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Discussion Starter #1
For the M1100 owners, does your bike run like crap below 15mph? Like in 5-15mph or so traffic speeds, the bike lurches back and forth, throttle is way too sensitive (crack open the throttle and the bike bucks back and forth), and just a pain to ride at those speeds. It's so bad I almost dropped it twice maneuvering in a parking lot. So with 1st gear engaged, it's not really rideable unless you're going above 15mph - meaning at speeds below that you pretty much have to be slipping the clutch and can't engage 1st at lower than 15mph.

Even when slipping the clutch, it's really "crunchy" and grabby. This is my first bike with a dry clutch so I don't really know to expect.

The only mod I've done that could affect engine performance is a K&N oiled filter. I can't imagine that would cause such problems though. But if I recall, even before I put it in, it still ran like crap at low speeds. (I also put on a Rizoma clutch pressure plate, but I don't thik that would affect anything?)

Any others out there having similar problems?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Saw this write up in another forum, so I guess what I described is typical for the M1100 :confused:

"As much as I like the engine, I’m really struggled with this bike below 4k. It absolutely sucks. I’m trying to figure out the culprit—fueling, gearing, loose throttle. It might be all of the above. Below 4k, it lurches horrible and the on/off throttle transitions are neck-snapping. It also surges with a constant throttle application, but that might just be from lugging. I got really annoyed trying to ride this bike slowly.
It’s pretty useless below 20mph, as you’re required to slip the clutch constantly. As is usual with Ducs, this one NEEDS a tooth down in front sprocket (or up a couple in the rear)."
 

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OK I am not 100% on this but this is what I have gathered over the time I have been reading up on this.

Ducati's need to lose a tooth in the front or up one or two in the rear. There is really nothing else to it.

The reason (I've heard) is they have them geared this way is for emission reasons. How or why this works I don't know I hope someone from this forum might have a mechanics point of view.

Since I am not extrememly mechanically inclinded and I do not have all of the tools nessesary I had the dealership put on 14 tooth front sprockets on the two bikes I recently purchased.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
OK I am not 100% on this but this is what I have gathered over the time I have been reading up on this.

Ducati's need to lose a tooth in the front or up one or two in the rear. There is really nothing else to it.

The reason (I've heard) is they have them geared this way is for emission reasons. How or why this works I don't know I hope someone from this forum might have a mechanics point of view.

Since I am not extrememly mechanically inclinded and I do not have all of the tools nessesary I had the dealership put on 14 tooth front sprockets on the two bikes I recently purchased.
How is that working out, does it run smoother at slow speeds?
 

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OK I am not 100% on this but this is what I have gathered over the time I have been reading up on this.

Ducati's need to lose a tooth in the front or up one or two in the rear. There is really nothing else to it.

The reason (I've heard) is they have them geared this way is for emission reasons. How or why this works I don't know I hope someone from this forum might have a mechanics point of view.

Since I am not extremely mechanically inclined and I do not have all of the tools necessary I had the dealership put on 14 tooth front sprockets on the two bikes I recently purchased.
A 14T front sprocket is a great mod for city riding (I have one), but it does not help with the low RPM lean issues. The surging and poor throttle response will not go away with the sprocket change.

My biggest problem with the 696 & 1100 is the fact that the DP ECU supplied with the Termi exhausts still retain the pair of narrow band O2 sensors. This means the $3K "race use only" full system on my M1100S still surges at low RPMs and pops on decel more than it should. I understand the limitations on the stock exhaust since it needs to be EPA and Euro 3 compliant. The only way we can get Ducati to look at a new ECU or a map re-flash is if a large group lets them know about the problem. Take a look at the Streetfighter forum for more info on the issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
A 14T front sprocket is a great mod for city riding (I have one), but it does not help with the low RPM lean issues. The surging and poor throttle response will not go away with the sprocket change.

My biggest problem with the 696 & 1100 is the fact that the DP ECU supplied with the Termi exhausts still retain the pair of narrow band O2 sensors. This means the $3K "race use only" full system on my M1100S still surges at low RPMs and pops on decel more than it should. I understand the limitations on the stock exhaust since it needs to be EPA and Euro 3 compliant. The only way we can get Ducati to look at a new ECU or a map re-flash is if a large group lets them know about the problem. Take a look at the Streetfighter forum for more info on the issue.
Hey thanks! Best detailed info I got so far. Gald to know mine's not the only one that runs lean and surges at low rpm
 

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Discussion Starter #7
A 14T front sprocket is a great mod for city riding (I have one), but it does not help with the low RPM lean issues. The surging and poor throttle response will not go away with the sprocket change.

My biggest problem with the 696 & 1100 is the fact that the DP ECU supplied with the Termi exhausts still retain the pair of narrow band O2 sensors. This means the $3K "race use only" full system on my M1100S still surges at low RPMs and pops on decel more than it should. I understand the limitations on the stock exhaust since it needs to be EPA and Euro 3 compliant. The only way we can get Ducati to look at a new ECU or a map re-flash is if a large group lets them know about the problem. Take a look at the Streetfighter forum for more info on the issue.
Actually another question, is there a ECU update/reflash available?
 

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Actually another question, is there a ECU update/reflash available?
No.

My bike is pretty much as good as it's going to get. It had major issues prior to the 600 mile service, but it's much better after a cam & belt adjustment. It still surges a fair amount and pops on deceleration. The only way it's going to get better is a new map or a way to disable the O2 sensors like the other DP ECUs. A power commander is an easy addition if the O2 sensors are not part of the fuel management. I should note in all fairness to DNA I haven't even contacted them to file a complaint. I do know my local dealer has done all they are able to rectify the problem (and they're one of the good ones).
 

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A 14T front sprocket is a great mod for city riding (I have one), but it does not help with the low RPM lean issues. The surging and poor throttle response will not go away with the sprocket change.
Can someone tell me exactly what putting a 14T sprocket does? I understand the science but not the end result. Talk to me like I'm 5 if you have too :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Quat D Ex Box for M1100

I'm a little confused. Just saw this on the Motowheels website:

http://www.motowheels.com/italian/myproducts.cfm?parentcategoryid=660%7CDucati%20Exhaust&productID=7293&showDetail=1&categoryID=671|Monster%20Exhaust&vendoridtodisplay=60%7CQuat%2DD&filterFor=&collection=168%7CEuropean%20Motorcycle%20Parts

It is a full exhaust, does it reuse the factory O2 sensors? I'd really like to get this system, but would like to read some reviews first. Most importantly being that you cannot alter the stock ECU....yet

I forgot where I read it (it could be on here), but this one guy replaced the exhaust on his Ducati while using the stock ECU and it runs so bad that sometimes the engine shuts off at speed!! :eek:
 

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At that sort of low speed, clutch is your friend. I don't have an issue when I slip the clutch while riding at those speed. You have to be very sensitive with your throttle input at that sort of rev range with this bike. I found it incredibly annoying when I first bought the bike, but now I can ride it very smoothly no matter what speed and what rev range. Also don't forget the clutch only bites towards the end of the release so you may not be slipping the clutch when you think you were!
 

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That's just the reality of riding a bike with that gearing and that idle speed, especially one with two cylinders.

Going up 2 in the rear will approximately lower the lowest speed you can travel smoothly by ~5%. Going down 1 in the front will do the same by ~7%. Combining the two will give you a ~12.7% torque increase and a matching ~11% decrease in the speed at which it will operate smoothly in 1st with the clutch engaged. So instead of having to stay above 15 MPH, you'd have to stay above 13 MPH. Factor in the superior drive ratio's effect on the load, and you're looking at maybe 12 MPH minimum.

The problem is, the engine has a minimum speed (idle) that it should run at, and there's a minimum speed (idle + x) at which it'll operate smoothly for a given load. Changing the gearing lessens the load in 1st gear and reduces the effective speed, but doesn't get rid of the engine's requirement to keep spinning.

Even my torque-monster Warrior can't go below 12 MPH without having the same issues.

Automatic transmissioned cars don't have this problem because the torque converter is very inefficient at low RPM, so only some of the energy is transferred to the transmission and, subsequently, the wheels. My GTO can idle along happily at 6 MPH, but that's what happens when you have plenty of cylinders to even out the firing.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That's just the reality of riding a bike with that gearing and that idle speed, especially one with two cylinders.

Going up 2 in the rear will approximately lower the lowest speed you can travel smoothly by ~5%. Going down 1 in the front will do the same by ~7%. Combining the two will give you a ~12.7% torque increase and a matching ~11% decrease in the speed at which it will operate smoothly in 1st with the clutch engaged. So instead of having to stay above 15 MPH, you'd have to stay above 13 MPH. Factor in the superior drive ratio's effect on the load, and you're looking at maybe 12 MPH minimum.

The problem is, the engine has a minimum speed (idle) that it should run at, and there's a minimum speed (idle + x) at which it'll operate smoothly for a given load. Changing the gearing lessens the load in 1st gear and reduces the effective speed, but doesn't get rid of the engine's requirement to keep spinning.

Even my torque-monster Warrior can't go below 12 MPH without having the same issues.

Automatic transmissioned cars don't have this problem because the torque converter is very inefficient at low RPM, so only some of the energy is transferred to the transmission and, subsequently, the wheels. My GTO can idle along happily at 6 MPH, but that's what happens when you have plenty of cylinders to even out the firing.
good explanation, thanks!
 
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