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Discussion Starter #1
For those subscribers to MotoGP who also have seen this latest video.

The two major changes for the new season are in the electronics and tires.

My question after watching this new video that most interests me: is the tire change.

All spokespersons from the Yamaha camp and especially Lorenzo and Rossi continually zero in on the Michelin front tire and how it will effect both the bike and the rider in 2016.

OK....I get that. But what baffles me is that the Michelin people also must realize that their product does not perform in the same acceptable way as did the Bridgestone product.

Why would they design a tire that was approved by Dorna knowing that factories and riders would not be happy with it.

It isn't as though they lack the ability to design a tire that would be immediately acceptable. Does Michelin believe that their designers are more advanced than those at Bridgestone and that eventually MotoGP will see the light of day?

Dan
 

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The choice of tire manufacture is all about $$$$$ to DORNA. Nothing to do with best technology.

They each have there own idea about what makes the perfect tire. In former times, Bridgestone was all about ultimate grip, Michelin was about control at the edge of traction.

Maybe nothing has changed, we'll see this season.

I do think the Bridgestone tires favored a certain style (JorGay)

The Michelins will have there own favored. We'll see who rises to the top.

bob
 
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Thanks for posting on this, I've gotten so out of the habit of checking motogp.com, which is a shame since I paid for the dang thing!
 

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OK....I get that. But what baffles me is that the Michelin people also must realize that their product does not perform in the same acceptable way as did the Bridgestone product.
I don't buy it.

All the riders say the rear tire from Michelin is better than the B'stone. Does that mean the B'stone rear was unacceptable? No. It just means you have to learn the tire's characteristics and learn how to ride it.
 

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The choice of tire manufacture is all about $$$$$ to DORNA. Nothing to do with best technology.

They each have there own idea about what makes the perfect tire. In former times, Bridgestone was all about ultimate grip, Michelin was about control at the edge of traction.

Maybe nothing has changed, we'll see this season.

I do think the Bridgestone tires favored a certain style (JorGay)

The Michelins will have there own favored. We'll see who rises to the top.

bob
When Bridgestone announced they were through as Motogp single tire supplier only Michelin answered the call to replace them. They're now in the position to call the shots with each team having to adopt to their products. Like Bridgestone, some will be better at adopting than others.
 

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This doesn't translate to MotoGP in the least bit and isn't even related to the OP's topic but....I absolutely refuse to use Michelin tires.
Bit of an odd post, I'm afraid I don't understand your point of view?

Can you explain ?

Craig
 

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Bit of an odd post, I'm afraid I don't understand your point of view?

Can you explain ?

Craig
I've never used a Michelin tire that didn't feel terrible, do something strange or just be generally bad. I gave up on the brand years ago and as well all remember, the tire debacle was particularly bad a few years back.

There are tire issues and complaints every season but they seem particularly pronounced with Michelin. I mean, the testing runs had a massive amount of crashing.
 

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The crashing issue on the first test was somewhat understandable. They had to find chassis setups that complimented the new tires and learn to ride the bike to the tires. It seems apparent the old Bridgestone setup was not going to work.

I'm guessing, but those who ride a looser bike (Marquez) will do better than those who ride a very precise tidy style (JorGay).

We'll know soon enough, eh...

I'm really looking forward to the new season.

bob
 

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Discussion Starter #10
For those subscribers to MotoGP who also have seen this latest video.

The two major changes for the new season are in the electronics and tires.

My question after watching this new video that most interests me: is the tire change.

All spokespersons from the Yamaha camp and especially Lorenzo and Rossi continually zero in on the Michelin front tire and how it will effect both the bike and the rider in 2016.

OK....I get that. But what baffles me is that the Michelin people also must realize that their product does not perform in the same acceptable way as did the Bridgestone product.

Why would they design a tire that was approved by Dorna knowing that factories and riders would not be happy with it.

It isn't as though they lack the ability to design a tire that would be immediately acceptable. Does Michelin believe that their designers are more advanced than those at Bridgestone and that eventually MotoGP will see the light of day?

Dan
The choice of tire manufacture is all about $$$$$ to DORNA. Nothing to do with best technology.

Bob: You may be correct but somehow I'm not sure that it is this simplistic.

bob
I don't buy it.

All the riders say the rear tire from Michelin is better than the B'stone. Does that mean the B'stone rear was unacceptable? No. It just means you have to learn the tire's characteristics and learn how to ride it.
My original question is: do manufactures build and design their product believing that their product is perfect? Food and drink recipe companies have locked in their specific trademark by withholding specific ingredients from the public and competing companies. Can tire manufactures keep secret their rubber compounds and build design? I don't think so.

The crashing issue on the first test was somewhat understandable. They had to find chassis setups that complimented the new tires and learn to ride the bike to the tires. It seems apparent the old Bridgestone setup was not going to work.

I'm guessing, but those who ride a looser bike (Marquez) will do better than those who ride a very precise tidy style (JorGay).

We'll know soon enough, eh...

I'm really looking forward to the new season.

bob
Bob

I am also looking forward to 2016 and the Michelin factor.

You don't generally try to fix something that is not broken: but Dorna (for reasons that I am not positive are only financial) has thrown the riders and teams into disorder.

Dan
 

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My original question is: do manufactures build and design their product believing that their product is perfect? Food and drink recipe companies have locked in their specific trademark by withholding specific ingredients from the public and competing companies. Can tire manufactures keep secret their rubber compounds and build design? I don't think so.



Bob

I am also looking forward to 2016 and the Michelin factor.

You don't generally try to fix something that is not broken: but Dorna (for reasons that I am not positive are only financial) has thrown the riders and teams into disorder.

Dan
DanF,

I'm quite sure there are plenty of secrets that Michelin and Bridgestone don't share. Its just not (rubber-not really) chemistry but time, temp, construction, and blending that go into the manufacture of the tire. Also conditions on track, power of engines, weight of bike.etc.

Tires are amazingly complex.

Michelin will learn, Bridgestone did not invent perfection either, their tire design was always in flux.

I think the biggest difference comes down to company biases, not engineering.

But its just an opinion

the perfect/best tire has not been invented yet and probably never will.

BTW, I like Michelin tires, I have PR's on my ST4s.

bob
 

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I just re-read a Motomatters.com article from back in April '14 where Bridgestone not being the sole tire supplier was the hot rumor being thrown around. What I found interesting was their reported reluctance at re-bidding because of a list of conditions specified by Capirossi and the Safety Commission. Pirelli, Dunlop, Michelin and Bridgestone were all made aware of the requirements.

The conditions included (but we're not limited to) such things as longevity, and a wider selection of tires on race-day, with the last point being a major source of resistance due to (according to what was written) the increased transportation costs of having to ship more tires.

The article stated Bridgestone "looks reluctant to comply with all the conditions being put to them by the Safety Commission...Bridgestone already pays over 20 million euros a season to supply a maximum of 22 riders each season with free tires. The Japanese firm is not keen for costs to be raised further."

Assuming the accuracy of the article's content it seems they walked away because the "cost-benefit" formula went beyond what they were willing to spend.
 
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guys, there just tires. all teams have the same. its how they (riders and engineers) choose to adapt that holds my interest. michelin are effectively starting from scratch so of course there will be teething problems. change is harder for some then others. lordofthecerial, maybe you need to become a tyre tech for michelin and show them how to do it. im sure they could use your input to become one of the best tyre makers in the world instead hanging down there with chen shing.
 

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I would not be displeased with that.

The next test is a couple of weeks from now and we'll get a better sense of who's in trouble and who's looking good.
 

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It's going to be a fascinating season! Funny how I'm not seeing a lot of prediction threads on the internerds. :confused:;)
Most people used up all their hot air in the 3 weeks around Sepang and Valencia. I'm quite certain that most of my "Give a Fuck" has been used up until I see bikes hit the track in anger.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Given the countless variations of both hardware (bike) and software adjustments that can be made on 2016 MotoGP bikes: is it possible that (with enough tweaking), the new Michelin tires can be "morphed" into the former Bridgestone tires?

Dan
 

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It's going to be a fascinating season! Funny how I'm not seeing a lot of prediction threads on the internerds. :confused:;)

I'm going to predict that we see a big step forward at Ducati..... They have a solid controllable engine. They have more experience with the new electronics. Plus they got some good data with last season and the GP15. Maybe not the championship but at least a few race wins. Actually I'm going to double down and say Iannone in Qatar. That's right you heard me!!!
 
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