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Are you excited for the V4 Multistrada to be announced on Oct 15?

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 55.3%
  • No

    Votes: 12 31.6%
  • I coulda had a V8...

    Votes: 5 13.2%
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All V4s are going to have a traditional double swingarm? I'll take that with a grain of salt since it's just a spy report, but if that's true I think Ducati will regret it.

Single sided is iconic for the brand. The trellis frame is slowly going away, too. I guess they'll be telling us about the benefits of valve springs next.
How very prescient.
 

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Yeah that was kind of where the confusion came from. Still not really sold on this bike, I think they should have concentrated on making a proper sport tourer to compete with the R1250RT and FJR1300, only more sport oriented.
I completely agree. The original Multistrada was at the sport end of the sport-touring spectrum. It was light and had quick steering with just enough creature comforts to make distance possible. Ever since then, it has creeped towards the touring end of the spectrum, especially with the 1260, but still stayed a sport-tourer and it stayed a Ducati. The new ad copy makes it sound like a bike for Long Way wannabes and Gold Wing owners who value "smooth" and no maintenance over all else.
I will give the bike a test ride, but I am cautiously pessimistic. I'm in the market for a replacement for my '13. The rumored updated Superduke GT for '21 looks like it may have the upper hand.
 

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Yeah that was kind of where the confusion came from. Still not really sold on this bike, I think they should have concentrated on making a proper sport tourer to compete with the R1250RT and FJR1300, only more sport oriented.
I think they're going to put this in the supersport at some point and then that's going to be the insane sport tourer. I would love that.
 

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I'm very impressed with the explanation of the new engine and, desmo or non-desmo, I find it hard to believe they'd be making a step backwards in terms of rider experience. If they make an engine that doesn't inspire as the previous one it will be a major flop on probably the most successful bike lineup they have, don't think that will happen.

I'm aligned with the @porkrind and @HoodooGuru , if it tastes good I don't care much about the type of ingredients used. At least from and engine perspective it seems it will be an improvement, better torque curve, less heat, more power, lower center of gravity....




Million dollar decision here.
  • 1260S GT: super-machine, proven platform with most issues already addressed, very fun and sporty
  • V4: next-level machine, untested platform that will likely be improved in the near future, apparently a wonderful engine but unknown definitions like the front wheel size and swingarm. Price will likely be higher than the 1260S
With the official launch in Nov and arrival of the V4's here in the US I see the following 2 possibilities regarding price:
1- V4 will be considered a hit and the remaining 1260's in stock will have better deal conditions
2- V4 will be considered a flop and there will be a race to buy the remaining 1260's in stock, prices will be probably full MRSP and not much negotiation margin

I don't think you'd be badly served with either option. In your shoes I'd likely have bought the 1260S already, and would be drooling on the V4 once it comes out.....
With Ducati focused on chasing Long Way wannabes and making a "smooth" bike with no maintenance , the answer might be "KTM Superduke GT." It doesn't have desmo either, but it's still a twin with a trellis frame and a ferocious, on road sporting character.
An electric Panigale


I guess the question is, what makes a Ducati, a Ducati? It has to be more than just the badge on the side, we've seen plenty of examples of badge engineering and where it leads. It's not because they're faster, they objectively are not. Rider feel? Ok, but that's an entirely subjective thing, some people think Honda feels the best, or some other brand.

I've always believed what makes a Ducati is the engine. The unique take on ICE design, the fact that they've stuck with it all these years, keeping it the equal of traditional sprung valves, at least in performance. That engine generates a raw, mechanical sound produced by no other motorcycle, no other engine design on earth. Other builders have used SSSA, and trellis frames, but Desmo is what made Ducati, Ducati. It was the hook, what made them a unique brand.

It seems to me based upon statements made by the CEO recently, they've decided to re-invent themselves as a company whose hook is superior electronics. I wish them the best with that, but competing on electronics while letting the rest of your product become just another beige commodity, is a race to the bottom.
🙃What has also made Ducati is a focus on sport. Less face it the original Scramblers were less than successful and the current Scramblers are retro pieces. Every other successful Ducati has focused on track and/or road performance. The focus on the new Multistrada is off-road, "smooth" and crazy long maintenance intervals. Absolutely none of that appeals to me. I want the best sport -tourer (with the emphasis on SPORT) on the planet. Through the first two generations, the Multistrada was just that. The 1260 started shifting a little towards the touring end, but stayed mostly true to being a Ducati and a great sport-tourer. Now, at least in marketing speak, they've completely lost the plot on what Ducati is and what a Multistrada is. they should call it the Audistrada. 🙃 I'll give it a test ride, but I expect to be disappointed.
 

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My '73 750GT was destroyed by a car.
Went to buy another one and the fools had changed from bevel to belts.
Also replaced a perfectly good wet clutch with a dry clutch.
Ruined, all the tradition gone.

My biggest problem with the V4 Multi will be cost.
Round my way a 1260GT is $32,400, Pikes Peak $39,100, Panigale V4s is $40,390
Suspect the V4s multi will be around $38,000.
For comparison a 2020 KTM 1290 Super Duke R is $28,095.

There will be 3 models, Multi V4, Multi V4s and Enduro V4.
The 1260 models are dropped and the 950 will be renamed Multi V2, also 3 models, V2, V2s and Enduro V2.
 

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I don’t think a test ride will sway me . Been dreaming of this bike since 2010 when I feel in love the the Aprilia’s V4 and rode my 17 Tuono RR to dealer for test rides on Panigale V4 and the V2. I left with my Tuono and bought a 17 Factory Tuono instead . Just sold that Wednesday and now leaning towards the 950 (s or Enduro )
I rode the 1260 and would have to change some Regis if possible to get my knees out of the frame, wasn’t comfortable. Owned a 2011 Multi and miss it but not the dash !

Will trade my C5 for 15upMulti
 

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Borrowed from Wikipedia for Gran Turismo. Seems to fit what Ducati is promoting if you correlate the car to the bike.

The terms "grand tourer", "gran turismo", "grande routière", and "GT" are among the most misused terms in motoring.[3] The grand touring designation generally "means motoring at speed, in style, safety, and comfort." "Purists define "gran turismo" as the enjoyment, excitement and comfort of open-road touring."[19]

According to Sam Dawson, News Editor of Classic Cars (magazine), "the ideal is of a car with the ability to cross a continent at speed and in comfort yet provide driving thrills when demanded" and it should exhibit the following:
  • The engines "should be able to cope with cruising comfortably at the upper limits on all continental roads without drawbacks or loss of usable power."
  • "Ideally, the GT car should have been devised by its progenitors as a Grand Tourer, with all associated considerations in mind."
  • "It should be able to transport at least two in comfort with their luggage"
  • The design, both "inside and out, should be geared toward complete control by the driver."
  • Its "chassis and suspension provide suitable handling and roadholding on all routes" during travels.
 

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I like Audistrada...I blame them for this.
I think the radar gimmick is definitely "here's this thing... stick it somewhere and sell it". IMO it makes no sense on ANY Ducati model, including the Multi (which is shit on slab).

Put it on the K1600 and you've got something.
 
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My '73 750GT was destroyed by a car.
Went to buy another one and the fools had changed from bevel to belts.
Also replaced a perfectly good wet clutch with a dry clutch.
Ruined, all the tradition gone.

My biggest problem with the V4 Multi will be cost.
Round my way a 1260GT is $32,400, Pikes Peak $39,100, Panigale V4s is $40,390
Suspect the V4s multi will be around $38,000.
For comparison a 2020 KTM 1290 Super Duke R is $28,095.

There will be 3 models, Multi V4, Multi V4s and Enduro V4.
The 1260 models are dropped and the 950 will be renamed Multi V2, also 3 models, V2, V2s and Enduro V2.
I'm not a total stick in the mud. Change that makes sense and is in keeping with the brand can work. I like the Panigale V4 engine. It was necessitated by twins no longer being able to compete in roadracing. That is completely in Ducati's brand. It's still 90 degrees and the reverse rotation crankshaft shows innovation for racing and is not just the other guy's V4.
The move away from trellis frames started with good intentions, but largely failed. KTM has proven that a trellis frame can win races at the highest level. Maybe Ducati should have backtracked.
The changes for the Multistrada are for extreme low maintenance, "smooth" character and offroad riding. Value engineering might also be part of it. None of these are the Ducati brand.
To summarize: change that follows the brand ethos is good. Change that moves away from that brand or waters it down is not.
On cost, that just exacerbates things. Once you convert, your AUD costs are pretty close to what the expected USD prices will be. I am completely prepared to pay that much for my next motorcycle....if I get close to exactly what I want. I won't pay that for a GS wannabe. I'll save a few thousand and get a KTM or maybe even a lightly used 1260.
 

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Conventional swingarm is superior in every way, nobody needs desmodromic valves anymore. Ducati is thinking ahead, not staying bogged down by useless tradition
Of course nobody "needs them". Nobody needs more than 25 hp either. Maybe we should all but Royal Enfield Bullets. Nonetheless, positive valve actuation (whether mechanical/desmo or pneumatic) is a better solution than valve springs, even with modern metallurgy. Ducati still uses it in their racing machinery and the top levels of racing have all moved away from springs. The next step will be fully pneumatic or servo controlled valve trains without cams.
 

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God I hope so, its the only thing that makes sense with the 19" front wheel being std now
As the new Multi looks less interesting, a V4 Supersport (or Streetfighter GT?) could be intriguing. Stick the Streetfighter V4 in it, give a range of 200 miles, add clean pannier mounts, make it fit 6' + riders and you'd probably have the best sport-tourer on the planet. If the Multistrada doesn't want that title, someone has to take it.
 

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As somebody who rides their Multi1200S as a sportbike for 500 mile days - I really hope they don't go 19" front wheel only. I know it's been decided but man I hope there are 17" wheels. I've been waiting for a WHILE. This would cut the worthy contenders from 2 to 1 (Super Duke GT is left).

Yes the BMW S1000XR is also in this space but man, 4cyls are too smooth and boring :(

Edit: And yes, I think they killed the single sided arm which bums me out. I'm worried I'm gonna have my '14 for a long time :(
A friend has an S1000R and another has a S1000XR. Trust me, smooth is not an issue for those. They are buzzy as can be. Still I agree with you that too smooth is too boring.
My riding is similar to yours, but admittedly 350 miles/day is more typical for me. On the backroads with breakfast, lunch and gas stops and it usually ends up being a 9-10 hour day.
The Superduke GT is rumored to be getting the same engine and frame updates as the R for '21. It's quickly becoming my top contender as well. My plan has been to buy in '22, because I don't like first year engines/models. We'll see what the future holds...
 

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While there are many factors... that does not mean wheel size does not matter. The debate is really around how much. A very rough moment of inertia calc. suggests a ballpark 40% increase in MoI for a tire of the same weight when the diameter increases from 17" to 19". People constantly underestimate the impact of unsprung and rotating mass... they're more important than our guts think they are. Many performance focused riders will chose a tire based on it weighing 10% less than another brand... a design change that makes the tire feel 40% heavier is not going to make customers happy.

For causal or inexperienced riders it's unlikely to be a factor (again going back to the "how much"), and the only time you're likely to feel it on the street is when you're riding hard... but on the track I suspect it'd be noticed nearly immediately by even moderately skilled riders - the dynamics of the bike at higher speeds are increasingly influenced by these factors. Acceleration, braking, turn in... all influenced by MoI. I was pretty surprised at the amount of work needed to turn an S1000RR with it's lightweight forged wheels at 100+mph (Kink in the front straight at VIR N), and that force is a direct result of rotational inertia and it's resultant gyroscopic effects. At street speeds it's not as strong an effect... but it's still there and is definitely noticeable to me anyway if I'm in the twisties (going to lighter wheels has been one of the biggest performance modifications I've made to the bike, on par with more aggressive gearing in the SOTP arena).
Great post.
 

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I trust a self-driving Tesla to see a motorcyclist FAR more than I do some distracted cager not paying any attention to their surroundings. Self-driving cars will be far safer for motorcycles than human (idiot) drivers.
Eventually. Of course when we get there the safetycrats will decide that letting anyone control their vehicle is too dangerous and motorcycling will disappear. I'm hoping that's after I'm dead.
Can you explain me why desmo valve train is important to you? I mean it was useful in the past when it allowed for higher revs without valve float, but spring technology make this useless now, just add weight and complexity to the cylinder heads.

I can see why a cosmetic change as a standard swing arm could be a deal breaker for some though.
There's a reason Ducati gets more rpms and horsepower than the other teams on the grid in MotoGP. If they could get their chassis and electronics sorted, they'd dominate. Of course the ironic things is they said they went away from trellis frame because it "wasn't competitive anymore and outdated." Then KTM won a race and is competitive every week with a trellis frame. "Change" does not always equal forward progress. In some cases it is a side step or worse, backwards.
 

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I'm surprised to find that many don't really understand what the Desmo system is actually designed to do. On Facebook someone said it was to "deal with lower quality designs and materials in the old days", suggesting we all just like it because we're luddites... which is... completely wrong.

The Desmo system does one thing - it addresses the shortcomings inherent in spring return valvetrains. It's not about materials or nostalgia it's about physics and valve float. Now the new Multi with it's lower RPM limit (which is exactly what I predicted Ducati would do - cause I'm a fart smeller) doesn't really need Desmo - the smaller V4 valvetrain components can spin at 11k no problem without Desmo. So I can't fault Ducati for optimizing the design by dropping Desmo...

... but I CAN fault Ducati for wasting money on a pointless (on the Multistrada) radar system instead of sticking to their "no #[email protected] given" performance focus and giving us a Desmo Multi that spins to 13 or 13.5k and makes 190hp. THAT's why I'm disappointed with the motor - it's not the design - it's the Audi-fication of Ducati's core values.
 
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Maybe for those buffalo roaming onto the fireroads in Yellowstone Park? ;)
There are no fire roads in national parks.

Perhaps an electric Panigale is around the corner?
Traditional concepts are changing. Even trying to find a manual transmission sports car is challenging. Many exotics don't even offer it as an option.
Doesn't mean I don't vote with my wallet. I have a 3 pedal sports car and will buy another and another while they offer them.

I am following this closely because I am in market for a new bike. I'm close to pulling the trigger on the 2020 Multistrada 1260S Grand Tour (checks every box I want: sport touring bike, heated grips, center stand, cruise control, active suspension, etc.), but now I am wanting to wait for this V4 Multi to be announced on Nov 4 to see what more it offers vs the current model.

If it were you, would you buy now (current tech) and maybe get better pricing?
Or, wait until these new V4s ship and buy into the next-gen platform and tech, somewhat future-proofing this purchase to be made in the next few months)?

Seems like good choices either way...
Wait regardless. No matter what, you win. Either the 1260 goes down in price or the V4 strikes your fancy. Not like this is peak riding season (assuming you're in the northern hemisphere)
 

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Discussion Starter #139
The new brand is
V4 Grandturismo.

So it is the brand name of the new engine. The new Multistrada models are yet to be launched, so those will like be branded as
Ducati Multistrada V4 Grandturismo

My guess is they will take a brand/product segmentation page from Triumph and announce multiple models, such as:

Ducati Multistrada V4 Grandturismo (base road model)
Ducati Multistrada V4 Grandturismo S (top spec road model)
Ducati Multistrada V4 Grandturismo Enduro (base off-road model)
Ducati Multistrada V4 Grandturismo Enduro S (top spec off-road model)

I say this as Ducati will have to find a way to bring to market and brand segment multiple models covering the various use cases & riders they currently serve with their existing lineup. I have a hard believing they will only launch one “jack of all trades” model to cover every use case.

See Apple with its now 4 model iPhone 12 launch as example #1...
Confimed, This new model will be branded as: Ducati Multistrada V4

Full model details announced Nov 4.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGZjoMWIJHb/

995106
 

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Discussion Starter #140
And check this out from the video. Looks like they now have integrated map nav built into the TFT display. And this TFT is wholly new. Looks possibly larger than current TFT and much more like the BMW TFT display (maybe they are sourcing from same supplier). In fact, it looks like they took the BMW TFT display and rotated it 180 degrees. See below:
For me, this gets far more interesting...

New Multistrada V4 TFT display:
995107



BMW TFT Display:
995109
 
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