert so it no longer wears into the aluminum hub.

Steel baskets can run any type of plate, aluminum or steel.
Aluminum baskets SHOULD run aluminum plates but sintered plates will be steel, as far as I know all slippers running sintered plates run steel plates in aluminum baskets. I did a 848 dry clutch conversion last year and the "kit" came with non-sintered plates on aluminum, clearly street focused which will lead to shorter friction material life.
Steel baskets ring, Aluminum baskets thud. Pick your sound and enjoy, though remember us mechanics are running your bike on a bench with that open dry clutch at ear level ......What......what did you say?

The 749/999 kit should bring your bike up to latest spec for a dry clutch it should last a good long time. At that price it should be a bargain and just a drop in. make sure to Loctite those outer basket bolts or oil will weep through the threads and cause a leak.


When you said you are only getting 20,000km out of a oem clutch what was wrong with it? I have oem clutches going 50,000 miles that are only changed due to noise. Seriously 20,000km is probably jut time for a bit of clean up, you may be doing the same as selling a bike instead of giving it a tune up. Yes noise will grow with age but the clutch should be fully functional well past the time you want to listen to it, I have a 50,000 mile plate on the wall that has about 1/2 tab worn off but friction material is about 80% and I know it would run fine.
I figure this is aimed at me... They're slipping. As in no drive in the upper gears. The noise level was the same, just the thing was slipping. The Barnett clutch went in more to change the noise, and improve the response than because the OEM basket was worn - which it was, a bit, but not enough to be a 'have to' job. I never considered that 20,000kms between sets of plates was that unusual for a 900?
 

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I figure this is aimed at me... They're slipping. As in no drive in the upper gears. The noise level was the same, just the thing was slipping. The Barnett clutch went in more to change the noise, and improve the response than because the OEM basket was worn - which it was, a bit, but not enough to be a 'have to' job. I never considered that 20,000kms between sets of plates was that unusual for a 900?
Ha - I don't think this was an "aimed" response - this is all about swapping info/experience.

That aside, I changed from as purchased brand new bike at about 40,000 km. The next OEM frictions set lasted about the same.
I experienced slipping on acceleration at about 5k rpm, but maybe because of the corrugations.

Maybe NZ riders ride harder than Oz then US lower down the pecking order?>:)

Either way, whatever the cause/life, I ordered the full on special Ducabike lightweight kit from Liam/Julie at fastbikegear in NZ late Monday night and had an email early Tuesday morning to confirm model and year = impressive attention to detail.

I now need to pull down the assembly and mates who know more than me can do an "autopsy"
I will have up for sale very soon the Newfren complete kit of steel friction and drive plates that have done about 100 km.
Just need to find the kit part number as they were quite expensive and sintered, not organic based.
 

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Punch

I agree with Brad in that the wear you have on the inner hub is abnormal, I had to look at a few in the shop and yours wins the prize for wear. I have to imagine the excess wear is due to something not right, aftermarket hub,aftermarket steel plates,improper hardness of the hub. All the aluminum hubs I have here show where the plates sit but there is little to no wear, either the aluminum was too soft or the gap between the steel plates used and hub was too great allowing the extra hit. Once the gap opens up due to such wear the damage will get greater with each hit due to the larger gap, downward spiral.

Steve64

Slipping on acceleration can be caused by a few things in my experience worn out dry clutch plates are the rarest unless you are slipping the clutch often (slipper clutch) . This does not mean it cannot happen obviously but that I would look closely to see why the slipping is happening to you at such low miles. Once you switch to non-oem then you need to trust (learn) a new stack height that works for your bike. Oem parts should work as intended from the factory and there are plenty of spec's on these.

Some causes for slipping would be...
oil leaking on plates, from pushrod or large seal behind the basket or through the outer baskets bolt threads.
Improper stack height, plenty of clutches sold incorrectly.
A out of dimension part in the hub or pressure plate, causing your bike to want/need a different stack height.
Incorrect free play at the master or too long a pushrod so the clutch is partially disengaged.
Insufficient preload/spring pressure on the clutch springs.
Incorrect stack height that allows the pack to slip from day on essentially installing a partially worn pack from new.

The larger the gap between the tabs and grooves of the outer basket the greater the wear on the tabs and grooves, this adds noise but should have little effect on slipping. dry clutch groan is often caused by the bits from a worn plate /basket getting pressed into the steels so you have high points (chatter) but again not slipping. I do see older hubs worn enough that they need a second big star washer but have not experienced those bikes slipping I could picture the wear allowing more space in the stack and causing a need for increased stack height. This might be something to look at if you are still running the same hub, the barnett may have simply been a thicker pack so it is working better.


Maybe NZ riders ride harder than Oz then US lower down the pecking order?
You know we always assumed the USA got all the Ducati seconds ( after Bimota of course) but maybe Ducati let a few slip to the other side of the world for balance sake.

Ducati dry clutch material holds up well enough I have customers who run 4-spring setup (removing 2 oem springs) for a lighter clutch pull and have no issues with slip. Yes they are often city bikes and some run 4 heavier springs such as the barnett or stainless steel aftermarket sets. This is often with superbikes and big motors that make a bit more HP/torque than a 900, in some cases this is down to them not being as abusive but when I test ride them they do not slip under hard acceleration.

Bottom line is if you have had better luck with aftermarket great as they are cheaper it is a win win for you. As a shop I wish the aftermarket ( Barnett) had a better track record as I make more profit on them and they are much easier to get than ordering through a Ducati dealer. Sadly at this time I still recommend Ducati oem due to cost vs lifespan that I have seen over the last 20 years.
*** note I have used companies plates that supply Ducati like Adige and have found them to be the equal to oem so there are exceptions to every rule***
 

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Steve64

Slipping on acceleration can be caused by a few things in my experience worn out dry clutch plates are the rarest unless you are slipping the clutch often (slipper clutch) . This does not mean it cannot happen obviously but that I would look closely to see why the slipping is happening to you at such low miles. Once you switch to non-oem then you need to trust (learn) a new stack height that works for your bike. Oem parts should work as intended from the factory and there are plenty of spec's on these.

Some causes for slipping would be...
oil leaking on plates, from pushrod or large seal behind the basket or through the outer baskets bolt threads.
Improper stack height, plenty of clutches sold incorrectly.
A out of dimension part in the hub or pressure plate, causing your bike to want/need a different stack height.
Incorrect free play at the master or too long a pushrod so the clutch is partially disengaged.
Insufficient preload/spring pressure on the clutch springs.
Incorrect stack height that allows the pack to slip from day on essentially installing a partially worn pack from new.

The larger the gap between the tabs and grooves of the outer basket the greater the wear on the tabs and grooves, this adds noise but should have little effect on slipping. dry clutch groan is often caused by the bits from a worn plate /basket getting pressed into the steels so you have high points (chatter) but again not slipping. I do see older hubs worn enough that they need a second big star washer but have not experienced those bikes slipping I could picture the wear allowing more space in the stack and causing a need for increased stack height. This might be something to look at if you are still running the same hub, the barnett may have simply been a thicker pack so it is working better.




You know we always assumed the USA got all the Ducati seconds ( after Bimota of course) but maybe Ducati let a few slip to the other side of the world for balance sake.

Ducati dry clutch material holds up well enough I have customers who run 4-spring setup (removing 2 oem springs) for a lighter clutch pull and have no issues with slip. Yes they are often city bikes and some run 4 heavier springs such as the barnett or stainless steel aftermarket sets. This is often with superbikes and big motors that make a bit more HP/torque than a 900, in some cases this is down to them not being as abusive but when I test ride them they do not slip under hard acceleration.

Bottom line is if you have had better luck with aftermarket great as they are cheaper it is a win win for you. As a shop I wish the aftermarket ( Barnett) had a better track record as I make more profit on them and they are much easier to get than ordering through a Ducati dealer. Sadly at this time I still recommend Ducati oem due to cost vs lifespan that I have seen over the last 20 years.
*** note I have used companies plates that supply Ducati like Adige and have found them to be the equal to oem so there are exceptions to every rule***
Some causes for slipping would be...
oil leaking on plates, from pushrod or large seal behind the basket or through the outer baskets bolt threads.
Nope. Inside of clutch was oil free.

Improper stack height, plenty of clutches sold incorrectly.
OEM clutch 1st time around. Possibly with the second, as I can't remember whether it was an OEM clutch, or a Surflex. I think a Surflex kit.

A out of dimension part in the hub or pressure plate, causing your bike to want/need a different stack height.
Possibly. It IS a Ducati. ;)

Incorrect free play at the master or too long a pushrod so the clutch is partially disengaged.
OEM pushrod, possibly the free play, but I generally have it set so the engagement point is well before the lever is fully released.

Insufficient preload/spring pressure on the clutch springs.
Possible, but the spring length is mentioned in the Haynes manual, and I'm pretty sure I checked it.

Incorrect stack height that allows the pack to slip from day on essentially installing a partially worn pack from new.
I'm not sure that I had the stack heights right, as it isn't mentioned in the Haynes manual. But there was definitely no slip after changing the plates.

There was one cause that you didn't list - worn plates. And I do recall checking the plate thickness, which was below the minimum. Thus the new plates.

Admittedly, the first time it died, it was after being abused in heavy traffic (for some distance), where the traffic was moving, but slowly, so lots of slipping the clutch - up a hill. Now I lane split when it gets like that.
Otherwise, I try hard to NOT sit idling in gear with the clutch lever in - I just click into neutral as I roll to a halt - and most of my riding (since the first replacement) these days is on quiet rural roads, with no reason to be harsh on the clutch.

One thing that I just thought of - the terrain I ride on is pretty tight and twisty, so I'm changing gear a LOT, rather than sitting in top through fast flowing roads. And as per my photos in the 'What have you done' thread - I only got 4,000kms out of my last rear tyre.


You know we always assumed the USA got all the Ducati seconds ( after Bimota of course) but maybe Ducati let a few slip to the other side of the world for balance sake.

Lol - well, I did buy mine in the UK.
 

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Lucky you...;).

If you order from us, request US Post. Shipping is much better that way.
Our current website shipping estimater is based on UPS which is much higher--but we ship via lowest price carrier and then credit any savings back to your card.

-M
I received this bike, an '11 1198, with its EVR vented pressure plate missing several of the stainless countersunk screws. Since you guys sell EVR, could I possibly purchase replacements from you? I'm concerned about it running out of balance due to rotational inertia and also that the pressure plate may launch sone day if more screws back out! Also, can you tell from the looks of it whether its a slipper clutch?
 

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Steve64
There was one cause that you didn't list - worn plates. And I do recall checking the plate thickness, which was below the minimum. Thus the new plates.
Yes I did not list that one as it is assumed to be why you changed plates, my question is more to why you would have worn down parts that normally do not wear that fast. Often the clutch frictions continue to function just fine when under spec but not in all cases. Some times in these instances you just adjust the stack height by adding and subtracting other plates to get back to a functional stack height. Yes we like to get our moneys worth out of a clutch pack.

If your clutch is working fine (no other issues causing a slip)then adding 1 or even .5mm thickness might be all you need. There are /were 1.5mm flat plates Ducati used as well as 1.5mm belville (cupped) plates. There is no reason you cannot swap a 2.0mm stock plate for two 1.5mm flat plates. Know that as you fatten the pack the hydraulics need to push farther to separate the pack so if you have a large bore aftermarket slave you might run into a situation where getting neutral with a running but stopped bike can be difficult.

I am close enough to a large city to see plenty of stop and go drivers as well as lived in one of the foul things once myself, stop and go driving does increase wear but not often enough to wear out the friction plates that often. I would simply pay attention to the clutch if the pattern continues and if it does take a real close look for something besides the plates out of spec.
 

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Steve64

Yes I did not list that one as it is assumed to be why you changed plates, my question is more to why you would have worn down parts that normally do not wear that fast. Often the clutch frictions continue to function just fine when under spec but not in all cases. Some times in these instances you just adjust the stack height by adding and subtracting other plates to get back to a functional stack height. Yes we like to get our moneys worth out of a clutch pack.

If your clutch is working fine (no other issues causing a slip)then adding 1 or even .5mm thickness might be all you need. There are /were 1.5mm flat plates Ducati used as well as 1.5mm belville (cupped) plates. There is no reason you cannot swap a 2.0mm stock plate for two 1.5mm flat plates. Know that as you fatten the pack the hydraulics need to push farther to separate the pack so if you have a large bore aftermarket slave you might run into a situation where getting neutral with a running but stopped bike can be difficult.

I am close enough to a large city to see plenty of stop and go drivers as well as lived in one of the foul things once myself, stop and go driving does increase wear but not often enough to wear out the friction plates that often. I would simply pay attention to the clutch if the pattern continues and if it does take a real close look for something besides the plates out of spec.
Good points. I think the main reason that I didn't just pack the clutch was that the information was lacking - and I didn't have any spare plates at the time (though DOH as I've done similar to my old 1100ET Suzuki). I recall looking online at the time, and from what I could gather then, 20K out of a set of clutch plates was not considered unusual, so I just bit the bullet and bought another one. Maybe the problem was the OEM basket, as I've already got more kms out of the Barnett plates than I did from the OEM and Surflex plates. Anyhow, thanks for the tip, and I'll keep that in mind.
@Punch - you'll like the new clutch! And as for that hub... :crazy: I've not seen or even been shown one that looked like that. Even the one out of my McIntosh that was cracking and breaking bits out wasn't chewed up like that!
It'll be interesting to see if you can come up with any reason for it.
 

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@Punch - you'll like the new clutch! And as for that hub... :crazy: I've not seen or even been shown one that looked like that. Even the one out of my McIntosh that was cracking and breaking bits out wasn't chewed up like that!
It'll be interesting to see if you can come up with any reason for it.
I will take some pics when it is dismantled.

I will also show it to some mates involved in the industry to see what they think.
The hub has done about 100,000 km or so and the plates that would have been in there, apart from 100 km with Newfren at a track were OEM.

The new clutch kit was shipped from FBG in two days.
Just waiting for the delivery now.

Thumbs up to FBG for service.
 

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I recall looking online at the time, and from what I could gather then, 20K out of a set of clutch plates was not considered unusual
Yes this is quite often the case with lack of information, it is also some of the reason I stopped listening to paid moto journalists. Back in the early 90's many magazine testers would take a ducati dry clutch bike to the drag strip because it was how they determined how powerful a bike was as dyno's were not plentiful yet. Many tests would state that the dry clutches needed to be replaced by the end of the testing, this was simply not true. Yes changing the plates did make the clutch as new again but so would simply servicing the plates, I think this is where it came into the belief that dry clutch plates cannot last for many miles.

Now yes the plates do need replacing but if serviced regularly they should easily last tens of thousands of miles and a slipping dry clutch is much less common reason to change them out.
#1 Bling
#2 noise
#3 chatter
#4 performance
#5 slipping

I do see many cases of internet lore that guides bike owners some good some not so good. It is what we have so we live with both and the trick is to determine good from bad information. Keeping in mind there always will be outliers that challenge conventional wisdom even in this day of information at our fingertips I find new things weekly.
 

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Been searching and researching (aka procrastinating!)

99.9% sure I will order a complete Ducabike kit from Liam in NZ. Hub, basket, plates, sponges, pressure plate and bearing, etc.

EVR 48T alloy plates and basket will probably add up to AUD$ 400 shipped, then when I add the things I probably should change, it would be a similar price to the Ducabike kit.

Thanks for all the help.
I did order it and it turned up in no time at all - 6 days order to delivery.

If it works as well as it looks, it will be great.
In my excitement to order something, when it turned up, I realised I had not sorted a new hub and Cush rubbers.

@ ducvet, to my surprise it was packed in spongelike material and a bonus set of springs:smile2:

Just need to order the hub and Cush rubbers = damn!
Massive differences in new OEM hub prices and some with stupid freight costs, unless they are flying them out for hand delivery.
 

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I did order it and it turned up in no time at all - 6 days order to delivery.

If it works as well as it looks, it will be great.
In my excitement to order something, when it turned up, I realised I had not sorted a new hub and Cush rubbers.

@ ducvet, to my surprise it was packed in spongelike material and a bonus set of springs:smile2:

Just need to order the hub and Cush rubbers = damn!
Massive differences in new OEM hub prices and some with stupid freight costs, unless they are flying them out for hand delivery.
This'll make ya laugh then - I've been working on my tractor (an old Case 1290) which had been making nasty mechanical noises. Turns out that the big end bearing on #3 had spun, and was dying rapidly - and the piston was contacting the head. The crank is fairly well worn, and being an old tractor, parts are not that easy to find - particularly under size bearings, so I looked around online for a new crank. Found one. NZ$750. Freight to NZ from the US (about 22kgs) - NZ$1996! Yup, I could get a return ticket for a bit less than that. As it turns out, a little later, I found a site that listed a range of under size bearings for the big ends and mains. Now to get the crank out - which means splitting the tractor in half. :(
 

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Punch

I would certainly consider a used inner hub as the cost should be cheap and normally they do not wear like yours did, knowing how yours wore you could pick a good one from ebay off of a 749,999,1000,monster etc and get the last upgraded hub so no more wear from the star washer. This should also solve the shipping issue. The hub itself only runs about $150 us and the cush rubbers and inner steel do not need changing 90% of the time. make sure the roll pin is still there and you are good to go.

Steve
I do know of people who have taken "vacations" to ship parts as it was cheaper to fly and bring the item, you would figure there would be a service to have someone be that Currier just for such circumstances. Maybe that will be my next job, I could think of worse things to do than sitting on a flight to deliver parts...lol
You might also check local engine shops as there are some who will weld up a crankshaft and re-grind so you can use standard journals again, not cheap but probably better than shipping costs listed.
 

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Punch

I would certainly consider a used inner hub as the cost should be cheap and normally they do not wear like yours did, knowing how yours wore you could pick a good one from ebay off of a 749,999,1000,monster etc and get the last upgraded hub so no more wear from the star washer. This should also solve the shipping issue. The hub itself only runs about $150 us and the cush rubbers and inner steel do not need changing 90% of the time. make sure the roll pin is still there and you are good to go.
Agree totally - just a matter of finding one. I will decide on what I need after dismantling, but from what I can see so far, no problem with the internal parts of the hub, but will report back.
I know I need a new hub and will simply buy the Cush stuff and do them whilst I am in there.

ducvet;6641633 Steve I do know of people who have taken "vacations" to ship parts as it was cheaper to fly and bring the item said:
Two things here.
I helped, well did for my son a few years ago, with a well known Japanese brand single that is popular/manufactured in India.

Via a mate, with me getting all the correct part numbers, and his business friend (yes business making a profit) in Singapore, exactly the same parts and same part numbers and packaging were about 60% lower than Oz.

@ ducvet - do Curriers deliver faster than couriers? Touchee and one all>:)

All that aside I just want buy/obtain a new/used hub to get get me back on the 900SS without forfeiting a testicle.
 

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........Yes changing the plates did make the clutch as new again but so would simply servicing the plates.
How do you service the plates? Take them out, give them a clean with Prepsol / wax and grease remover, clean the dust out of everywhere, and reassemble for another xx thousand kms?
 

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How do you service the plates?
Steels need to be flat (unless they are cupped spring plates) so using something like a scotchbrite wheel to remove any high spots. High spots are often seen as blue or purple dots from debris getting mashed into the plate after falling between them. I re-surface all steels until they are uniform on both sides even the cupped spring plates.

Fibers are often the source of the debris with age as the tabs wear , break off and fall between the clutch plates. If you dress up the tabs so they are square with no curled up material you just bought yourself usually 5000ish miles before you need to do it again. Yes each time you remove material you will have increased the speed at which it will reoccur as the more gap the more damage to tabs and baskets but you should replace them as a set anyway like a chain and sprockets.

If you blow out the clutch dust do it outside and with a respirator as the dust may kill you if you breath enough of it, not worth the chance I prefer to clean it out with parts cleaner and a rag so you do not breath it.
 

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Steve
I do know of people who have taken "vacations" to ship parts as it was cheaper to fly and bring the item, you would figure there would be a service to have someone be that Currier just for such circumstances. Maybe that will be my next job, I could think of worse things to do than sitting on a flight to deliver parts...lol
You might also check local engine shops as there are some who will weld up a crankshaft and re-grind so you can use standard journals again, not cheap but probably better than shipping costs listed.
Yeah - the shipping cost was a bit OTT. Especially when I can source the same crank from the UK (for 250 GBP), and they'll ship it (Courier) for 79 GBP! And yes, I double checked that price. And that included a bunch of other parts (piston, rings, all bearings, gaskets, etc needed). It seems to be something to do with shipping out of the US - a lot of things have horrendous shipping costs associated.

I've already been onto a local engine reconditioner. They'll regrind the crank - for around NZ$500. But they can't do it until next year sometime. The new crank from the UK is 250 GBP - which currently works out to NZ$480 - but they're out of stock for the next 4 weeks...

Then I found one being wrecked (a later higher spec model) that has a reasonably good engine, with turbo and 85hp (up from my current 53hp) that'll pretty much bolt in for NZ$2000.

ARRRGH! :) So, still trying to figure out the best plan, and waiting for more replies.
 

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I have not forgotten this thread as that is not my way and really appreciate the feedback, opinions etc.

So a quick update - the Ducabike kit turned up in no time with great communication from Julie at FBG.

I stopped by on my two hour bus/train commute on the way home to Frasers near Strathfield to buy a clutch hub and 6 Cush rubbers. The Cush rubbers were just an "investment" for my own peace of mind.

The slight delay in posting results is due to my sort of permanent loaned rattle gun battery being cactus and not having a 32mm socket.

Solution - borrowed a functional rattle gun and 32mm socket from my mate who's rattle gun is my "permanent" loaner. (the 32 mm is 6 point and my preference over 12).

Will all be done this weekend and will post results.
 
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