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metal bits: this something to worry about?

7870 Views 24 Replies 17 Participants Last post by  MTScott2, 
Jbone
2
Did an oil change the other day and there were a bunch of small metal shavings on the plug and the screen. One of the oil change guides frim this site says that it might be due to crappyshifting.... just changed the clutch as well.... old one was knackered!

Should i be worried?

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kaos
The screen would give me cause for concern.
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Tmnstr
Jbone said:
Did an oil change the other day and there were a bunch of small metal shavings on the plug and the screen. One of the oil change guides frim this site says that it might be due to crappyshifting.... just changed the clutch as well.... old one was knackered!

Should i be worried?
Click to expand...
What year/model is your bike? And how many miles? Some metal shavings are normal from the factory (machining bits when they built the motor...hence the screen to catch them and hold them till the first or second oil change). If your bike is older, then you want to examine the bits closely and get a tech to give you an opinion.

Cheers,

Tmnstr


Sent from my Motorcycle iPhone app
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jlduck
...just normal wear and tear...I wouldn't worry about it...that's why the magnet is on the drain plug.
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Corse1
Thats absolutely normal for the first oil change or screen check. looked the same on my first change of my ST4s and i just pulled the screen for the first time on my 30000km 999...exactly the same.

The cases are put together with not all the machining cleaned up so that normal. The 999 magnetic drain plug had zero debri attached. If you get this sort amount of crap on a second check of the screen then I would be worrying.

Subsequent checks of the ST4s screen have shown small pieces that look like they have come from normal wear but they are very minimal.

So if its the first time the screen has been pulled, clean it and reassemble good to go.
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Corse1
Here is the 999 screen. the St4 was alot closer to what you are seeing on yours.

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Z
Corse1 said:
Here is the 999 screen. the St4 was alot closer to what you are seeing on yours.
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Don't confused metal bits w/ the grey Threebond case sealant that seems to get trapped by the screen.
I'm not so sure that what he has is normal.....could very well be. I agree w/ kaos..... that appears to be excessive amounts of metal trapped by both screen and drain plug. Should at the very least send the pics to his Ducati tech or save the shavings and have them looked at more closely.
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Corse1
ZDM said:
Don't confused metal bits w/ the grey Threebond case sealant that seems to get trapped by the screen.
I'm not so sure that what he has is normal.....could very well be. I agree w/ kaos..... that appears to be excessive amounts of metal trapped by both screen and drain plug. Should at the very least send the pics to his Ducati tech or save the shavings and have them looked at more closely.
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My bad:(. Screen I still say is about normal for first change. The exact same metal flakes on the screen I had on both mine. Very reputable duc shop here told me thats what they normally see. That was 6 years ago. Their explanation of maching debri left on castings I believed as I am a machinst and understand that it could be so.

NOW that i opened the drain plug pic I must say I agree with ZDM now that what your looking at there is not normal.

There is another thread here somewhere that tells you how to chemically test the debri to see if its chrome of the rockers. To me it looks more like something grinding away in the gearbox:eek:
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davy.j
If a magnet picks them up they are steel - gearbox shavings or bearing.
If a magnet doesn't pick them up they are alloy (could be crank plug backing out on a machine up to and including 2000) or rocker chrome chips (a drop of battery acid on them will cause purple fumes)
Ducati don't have an engine number break point on when the change from alloy to steel oil crank gallery plugs was made, they told me the only way to find out is split the cases.
All I know is I have two 2000 engines, one has a steel plug for sure and I don't know about the other one till I strip it.
.
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JEC
I'd say those are galley plug shavings... Notice how some of them are long and thin? Rocker bits are usually small, flat chips.


First do the battery acid test to see if they are aluminum or chrome, if you still have the bits handy.

Then it's time to open her up and see what's what. You can check the galley by removing one of the cylinder and looking at the side of the crank to see if it is backing out/rubbing. Do that BEFORE you remove the engine and split the cases, cause it might not be the problem!


In any case, that motor needs to be examined lest you end up doing more damage.
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the grumpy fish
davy.j said:
If a magnet picks them up they are steel - gearbox shavings or bearing.
If a magnet doesn't pick them up they are alloy (could be crank plug backing out on a machine up to and including 2000) or rocker chrome chips (a drop of battery acid on them will cause purple fumes)
Ducati don't have an engine number break point on when the change from alloy to steel oil crank gallery plugs was made, they told me the only way to find out is split the cases.
All I know is I have two 2000 engines, one has a steel plug for sure and I don't know about the other one till I strip it.
.
Click to expand...
spot on....
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C
My guess looking at the amount of bits stuck to the magnet is that a main bearing is on the way out. This is a split the case's and have a look job. Either way, far to much metal on the sump plug not to see where it's coming from.
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pjonte
Metal splinters on the magnet or flakes on the screen are not necessarily a sign of imminent engine failure and certainly not worth tearing down the engine on first signs. As your initial and others have posted, bits like that on the magnet are typically from the transmission's gears. Either because its never been cleaned from new or you're being rough on for whatever reason. I've owned 3 new Ducati's and a couple track bikes, they've all showed signs more or less to your photo either from being new or me thrashing them on the track. Metal flakes on the screen, especially on the older desmo engines are usually from the rockers flaking a well known and documented problem. My suggestion would be to clean everything up good, replace the oil filter and reload with a quality full synthetic and ride it like you stole it until the next oil change interval, <2000 mi. then reassess.
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jwsparkes
I'd be more concerned about the pink tool box! Sorry, I coudn't help myself :) I'm sure it's red and just appears to be the other colour in the photograph.
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kaos
I assume the op bikes are the ones in his sig line.this makes the issue far from being new parts running in.in fact if I had a new bike i would document the pics and pieces with a dealership if the bike has warranty
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JEC
I strongly disagree with that idea. Sump plug is not ideal, but not unusual (couple of hard shifts can result in that sort of wear) - but the amount of flakes in the screen are a major cause for concern. If they are chrome, the rockers will likely start eating the face of the cams - assuming the metal doesn't block the tiny oil passages in the heads, which will cause some serious damage. If they are aluminum, the galley plug could drop out at any point and cause a total loss of oil pressure to the big end, which means big boom.

I've had flaking rockers before and the amount of chrome I found was 1/4 of what he has on that screen right now - and in far smaller flakes.


pjonte said:
Metal splinters on the magnet or flakes on the screen are not necessarily a sign of imminent engine failure and certainly not worth tearing down the engine on first signs. As your initial and others have posted, bits like that on the magnet are typically from the transmission's gears. Either because its never been cleaned from new or you're being rough on for whatever reason. I've owned 3 new Ducati's and a couple track bikes, they've all showed signs more or less to your photo either from being new or me thrashing them on the track. Metal flakes on the screen, especially on the older desmo engines are usually from the rockers flaking a well known and documented problem. My suggestion would be to clean everything up good, replace the oil filter and reload with a quality full synthetic and ride it like you stole it until the next oil change interval, <2000 mi. then reassess.
Click to expand...
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Able Duc
Oil looks quite dirty and black, so maybe it has been a while since the last change.

I had an ST4s that was very unloved by previous owner. Had shavings just like what you have and I nearly [email protected] myself.

Changed the filter and oil, then did about 500km and dropped the oil out again and it looked fine. Actually the oil was so good I recycled it.
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S
Run it.
If the bits on the magnet won't fit through the hole then ya got a problem.
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Jbone
Thanks for all of the input guys. For the record it is a 2000 996 SPS with about 7k miles. ( btw my 2002 748 with twice the mileage had NO metal on the plug or screen during oil changes).Previous owner was Nine16, he seems to take care of his bikes, however i suspect he rides then as well ;). The bike had a valve check done by a dealer last year. Having said that, i was talking to a local ducati mechanic, an old timer, and he was adiment that the sps eats rockers!
In the mean time im going to send the pics to a dealer i've been talking to for info and see what they say.
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JEC
Any desmoquattro will flake rockers. 996/SPS included. The 748 is just more prone because they typically get revved higher than the big bore motors, but it isn't the only one affected.

I've replaced 4 or 5 in mine so far, can't recall exactly. Mostly openers, and one closer.

At 7k miles I would say it's likely NOT the galley plug (those rarely pop up before 30k, and 2000 you might get lucky and have an upgraded steel plug).

If it were my bike I'd do an inspection of the rockers. I did and it saved me a set of cams, they were on the verge of getting eaten (not to mention the clearances were way off after the chrome was gone)
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