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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Apr2017 – Ducati 939SS SuperSport

Seacoast Sport Cycle openhouse
==========
The event was the open house for Seacoast's move to a new and larger location. It's not far from the old place, but is much more roomy and open.

They had a red "S" model available for demo. Ohlins and quickshifter. No touring pack yet, though. I'll have to look at that another time. Here are my first impressions.

The engine. Surprisingly strong and capable. I’ve ridden quite a few bikes with more power than this that didn’t feel as strong. It’s got a *really* meaty torque curve, and responds very well and smoothly to requests.

Clutch, Transmission, and Neutral are all very familiar and easy to operate. The clutch is a cable, which some people have complained about, but it is lighter than the typical Ducati hydraulic unit, and has a good feel. Especially given the quickshifter option, meaning the clutch will mostly be used on startup and very heavy traffic, a hydraulic clutch would be unnecessary expense and complication. Using the quickshifter is fun, and mostly smooth. There’s a bit of jerkiness in the 1-2 and 2-1 shifts with it, but after that it’s smooth sailing all the way. Others have complained about a hard-to-find neutral, but I had exactly zero trouble with it. I’m impressed.

Drivetrain otherwise is the normal chain and sprockets. Easy and efficient.

The brakes are the usual Ducati Brembo equipment, strong and predictable. ABS, of course, is provided, and is adjustable (including to “off”, if you’re so inclined).

Handling and suspension are precise and easy to place. The relaxed ergonomics help with this, making it comfortable to use the bike as needed and wanted. The clip-ons are high, well above the triple, and might as well be handlebars. They are plenty wide enough and have a comfortable placement; steering feel is light, but feedback is good. It has 3 riding modes. I just used “sport”, as I have learned that suits me best on most bikes. It can be easily changed while moving, if that’s your bag.

The riding position is a tad sportier than a Monster, but not by much. It’s designed for regular use, which is the point of the whole machine – a sportbike you can use very day, for everything. It felt like real miles were possible on this thing; several hundred a day easily. I was remarkably impressed by the comfort of the seat. I can’t speak to the passenger perch yet, but the rider had a very nice place to sit, in a natty suede.

Fit, finish, and quality felt high. The controls worked well and were easy to find and operate. Ducati is one of the best at this. Some changes were made to the start switches and the toggles for the electronics, but nothing difficult. The fairing bridges to the tank were a little odd, but didn’t hurt anything. Just a weird aesthetic choice.

The fairing controlled the wind well, but not *too* well. I like the wind, and am used to a naked bike, so I just left the windshield on low, and it was great. Other people may want more wind protection, but I’m good with not having too much of that. The mirrors (another thing others have complained about) were OK. I did not experience the buzzing and blurring that others have reported. About a third of the mirrors were full of elbows, but that’s completely normal for a sportbike.

Aesthetically, it’s a nice looking bike. Not outstandingly gorgeous like, say, a 998, but it will show up well at the Starbucks, if that’s your thing.

The electronics are modern. ABS, TC, riding modes, etc. I’m not a big fan of this overall; aside from the great safety advance of ABS, I could take or leave the rest of it. You can configure everything to match the riding modes automatically. It’s nice that the rider is trusted enough to be allowed to turn them off if he likes.

I think what I liked the most was that the whole bike felt familiar and user-friendly. I had very little need to acclimate, to adapt to the bike, to figure out how anything was going to act. I felt like I could get on it and put it to good use right away, which is a good testament to the attention to detail and development that went into it.

This goes right onto my short list of potential Monster replacements, if/when the time comes.

PhilB
 

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I tested the Supersport too. I liked it but it has its qualms......Oh also it is the Supersport not ever to be referred to as the SS. Ducati is a German owned company and majority of Germans in Germany are still sensitive about the whole Nazi thing. Understandably
 

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I Too Test Rode The "New " 2017 Supersport.

The Good: Power, torque, brakes, comfort, suspension, the stock exhaust sound, and the Quick-Shifter. My arthritic hands really appreciated the latter, as the normally Every-Ducati stiff clutch was eliminated from the equation via clutchless shifts (if desired).

The Not-So Good: The S model (Ohlins suspension, Quick-Shifter, Traction-Control) is $14,995 (my 2002 Supersport was $5500, by comparison). Also, I have yet to meet a Ride-By-Wire throttle that did not have lag, from the time you twisted the throttle, to the time the engine responded. Sketchy EFI also plagued this particular bike, and combined with the Ride-by-Wire system, it was not very reassuring. Another negative was gobs of engine heat on the lower legs, and today was only in the very low-70's. On a Summer day, this bike will kill with engine heat. Also, the bike just had an overall plastic, toy-like feeling. In essence, the bike did not really say much to me.

Overall Impression: The bike just looks like a Ducati in search of a name and a purpose. If I had never ridden an air-cooled Supersport this bike would be Tits. However, since I have ridden real Ducati Supersports (1993, 1996, 2002, 2005 models), I have to conclude this bike should be called the ST5 (continuing the lost Sport Tourer family of bikes), as it lacks any of the original qualities, and character, of all Ducati Supersports. All Supersports just have a way of talking to the rider that this bike completely lacked.

In regards to the group photo, with the help of Red Pato, we managed to gather together three-generations of Supersports (a Bevel-Drive would have completed the photo, nicely), which also provided me the chance to ride, and rank, the generations in order of desirability. And, based upon that experience, I would take the 1996 900SP, then my own 2002 750, and finally the 2017 Supersport.

Sorry, Ducati. I really tried to like the 2017 version, however, based upon riding all three bikes today, I have to say you really did get it right in 1996.
 

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The Good: Power, torque, brakes, comfort, suspension, the stock exhaust sound, and the Quick-Shifter. My arthritic hands really appreciated the latter, as the normally Every-Ducati stiff clutch was eliminated from the equation via clutchless shifts (if desired).

The Not-So Good: The S model (Ohlins suspension, Quick-Shifter, Traction-Control) is $14,995 (my 2002 Supersport was $5500, by comparison). Also, I have yet to meet a Ride-By-Wire throttle that did not have lag, from the time you twisted the throttle, to the time the engine responded. Sketchy EFI also plagued this particular bike, and combined with the Ride-by-Wire system, it was not very reassuring. Another negative was gobs of engine heat on the lower legs, and today was only in the very low-70's. On a Summer day, this bike will kill with engine heat. Also, the bike just had an overall plastic, toy-like feeling. In essence, the bike did not really say much to me.

Overall Impression: The bike just looks like a Ducati in search of a name and a purpose. If I had never ridden an air-cooled Supersport this bike would be Tits. However, since I have ridden real Ducati Supersports (1993, 1996, 2002, 2005 models), I have to conclude this bike should be called the ST5 (continuing the lost Sport Tourer family of bikes), as it lacks any of the original qualities, and character, of all Ducati Supersports. All Supersports just have a way of talking to the rider that this bike completely lacked.

In regards to the group photo, with the help of Red Pato, we managed to gather together three-generations of Supersports (a Bevel-Drive would have completed the photo, nicely), which also provided me the chance to ride, and rank, the generations in order of desirability. And, based upon that experience, I would take the 1996 900SP, then my own 2002 750, and finally the 2017 Supersport.

Sorry, Ducati. I really tried to like the 2017 version, however, based upon riding all three bikes today, I have to say you really did get it right in 1996.
Well, each of us has their opinion. I come from a 1999 SS 900, which at that time cost me $10,500 new (not $5500), so $15,000 for the S model with Ohlins, a quickshifter and seat cowl in 2017 seems reasonable to me. I think Ducati "nailed it" on this bike - it really is the spiritial successor to the air-cooled Supersports, but updated and improved. Easy to ride, narrow, comfortable, torquey engine, very nimble, great brakes and looks like a Superbike - this is my next bike.
 

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Socalduc
Okay the $5500 is a bit unfair as that is clearly a used price, Give the new bike about 10 years and it too will be $5500. Riding them all back to back is great but the older bikes have been tweaked over the years and the new one has yet to be "fixed". Given time we will see how they all stack up.

We also get to see some long term real world results as people buy and live with these bikes to see how they fit what we have planned for them. I still vote for Phil to buy one and put it through his normal mileage so we get to see how it does in comparison
Reliability
owner costs
comfort (including heat from that 4-valve motor)
Most importantly does it capture you so that it becomes a bike you will keep for over 20 years and more than 100,000 miles.

Some of us cannot do that testing so we need the PhilBoncer evaluations for real un-biased reporting.
That said buying a first year bike may lead to more issues that a later bike it would be good to get the info sooner than later, nudge,nudge:grin2:

Socalduc
I do agree with you on your ranking but that may change with time on these bikes, for now I am more of an air cooled fan for my street bikes as the only thing this new bike does for me at this point is NOT be a 10 year old bike. I am fine with older used bikes so that holds little sway at this point.
 

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Thanks, Phil and SoCalDuc for the reviews. I'm highly interested in the Supersport. I don't think I'll give up my 996 for it, but if I traded in my YZF and my Falco, there would be extra room in the garage... (May be I shouldn't give the Falco up...). I dunno. Anyway, that's off track. Like I said, I'm highly interested in the Supersport as an everyday usable ride. And if it's as upright as I think it is, my wife might like it as well (she rides a 620 Monster and prefers it's ergos).

I've read mixed reviews on the Supersport, like "I wish it had more power" and then on the other side, "This thing has plenty of power". For me, if it's as quick as my 996 with +4 at the rear sprocket, it'll be plenty fast. And the ability to add luggage to the Supersport is a HUGE draw for me. Surely it will run cooler than my 996... (LOL)

Thanks again!
Micah
 
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Apr2017 – Ducati 939SS SuperSport

Seacoast Sport Cycle openhouse
==========


Clutch, Transmission, and Neutral are all very familiar and easy to operate. The clutch is a cable, which some people have complained about, but it is lighter than the typical Ducati hydraulic unit, and has a good feel. Especially given the quickshifter option, meaning the clutch will mostly be used on startup and very heavy traffic, a hydraulic clutch would be unnecessary expense and complication. Using the quickshifter is fun, and mostly smooth. There’s a bit of jerkiness in the 1-2 and 2-1 shifts with it, but after that it’s smooth sailing all the way. Others have complained about a hard-to-find neutral, but I had exactly zero trouble with it. I’m impressed.




PhilB
I was under the impression that quick shifters are for up shifts under full throttle conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I was under the impression that quick shifters are for up shifts under full throttle conditions.
There are different types. Aftermarket quickshifters are usually limited to upshifts, and work best at high throttle. But OEM units are integrated into the bike's electronics these days, and are more sophisticated. BMW quickshifters go up or down, without adjusting the throttle. It feels weird to shift without moving your hands at all. The quickshifter on this 939SS also shifts up or down; on upshifts you just hit the shift lever, on downshifts you close the throttle and hit the shifter, and it automatically blips to match the downshift. Pretty nifty.

PhilB
 

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I've read mixed reviews on the Supersport, like "I wish it had more power" and then on the other side, "This thing has plenty of power". For me, if it's as quick as my 996 with +4 at the rear sprocket, it'll be plenty fast. And the ability to add luggage to the Supersport is a HUGE draw for me. Surely it will run cooler than my 996... (LOL)

Thanks again!
Micah
People often confuse the usage of "power" with "torque." This is a "high torque" engine so I suspect it's going to pull like a freight train from 2500 RPM, but wheeze out at 8500 RPM, which is where your top speed limit will be. Most people prefer this for street/city/canyon riding, but won't get you down the Mulsanne Straight very fast.

The stock 996 made 122 HP and 68 ft-Lbs of torque, this new 939 one is reportedly pumping out 113 HP and 71 ft-lbs of torque. Put a matching final drive ratio on it and it's going to feel familiar.
 

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People often confuse the usage of "power" with "torque." This is a "high torque" engine so I suspect it's going to pull like a freight train from 2500 RPM, but wheeze out at 8500 RPM, which is where your top speed limit will be. Most people prefer this for street/city/canyon riding, but won't get you down the Mulsanne Straight very fast.

The stock 996 made 122 HP and 68 ft-Lbs of torque, this new 939 one is reportedly pumping out 113 HP and 71 ft-lbs of torque. Put a matching final drive ratio on it and it's going to feel familiar.
Ducati twins are not made to pull from 2500 RPM. It may start to pull at around 4500 but the sweet spot will surely be above 6000. If you lug any duc at 2500 for any amount of time you will cause engine damage. This is not a harley
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I want to see that thing hit 400k.

EDIT: Keep the Monster, but I agree with Ducvet that you should get a Supersport to test out for the benefit of the rest of us.
lol. I'd like to see 500K, but we'll see how it goes. That would still be 15 or 20 years out from here, though.

But I'll happily accept donations from anyone who wants to contribute to the "get a Supersport to test out for the benefit of the rest of us" fund. I'm also looking at getting a sport-tourer for two-up with the missus, so I'll also take any donations to the "get a MOTUS MST-R to test out for the benefit of the rest of us" fund as well. :)

PhilB
 

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Apr2017 – Ducati 939SS SuperSport

Seacoast Sport Cycle openhouse
==========
The event was the open house for Seacoast's move to a new and larger location. It's not far from the old place, but is much more roomy and open.
I was there for that! I demo'd a Monster 1200S, got a couple of hot dogs and picked up some Held Airstream II Gloves. Definitely worth the trip!

Going back in a couple to check out the new Tuono fleet coming in.
 

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Socalduc
Okay the $5500 is a bit unfair as that is clearly a used price, Give the new bike about 10 years and it too will be $5500. Riding them all back to back is great but the older bikes have been tweaked over the years and the new one has yet to be "fixed". Given time we will see how they all stack up.

We also get to see some long term real world results as people buy and live with these bikes to see how they fit what we have planned for them. I still vote for Phil to buy one and put it through his normal mileage so we get to see how it does in comparison
Reliability
owner costs
comfort (including heat from that 4-valve motor)
Most importantly does it capture you so that it becomes a bike you will keep for over 20 years and more than 100,000 miles.

Some of us cannot do that testing so we need the PhilBoncer evaluations for real un-biased reporting.
That said buying a first year bike may lead to more issues that a later bike it would be good to get the info sooner than later, nudge,nudge:grin2:

Socalduc
I do agree with you on your ranking but that may change with time on these bikes, for now I am more of an air cooled fan for my street bikes as the only thing this new bike does for me at this point is NOT be a 10 year old bike. I am fine with older used bikes so that holds little sway at this point.
With all due respect, Ducvet - You are completely full of it.

Before you pee your shorts, allow me espouse.

First, the price of my 2002 Duc referred to was new (not used), sans tax & license. So, you are wrong there.

Second (and I am paraphrasing you here), older bikes have been tweaked over the years, so reserve opinions on the new Supersport until the bike is "Fixed?" What kind of drunken gibberish is that?!

Third, I don't know who "Philboncer" is, nor do I believe their opinion is "Unbiased," or any more valid than my own. So, you are in the bushes there, as well. However, if you have the need to be led around by the thoughts of others, and are wholly incapable of forging your own, adult opinions, well, feel free, my friend.

Fourth, in regards to your final paragraph, "New" is definitely not a selling feature, unless one has more money than brains.

And, finally, if you don't have the wherewithal to go out and do side-by-side comparisons of motorcycles, me thinks you are the one who is showing the "Bias." However, I am a fair-minded person, and when you do go out and conduct some real-world evaluating of your own, I would read your findings and take your words into courteous consideration.

Till then, respectfully bite me!
 

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thanks for the reviews up to now. the heat that the motor emits is a downer for me (so cal resident too), if it's anything like the original Panigale's then no thank you. i like the styling although it looks like more of the same to me (origami-like) and the ergos sound like something i'd really enjoy. i too think i'd be satisfied enough with the power given that i own a Multi, but i wonder if it would be sufficient enough for me being my only bike.

looking forward to giving it a try.
 

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LOL socal

I think you may have taken my comments a bit as a slam and I can assure you they were not. Easy there fella :wink2:

A 2002 750 sport retail price was $7995.00 if you bought one at below retail by $2000 good for you but know that it was not full retail as the new bike prices you listed were.

What kind of drunken gibberish is that?!
Sadly sober, so some context. Lets take your supersport.
Most owners removed the exhaust and installed something lighter and louder. Changed gearing and then started personalizing for what the bikes use would be such as bags or suspension work. I am just saying 99% of my customers here as well as when I was at the dealership had no interest in keeping the bikes stock and in many ways IMPROVED them. Just as will the new owners of the new bikes, we just do not know yet what those improvements will be as there are not enough owners putting miles on them to know what needs (or wants) improving.

This Brings me to the legend that is "Philboncer"
Phil is one of those people who seems to live on the bike as he has racked up more miles on his 1990's monster than most of us will put on our Ducati over the bikes lifetime (well over 100,000 last I knew). Why do I want to know how the bike is for Phil? Because he will be the one paying the bills for maintenance and paying attention to how the bike holds up over time and mileage, I know of no publication or factory that does long term testing any where near the mileage that any high mile rider will put on (Gary Egan was one for ducati).

I do agree that you should not take any one opinion and every one has bias, thats a given. But at the same time I look forward to taking as many opinions into account and then back it up with personal experience before forming my own, I do trust opinions here from real owners much more than sales brochures or magazine tests that all too often are nothing more that re-printed sales brochures bought and paid for with advertising dollars. Yes I am a skeptic so all I look for is trends of proof.

"new" is a feature to many people. My business now is the older bikes (out of warranty) but when I was at the dealer there were many owners who would not consider owning a bike (Ducati or otherwise) that was not New and /or under warranty. Some it is knowing they will get rid off the bike before any service is required so ownership costs are known others do not trust a bike with no warranty as costs can get pricey. Another group usually the "top shelf crowd" want whatever is new and cutting edge and as soon as it is not they change to the new model. It is all good, everyone gets to ride what they like and that's the way it should be.

As to side by side comparisons I do get to ride quite a few as it is an occupational hazard, I have to ride most everything through the shop so I do have a decent amount of experience (if you want I can let you know whats in the shop now). I have NOT ridden everything but am always happy to take a ride on a different bike, the new supersport will be added to that list soon enough. Right now on paper there is nothing about it I am excited by it would be far from the first that I owned after saying I did not like them at first glance.

Again sorry if you perceived my post as hurtful it was not intended as such.

respectfully consider yourself bitten
 

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Discussion Starter #17
With all due respect, Ducvet - You are completely full of it.
Saying "With all due respect" does not magically make a disrespectful comment into a respectful one. Ducvet is a *very* experienced Ducati owner and mechanic. His reputation precedes him. Yours does not.

First, the price of my 2002 Duc referred to was new (not used), sans tax & license. So, you are wrong there.
But still not comparable. Comparing some crazy leftover half-price deal to current MSRP for a bike that's in demand is not honest.

My M900 was $10K out the door in 1993. That's over $15K in today's dollars, so by purchasing power, the new 939SS isn't any more expensive than my Monster was, for a *much* more sophisticated and capable machine.

I don't know who "Philboncer" is, nor do I believe their opinion is "Unbiased," or any more valid than my own. So, you are in the bushes there, as well. However, if you have the need to be led around by the thoughts of others, and are wholly incapable of forging your own, adult opinions, well, feel free, my friend.
...This Brings me to the legend that is "Philboncer"

Phil is one of those people who seems to live on the bike as he has racked up more miles on his 1990's monster than most of us will put on our Ducati over the bikes lifetime (well over 100,000 last I knew). Why do I want to know how the bike is for Phil? Because he will be the one paying the bills for maintenance and paying attention to how the bike holds up over time and mileage, I know of no publication or factory that does long term testing any where near the mileage that any high mile rider will put on (Gary Egan was one for ducati).
Slight correction -- I don't actually spend a ridiculous amount of time on my bike; I just keep them a long time. I do about 10 to 14K miles a year on average, which is more than most, but not a crazy amount. I've just had my Monster for 24 years now, so I put on the mileage over time. I'm riding it from OH to NH this weekend, it will turn over 260K miles on the trip.

Gary Eagan put well over 200K miles on an ST4 in 5 years, and I'm sure has gotten a few other Ducs over 100K.

... in regards to your final paragraph, "New" is definitely not a selling feature, unless one has more money than brains.
"New" may not be a selling feature for *you*, but it is for most people. So your statement here is not only disrespectful to the majority of Ducati owners, but is also not representative of reality

Till then, respectfully bite me!
Nice.

PhilB
 

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Saying "With all due respect" does not magically make a disrespectful comment into a respectful one. Ducvet is a *very* experienced Ducati owner and mechanic. His reputation precedes him. Yours does not.
Again sorry if you perceived my post as hurtful it was not intended as such.

respectfully consider yourself bitten
With all due respect, Ducvet - You are completely full of it.

Before you pee your shorts, allow me espouse...


Till then, respectfully bite me!
I'm enjoying this thread for a new reason. :)
 

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I'm enjoying this thread for a new reason.
lol
I get this level of trash talk from my kids, Yes I do enjoy it then too. No worrys as it is easy to be misunderstood on the intenet and I am not one who needs ducati.ms to be a safe space. If Socal thinks I was out of line it is his right to call me out on it, we are all adults here.

With all due respect, Ducvet - You are completely full of it.
If I did not know better I would guess I was married to SocalDuc given that quote >:)
Except she would have not given any respect.

Phil
You may just put on an average amount of miles for you but I can tell you you are not in the average mile category for most of NewEngland, There have been a few riders I have seen put on 15,000 miles a year but the average is probably closer to 3,000-6000. This is why there are so many low mile bikes, best I could do was a 18,000 mile year but I was young and single then. now I mostly get test rides and track days.
 

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Ducvet, you are one Stand-Up Human. Thank you for your thorough reply.

As for the "New" SS, and "New" stuff being put onto them, I really would not change anything on the new bike save for the useless mirrors and maybe another windscreen. Everything else was livable. Also, as much as I don't care for the stock exhaust looks (the sound is great, though!), a new Akrapovic system is $3000.00!!! How does one spell O-U-C-H? Let me count the ways...

Yes, I did pay what I did for my 750, as it was languishing in the DNA Warehouse, being the Dark's were just not in demand. I had never owned a Duc before, so at that price-point, I popped for it. And, I am a far happier motorcyclist for it. Not many bikes talk to a rider, so when we find one, hang onto it forever!

As for customizing, well, that was part of the fun of being a Duc owner, plus there were just so many cool things to add to our bikes, wallet thickness withstanding.

Cheers.
 
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