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Discussion Starter #1
You might be aware that PJ Jacobsen won the 1000 Super Stock Race at Road America on a V4 Panigale. I got a call from the team manager from Celtic Racing advising that Moto America, the sanctioning body, was considering a 22 LB weight penalty and perhaps a 1500 rpm penalty as well.

This seems extreme since Ducati hasn't won an American race in memory. PJ is a great rider that races Flat Track and has been in World Superbike as well MA.

If you're a Ducati fan you might let MA know how you feel about it.
 

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Discussion Starter #3


Celtic HSBK Racing’s Official Response to Minimum Weight of Ducati V4R in Stock 1000

Mladin won the AMA title 7 times with more wins and poles than any other rider in the history of the series.
Carmichael once won all 48 motos in a season.
McGrath won 7 out of 8 years in the Supercross Championship.

Every sport has had a Mladin, a Carmichael, an athlete that was better and when he got on a better piece of equipment that suited his strengths, he truly shined. Penalizing greatness is contrary to why we show up to race in any motorsport championship. To penalize an athlete, to penalize a brand, to penalize a design for having made an impeccable product is beyond comprehension. With Road America’s long straights, sweeping corners, 4 miles of track and an uphill finish the Ducati is at its best.

At the start of every race season both team principals of Celtic HSBK Racing sit down with their attorney’s and analyze the rule book, the classes, the riders competing and build a business model to give their sponsors the biggest bang for their buck possible. We are 100% funded through our sponsors. We do not receive any funding from manufacturers and work extremely hard to get sponsor buy-in for the packages and team we build.

Based on the rule book we decided that PJ Jacobsen on a Ducati in the Superbike Cup would be the best way for our team to provide value to our sponsors. Both rider and machine are well suited to the Stock 1000 class and would get additional media coverage in the Superbike races. PJ Jacobsen meets all rider criteria for the class and despite grumblings otherwise, we did not have to appeal to MotoAmerica to grant him entrance. As many of our fans know, last year he had a successful 600 season and we knew he was ready to make a step up. He had attempted to race a 1000 in a previous season, but unfortunately it wasn’t yet his time to shine in that class.

Our ultimate goal is for PJ to follow the path Jake Gagne, Josh Herrin, and Mathew Scholtz have taken in MotoAmerica and graduate from Stock 1000 to Superbike. In 2015 when MotoAmerica took over from DMG and introduced the Stock 1000 class, HSBK Racing fielded the Aprilia RSV4 with a plan to do much the same. The team had numerous second place finishes crossing the line nearly 25 seconds after first place. There was no balancing of the bikes to close the gap.

We acknowledge that MotoAmerica has the prerogative to balance the bikes. We do however ask that they define the exact issue they hope to solve with these 22 pounds and future measures. We have already seen the goal post move once. If we spend a month testing the safety of adding copious amounts of weight to a compact machine, we cannot afford to have the goal posts move again. Adding nearly 20% of the riders weight to a meticulously engineered bike is one thing, but when will it stop if he continues to shine in the Stock 1000 class?

Our understanding is that this type of decision is typically based on engineering algorithms and data from multiple tracks. We have not seen this information yet. We have not seen or heard what 22 pounds will do to the bike definitively. Not at a big power track and certainly not at a tight track where handling will likely be greatly impacted. We have not heard an engineer say that these changes will accomplish x, y, z to level the field and that it will not compromise the safety of the rider. Without that are we just addressing the best bike out of the crate with the best rider?

We are not in this sport to promote mediocrity. It is our understanding that this series lives on to promote excellence in American RoadRacing. We have seen a shift of manufacturers stepping out of the sport. If we want more factory support in our paddock, we can’t disincentivize manufacturers from building the stock bikes that customers want. If we want them to promote their brand through our sporting body, we can’t penalize their machinery that follows the rules. We can’t penalize them when the right privateer and the right rider come together.

The team will be filing an official appeal to this decision.
 

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Requiring PJ's team to add 22 lbs of weight is ridiculous. I get that organizers want to see close racing, but adding weight is the wrong way. They should follow the WSBK model, where organizers made Kawasaki and Ducati lower their rev limit. I hope I'm wrong, but without big money from the factories, and penalizing riders, I don't see MotoAmerica lasting much longer. Maybe the new exposure from their Fox Sports contract will change things.
 

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Maybe you all didn’t watch the race. I can kinda understand. PJ’s super stock was absolutely as fast as Wyman’s full on Superbike. :)

In fact it kinda reminded me of the good old days when Polen was riding the FBF Ducati’s. He knew he was riding a hand grenade that wouldn’t run flat out for an entire race so he would just cruise around with the leaders until the last few laps and then pull the pin. He would just disappear. PJ tried to do the same but he wasn’t subtle enough. :)

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If you're a fan of Ducati, PJ or HSBK, you might send MotoAmerica an email about it. We're talking about the stock class bike here, not a modified Superbike.

PJ obviously is a superior rider.

The whole request from Bobby was to use social media to get the point across. You might pass it on to your local Desmo Owners Club.
 

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Maybe you all didn’t watch the race. I can kinda understand. PJ’s super stock was absolutely as fast as Wyman’s full on Superbike. :)

In fact it kinda reminded me of the good old days when Polen was riding the FBF Ducati’s. He knew he was riding a hand grenade that wouldn’t run flat out for an entire race so he would just cruise around with the leaders until the last few laps and then pull the pin. He would just disappear. PJ tried to do the same but he wasn’t subtle enough. :)

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Hmmm...I guess PJ needs to be more subtle then lol

Yeah, I didn't watch the race...haven't sub'd to Fox Sports, yet. I had thee BEST deal through BEIN Sports last season - MotoGP, WSBK, and MotoAmerica all wrapped into one subscription. T'was a sad day when it all came to an end. Now I have to decide what to do...:unsure:
 

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If you're a fan of Ducati, PJ or HSBK, you might send MotoAmerica an email about it. We're talking about the stock class bike here, not a modified Superbike.

PJ obviously is a superior rider.

The whole request from Bobby was to use social media to get the point across. You might pass it on to your local Desmo Owners Club.
I'll send MotoA an email. Addressed personally to ol' Wayne himself 😎
 
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And just to be fair, MotoAmerica should lower the cost of the VR4 so it's more in line with the other bikes racing. Wait, they can't do that, can they.
 

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Hmmm...I guess PJ needs to be more subtle then lol

Yeah, I didn't watch the race...haven't sub'd to Fox Sports, yet. I had thee BEST deal through BEIN Sports last season - MotoGP, WSBK, and MotoAmerica all wrapped into one subscription. T'was a sad day when it all came to an end. Now I have to decide what to do...:unsure:
The full race is on their YouTube channel. MotoAmerica
 

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Thanks! I'll check it out (y)
 

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If they make it 22lbs heavier it will no longer be stock so BANNED...lol I see what they did there.

Seriously , did they follow the rules?
Is the bike a stock legal bike or not?
I don't care if they think it is too good I do not see them pulling the same bs with suzuki,yamaha,kawasaki when they win back to back races. I also have no issues with spec class racing but you cannot have stock class open to all bikes and then try and dumb down the better bikes to be ... Fair? Suck it up buttercup and build a better bike or get a better rider. I was considering buyinig the moto america streaming package to get more races to watch but if all they are is a advertising wing of the big 4 brands they are no different than all the magazines I stopped buying decades ago.

I remember when the twins were not able to compete with 4 cylinder bikes so benefits were added to the twins. They were allowed lighter weight and increased displacement and Ducati used those benefits to prove that a twin could be effective. This caused the rules to pull back on weight advantage as the twins improved and dominated but even when even weight the bikes did well. At the point the costs caused twins to be too costly to run, Ducati did what everyone (except a few of us) wanted them to do and threw in the towel on twins to regain competitiveness more on par with the competition. Now they are too competitive?

I admit I have not followed US racing for a long time so please someone tell me when the last time in a stock class another manufacturers bike was restricted because it won .. A race? How about we just give the rest participation trophy's so everyone feels good and moto Amerikas sponsors can be proud.
 

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US road racing has reached the chicken-or-egg stage. We don't watch because the product isn't as enticing as it used to be and the organizers can't make it as enticing as it used to be without fans (and the resultant sponsors for their eyeballs). Or am I reading too much into it and we just don't give a shit regardless?
 

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Guess it will end with watching only that one race then. Not wasting my time watching a series governed by these limp dicks.
 

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You might be aware that PJ Jacobsen won the 1000 Super Stock Race at Road America on a V4 Panigale. I got a call from the team manager from Celtic Racing advising that Moto America, the sanctioning body, was considering a 22 LB weight penalty and perhaps a 1500 rpm penalty as well.

This seems extreme since Ducati hasn't won an American race in memory. PJ is a great rider that races Flat Track and has been in World Superbike as well MA.

If you're a Ducati fan you might let MA know how you feel about it.
It's hard for me to say if it is excessive or not... but it appears to me that PJ didn't fight his way into first place with brilliant riding (relative to the others at the front of the pack) at Road America, he had soo much more power he was able to just throttle past with ease when he decided it was time. That DOES seem to indicate that the Duc has a huge advantage and if they let it stay like this then there won't be much competition in the series this year.

It also appeared that the Duc was a lot less wheelie prone compared to the Suzuki ("Impressively stable" is how I'd describe it)... so maybe it was a better suspension setup that allowed PJ to put more power down. OR maybe those wings were really working. :)

the pass is starting at 16 minutes... the announcer mentioned the draft but he was barely in the draft at all - looked more like a big power advantage to me.

Now... the argument about "if a bike has an advantage because it's the better bike why is that a problem" is a different debate. IMO if you're a stock class then adding rules to make things more competitive makes it NOT a stock class but a modified class. I see why they're doing it (because either PJ will win every race this year or everyone will be on V4R's) but it does seem like a Nascar thing to do "SURE those tube frame monstrosities are stock cars... sure...."
 
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Celtic is getting way more exposure for this than they would ever get by PJ doing laps by himself in first place. One great thing about pro racing in America is its still accessible to privateers. Guys I used to club race with are competitive. Let's be real though. The V4R is a cheater bike. If everyone had to buy a $40k bike to enter Stock1000 there would only be one competitor. Let's see how MA adjusts after the next race. It is dumb that they used RA for the template though.
 

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.....The V4R is a cheater bike. If everyone had to buy a $40k bike to enter Stock1000 there would only be one competitor.....
Exactly. And the rules about performance balancing has always been there. For all bikes not just Ducati.

The only valid complaint is should this rule be exercised after only one round. I would say because of the shortened calendar reacting quickly is necessary.




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