Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your bike HERE to be a part of this months Bike of the Month Challenge!

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Evenin' All

Maybe these questions have been asked 100 times in 50 different threads, but its what I'd like to know ,,,, all in one place. So humour me if you will ,,,,, please.

Longtime Ducati owner (Desmo 450 MkIV & ST3), and member of this forum.

As I roll towards my 63rd year, I'm finding the above to be less enjoyable to ride. My neck, shoulders/back being the main offenders, followed by arm and finger issues, especially throttle hand, and hips/knee/foot angle relationships.

Soooooo ,,, I'd pretty much narrowed it down to a Multistrada 1200 S, with Touring, Urban & Enduro packs. Dealer even let me take their demo bike for a 3 day test ride, and put 800 klms on it.

What an absolutely BRILLIANT bike !!!!! On the road. What a piece of shit on the dirt (I know,,, wrong tyres,,, but also wrong sizes, 17 / 17 just ain't gunna cut it compared to 21 / 18.

So, back to the dealer, and along the way decide to keep my DR650 for the "proper adventure bike",,,, and the 1200 S with road tyres for the everything else rides. So tell the dealer ,,, SOLD, or so I thought.

A few issues arise at my end, so there's not a "spare" $32k until mid to late 2018.
But I want (need) to get my arse onto something more rider friendly sooner rather than later, so am now exploring the late model used bike options,,,, hence the below ,,,

1/ The 1200 S seat ,,, The height is still a tad too high, even on the lowest setting. I like to put both feet flat on the ground. Also the seat is not as good as the Gel seat on the ST3 (without doubt the best seat my arse has ever sat on)
1a/ Has anybody grafted an ST gel seat onto a Multi ?
1b/ Has anybody had their suspension modified to lower the whole bike,,, say 50mm ?

2/ I must have Cruise Control. It will be the difference between riding comfortably for another 10 years, or having to limit myself to much shorter, and less frequent rides.
2a/ On what year model did Cruise control first come as a factory option and/or standard fit ?
2b/ Has anybody fitted an after market Cruise Control ? If so, how much, and how difficult to do ?

3/ The sidestand interlock switch. Any ideas on how to protect it from damage,,, rocks from front wheel, and contact with the ground on even small obstacles ?

I've come across a few used 950's. And have ridden a couple. I'm reasonably impressed ,,,, but wondering ,,,,

4/ Same question as 1a & 1b above

5/ Same as 2a & 2b above
6/ Has anybody heard if and when the 950 might come standard with Cruise control somewhere not far down the track ?

7/ I haven't ridden a 950 very far, and not pushed it. How does the suspension perform ? Especially with luggage and a pillion ?

8/ I might even buy a new 950. They're $7k less than a 1200. Which is about top end of my budget, until about first few months of 2019.
Anybody got one, and like to give an informed opinion ?

Any assistance, much appreciated.

Cheers
From the "Land of Oz"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
1/ Best suggestion I'd give on your needs with the seat is go to an automotive upholstery shop and tell them what you're wanting. As odd as it sounds find one that has some specialization in modification of seats for handicap(as often they'll know ways to deal with unusual or unique discomfort).
2/ I believe the 2015 is when they started coming factory standard(at least with the 1200S). the Ducati cruise control I've found is absolutely wonderful as it's holding speed rather than throttle position as many of the aftermarket ones do.
3/ With how the bike is designed I'd suspect they've built in protections to the switch to guard it

I haven't ridden the 950 at all so I can't really comment on it. I know it lacks many of the creature comforts of it's big brother but I think it does still carry the cruise control on it. I think the seat height may also be an inch lower, though don't quote me on that one.
 

·
Hammer Down
2019 1250 GS
Joined
·
1,747 Posts
2a/ On what year model did Cruise control first come as a factory option and/or standard fit ?

2015

I added cruise control to my 2014 using Tuneboy, and it works wonderfully. It's electronic and holds the speed you set with little variance as you go up and down hills. Not sure if he offers them for the newer 950, probably hasn't had time to develop one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
869 Posts
The 2015 has a lower seat height than the previous years. I couldn't even tippy toe on a 2014.

I'm 5' 7" (tall for a Hobbit), but cannot flat foot both feet at the same time on my 2015, but there again, I can't do that on any of my bikes.

The cruise control works very well, best I've had on a bike.

I'm 60 years old and 175lbs, I dropped my Multistrada making a walking speed U turn on grass, I could not pick it up by myself, also did $160 worth of damage, plastic clutch guard and clutch lever, So I'd stick with the KLR for off road use.

I'm sure you could get the bike lowered, the forks would be easy, the swing arm angle would be the issue with the rear, but I think 50mm would be doable.

The seat isn't the best, that certainly could be re-worked, you can buy Gel inserts and put them in yourself relatively easy, I did one on my Tuono.


An Airhawk pad may also help for longer rides, but it does increase sear height.


I traded a Goldwing for the Mulistrada, I didn't have a "sports" tourer. The Multistrada does everything the Goldwing did, but better and I can ride it like a sports bike with the right crowd.

I would also check out the KTM 1290 GT, that wasn't available when I bought my Multistrada, the ergo's may suit you better, but the comfort features, dash, cruise control, suspension, etc., I believe are better on the Multistrada.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
A few issues arise at my end, so there's not a "spare" $32k until mid to late 2018.
But I want (need) to get my arse onto something more rider friendly sooner rather than later, so am now exploring the late model used bike options,,,, hence the below ,,,
Hate to derail your thread, but does your new bike have to be a Ducati? If I were in the market for a Multistrada I'd probably wait for the new 2018 bike, which might finally fix the gaping hole in the torque curve, to arrive. In the meantime you could look at other options...

The one that's always at the top of my list when it comes to long-distance sport touring is the Yamaha FJR1300. Yeah, I know: it's no Multistrada. What it is, however, is dirt cheap on the used market (at least in my area). Buy one for a song (US$6000-7000 vs $22,000+ for a Multi), upgrade the suspension (US$2000? Less if you don't need top shelf components) then add cruise control (Audiovox CCS-100) and you're good to go for at least a couple of years. If you want a more ADV-like bike, a buddy of mine recently bought a fully-loaded used Triumph Tiger Explorer for a bit less that US$10,000. The 1200cc triple engine is pretty sweet and the 19" front wheel should be more dirt-worthy than the 17" front on the Multistrada.

I'm sure there are lots of other options that might work until, say, MY2019 when the next-gen MTS1200 should be well-sorted....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,255 Posts
Between a used 1200S and a new 960 it really comes down to a couple things -

- Can you live with the lower power... the reality is that the 960 will be just as fast as the 1200 under most legal street riding conditions, just not when you're riding hard. It's basically going to be pretty similar to a 1200 in 'low power' mode (which cuts power out put to around 100hp). The power difference is VERY noticeable, but only when you're on go. Touring you'll be most likely to notice it when passing traffic on 2-lane highways.

- Do you ride under a lot of different loads... for someone like me that tours and sports on the same day and often at the same time, I really like the electronic suspension - I can adjust between comfort and handling on the go. I can take off >100lbs of touring gear and adjust the suspension for the lighter load in a couple seconds.

- Is a more basic electronics package ok... IMO the electronics package alone is worth getting the 1200. the 950's got a pretty basic abs package. However... some folks don't like all the rider aids. IMO if you're touring with the bike these are worth the money, if you're a weekend warrior then maybe not as much.

- Can you find a 1200S from a reputable dealer with full documentation... I imagine the answer is yes but I'd not buy a Ducati used without knowing it's been taken care of... and that you can get an extended warranty for it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thank you to all for the replies above.

I have considered the following bikes -
Multistrada 1200 S & Enduro - Multistrada 950 - Triumph Tiger 800 XCx Low - BMW F800 - Honda Africa Twin - Aprilia Capanord.

I recently had a Triump for an extended test ride. No longer in contention. The cruise control is on the RHS switch block. Making it cumbersome to set whilst holding the throttle. The windscreen is too small, and fixed, no adjustment. When stopped in traffic for anything more than 30 seconds, the heat rising from the engine into my groin was most uncomfortable. My wife roasted her right foot and calf on the heat from the exhaust.

Africa Twin looks good, but is way too tall. And the ergo's not good for me.

Multistrtada 950 - No factory cruise control, no skyhook suspension, and it weighs the same as the 1200. So probably not in the picture either.

Aprilia ,,,, yet to ride a late model example, but a mate had one 10 years ago, and was wrapped, so if they have evolved at similar rate to most others,,,, will be an interesting possibility to explore.

Same for the F800. Yet to be tested.

But given the number of Ducati shirts, jackets, boots etc ,,,, would cost as much as the bike to refit the wardrobe LOL.

Is looking like a 2015 / 16 model Multistrada 1200 S or Touring, but with a few modifications.
The gel seat insert video ,,,, THANK YOU. That might be the fix there.
Seat in lowest position, and maybe a bit of suspension mod to lower the height, but retain the travel as much as possible.

Were the suspension issues sorted out by the 2015/16 models ? I recall earlier complaints about knocking noises, clatter and bang.

Are there any aspects of those year models to be wary of ?

The Pikes Peak in those year models ,,, thoughts please ?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Hate to derail your thread, but does your new bike have to be a Ducati? If I were in the market for a Multistrada I'd probably wait for the new 2018 bike, which might finally fix the gaping hole in the torque curve, to arrive. In the meantime you could look at other options...



Gaping hole in the torque curve ????

I've not heard of complaint in that area.
And the 2016 model that I had for 3 days, and 800klms, certainly didn't have any such issues.

Anybody else with thoughts on that ?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,255 Posts
Hate to derail your thread, but does your new bike have to be a Ducati? If I were in the market for a Multistrada I'd probably wait for the new 2018 bike, which might finally fix the gaping hole in the torque curve, to arrive. In the meantime you could look at other options...



Gaping hole in the torque curve ????

I've not heard of complaint in that area.
And the 2016 model that I had for 3 days, and 800klms, certainly didn't have any such issues.

Anybody else with thoughts on that ?
Used to be pretty gaping... now (after multiple firmware updates) I'd say it's barely noticeable but some folks may be more sensitive to nonlinear power delivery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
869 Posts
The 2015's did have some minor issues, which I've been through most of them, but have all been resolved.

The Dash display is a rater soft plastic, there are screen protector available, cut to shape, similar to cell phone screen protectors, so that takes care of that.

The torque dip was noticeable and there was also a 2nd gear hesitation, both problems have been solved with map updates.

The dip is still there, but hardly noticeable, or at least on my 1200.

This was my 1200, dyno'd immediately before and after the factory map update.



There is still a dip, but to my butt, it is barely noticeable and it's not like the bike splutters through this brief, less than a second period. A lot also depends upon how you ride the bike, if you are a top gear lugger, then maybe you'll notice it a bit more.


I think I saw you mention the 1200 Enduro, this is a big bike, it has a very large fuel tank, 8 gallons. The plastic wings that come down the front side of the bike, on the normal MS, are actually fuel tank on the Enduro. With a full tank and me being short, the Multistrada can be a bit top heavy to get off the side stand, the Enduro adds another 3 gallons to the high up weight.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,255 Posts
Probably based on prior experience, but I never thought of the Multi as top heavy even with a full tank (it feels super light compared to my Triumph... those triples are great motors but top heavy). After touring with the Multi and fighting to get it off the side stand with a full load of gear I'm even more appreciative of how light the unloaded multi feels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
The Pikes Peak in those year models ,,, thoughts please ?
If you get the Pikes Peak, you're essentially paying for Ohlins, a term slip-on and some carbon.

The slip-on adds nothing power-wise. Maybe it sounds better, but I don't know how you judge that.

The Ohlins is a very good suspension, but the rear shock spring is meant for riding 2-up (although I've seen someone complain that it's too soft for hard riding 2-up). I had it adjusted the best they could for me (low 180 lbs in gear/don't ride 2-up or with bags) and I think it works just fine. .... which I'm sure the 1200S suspension would too.

The carbon fiber is ridiculously expensive and attracts rocks.

I think the livery is fine, but I would be fine with just red too.

YMMV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
Gaping hole in the torque curve ????

Here's Ducati's own overlay of the torque curve from the 1200S (white) and the new Multistrada 1260 (red) from the 2018 announcement event. Perhaps you notice the dip in the white line? Or the difference between the two curves? I know which one I'd want to own...

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,255 Posts
Here's Ducati's own overlay of the torque curve from the 1200S (white) and the new Multistrada 1260 (red) from the 2018 announcement event. Perhaps you notice the dip in the white line? Or the difference between the two curves? I know which one I'd want to own...

From what I've seen... Ducati's curves are essentially drawn by a trained monkey, they only have a 'vague' connection to reality. I've seen some 1200 torque graphs that look like that, especially early on. These days I suspect they look more like this (though this isn't accurate either, in no parallel reality will an Akro slip-on give you that much power... or any for that matter):



I will also be REALLY surprised if ~60 additional CC's flattens out the torque curve that much... it just looks too much like Ducati marketing.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
106 Posts
Missing Contender

Curious that the BMW SX1000r did not make your short list. That was my second choice after my beloved 16 MTS S.

The BMW was also thrilling and short enough for my 5'9" height.

As to the Power Dip - the Ducati graph definitely is pushing the new bike. I noticed the dip at first, but it was significantly reduced by last spring with the latest Ducati remap - I would say the dip was reduced by about 60% from when I first got the bike - it no longer bothers me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
From what I've seen... Ducati's curves are essentially drawn by a trained monkey, they only have a 'vague' connection to reality. I've seen some 1200 torque graphs that look like that, especially early on.
The Ducati curve for the 1200S seems to match the one ChrisE posted pretty well, so I'd say it's likely a pretty accurate picture of what a stock bike will currently produce. Will the 1260 fill in the curve as much as Ducati suggest? Given what independent dyno runs are showing for the XDiavel, using the same motor, I wouldn't be surprised if it did...

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Probably based on prior experience, but I never thought of the Multi as top heavy even with a full tank (it feels super light compared to my Triumph... those triples are great motors but top heavy). After touring with the Multi and fighting to get it off the side stand with a full load of gear I'm even more appreciative of how light the unloaded multi feels.

Agree totally.
The Tiger that we rode was noticably top heavy, and that was without any luggage. We travel with 21kg Max on the ST3. 8kg in each pannier and 5kg in the top box. I'm thinking that weight distribution on the Multi or the Tiger, would exacerbate that top heavy feeling.

I've ridden a few different versions of the Triumph Triple motor, the 955, and a few 1050's. They pull like a train. Bulk torque. Crack it open at almost any speed, in any gear, no snatch & grab, just rapidly increasing forward speed,,,, BRILLIANT motor, and the 800 had the same characteristics. The tacho redlines at 10,000RPM. At 5,000RPM the bike is loafing along at 114kph on the speedometer. The bike only had 150klm on it from new, so I didn't cane it, but it gave every indication of being a very willing motor.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Curious that the BMW SX1000r did not make your short list. That was my second choice after my beloved 16 MTS S.

The BMW was also thrilling and short enough for my 5'9" height.

As to the Power Dip - the Ducati graph definitely is pushing the new bike. I noticed the dip at first, but it was significantly reduced by last spring with the latest Ducati remap - I would say the dip was reduced by about 60% from when I first got the bike - it no longer bothers me.

Yes, I had considered the BMW, (very briefly) but somehow just can't bring myself to being exposed to so many of the jokes that I've told over the years, being told back at me,,, threefold over. LOL.

As to the torque curve dip ,,,, comments on this thread are the first I've heard of it, so THANK YOU to all for your input. The willing share of opinion and knowledge in here is amazing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
348 Posts
As to the Power Dip - the Ducati graph definitely is pushing the new bike. I noticed the dip at first, but it was significantly reduced by last spring with the latest Ducati remap - I would say the dip was reduced by about 60% from when I first got the bike - it no longer bothers me.
ChrisE's dyno chart and the one presented by Ducati show the current dip, which I find is pretty noticeable when accelerating at even moderate throttle openings with the stock gearing (which many would say is less-than-ideal). The bike pulls really hard, then you feel acceleration softening a bit, and then it pulls really hard again as you come out of the dip. My other bike (KTM Super Duke 1290) didn't have that dip, which made it even more apparent to me.

The torque dip certainly isn't the end of the world and the current DVT Multi is definitely a great bike... But if I were going to buy another one, I'd wait until reviews were in on the 1260 in the hopes that it does fix the torque curve and some of the other problems, too. Having less turbulent air focused directly on my helmet would be my other big wish! That was, ultimately, one of the things that really soured me on the DVT as a long-distance bike.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
fubar ,,, My days of wanting that exacting level of performance, have now passed. I don't want or need anything like the 160HP that the MTS has on tap. I'm plenty happy with the dynoed 112HP that my ST3 puts out. So a MTS with a flat spot isn't going to stress me. But I can see how some people wouldn't like it. Cheers Trevor.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top