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guy martin liked to use st2 cams in the heads he did, and about when they gained press the idea of st2 cams in carby mdoels gained press. i asked bruce, and he'd never done them on their own (like eric and others have said).

so afaik, no one has done it as yet. i have the cams, if someone local (melboure, au) wants to try it let me know. i'll fit and shim for free, you pay for the dyno runs.
 

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I just think it would be something good to know for all of us, The cams are stupid priced as far I am concerned and I am used to BMW pricing which normally seems to make Duc's seem inexpensive lol, but it could make those that are considering a slight upgrade know whether just the cams would give and benefit for those $$$ or are they going to have to go the whole route of Cams, Pistons, Valves, Carbs etc where you can really easy spend more then the bike is ever going to be worth, especially if they are not capable of doing the work themselves.
 

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Oh Oh ! You’ve crossed into sacred ground now ! You will now receive “ the lecture “ about spending ridiculous amounts on upgrades cannot be compared to the low price you may have purchased the bike for. If I can paraphrase: If you haven’t spent at least as much on upgrades as you spent on the bike, or at least intend to, then you can’t be part of the SuperSport Club. You will be shamed and looked upon with scorn until you open that wallet wide ! A pair of FCR’s or unobtainium wheels will gain you respect far beyond your actual need for the items. You’ve been warned !
 

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As has been stated before the quickest and easiest performance boost after a jet kit and exhaust is raising the compression. It really wakes the engine up and I think longer timing of the ST2/IE cams would be wasted on the standard carb engine unless a fortune was expended on jetting/dyno time.
 

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I have not installed and tested cams alone in a 900 so I do not have that data alone, it is in my mile long list of things to try but first I need time and then I need the cams.

I have changed cams alone in a 750ssie to 900 carby cams and did see a 4-5rwhp bump over stock. you MIGHT see similar but as with most mods there are a lot of variables so just know your results may vary. Also be aware if you add lift to the cam and run a stock piston you need to verify the now greater lift will not contact the pistons. Yes to do the job right it will probably be more work than benefit to do just the cams. This is why no one does JUST the cams, minimize the labor by doing the majority of things all at once saves you money and makes the expense more noticeable in more than just your wallet.

My Dyno should be up and running this fall again if anyone wants to test. free before and after run ... in the sake of science.:wink2:
 

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Oh Oh ! You’ve crossed into sacred ground now ! You will now receive “ the lecture “ about spending ridiculous amounts on upgrades cannot be compared to the low price you may have purchased the bike for. If I can paraphrase: If you haven’t spent at least as much on upgrades as you spent on the bike, or at least intend to, then you can’t be part of the SuperSport Club. You will be shamed and looked upon with scorn until you open that wallet wide ! A pair of FCR’s or unobtainium wheels will gain you respect far beyond your actual need for the items. You’ve been warned !
Well then I may be shunned lol because I can promise you this, I shall not spend stupid money on this 900ss to do so called upgrades. I am more interested in keeping it as close as stock original as I can, This is a street bike for me & I am not going out on the track with this bike. Hell if I wanted to go really fast I would have kept my M.V. Agusta 750 F4 Neiman Marcus , That thing was freeking fast at least after you got over 7K rpm lol. Some Bikes I purchase to enjoy as they were meant to be this 900ss is one of those
 

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I have not installed and tested cams alone in a 900 so I do not have that data alone, it is in my mile long list of things to try but first I need time and then I need the cams.

I have changed cams alone in a 750ssie to 900 carby cams and did see a 4-5rwhp bump over stock. you MIGHT see similar but as with most mods there are a lot of variables so just know your results may vary. Also be aware if you add lift to the cam and run a stock piston you need to verify the now greater lift will not contact the pistons. Yes to do the job right it will probably be more work than benefit to do just the cams. This is why no one does JUST the cams, minimize the labor by doing the majority of things all at once saves you money and makes the expense more noticeable in more than just your wallet.

My Dyno should be up and running this fall again if anyone wants to test. free before and after run ... in the sake of science.:wink2:
got a new location?
 

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got a new location?
Unless something bad happens as it is always prone to do ... Yes. New building I am supposed to be able to move back in next month, vacation appears to be over. :crying:
Don't know if you are still looking for Cams, or if freight will kill it
Good price on those and the last few sets I have had customers buy whole heads out of Europe just to get them, pickings are getting slim as there are not many who want to scrap a good bike for cams and Ducati wants about $1500 us a pair for new.
 

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Yeah I liked the sound of those D&D's too Sam but my neighbors probably hated them. Had to keep the garage door closed in the morning while warming up the bike with the choke on because those mofo's were definitely on the loud side.
Lol, a goal of mine is to own quite a few acres of land, plop on a tiny home and a garage (duh!), and then not have to worry about sound complaints from my neighbors. Have you heard cored D&Ds? Wow, they are still mostly baritone but there is a slightly raspier or higher pitch to the exhaust notes. It sounds so race-esque. It is difficult for me to describe but I'd love to have a set.

I'll be using an Ignitech TCI-P4 programmable ignition and a hall effects pick-up kit to get rid of the wasted spark. Bought both of those kits from Liam over at FastBikeGear in New Zealand.
I also have one of Liam's TPS mounting kits for the FCR carbs too but I won't be using it because I found out after I bought it that it only works with the racked carbs and not the split singles.
I have owned splits - never mounted them - but I tried inspecting why that adapter might now work but the the mounting points on the throttle mechanism seemed similar to the racked. I'm still not sure why it doesn't work. In any case it's possible a freelancer can mockup a 3D adapter, send it to you, and you may print it out at a local 3D printing shop. I'm learning 3D modeling right now because I want to 3D print different length and taper velocity stacks to test out which dimension is best for my riding. I unfortunately don't have splits otherwise I would have tried to 3D model an adapter for you.

From what I've heard they can be a bit of a pain on cold start up and you've gotta keep on top of the cable adjustments. I won't know for sure Sam until I get the bike back together and running so I guess we'll hafta wait and see.
I'd like to read the report. I live in Sacramento and it rarely reaches freezing. I'm still undecided if I want this bike to be more a mid-range torque monster or a top-end one. I have IE cams on my shelf, but racked FCRs. Maybe that is actually a nice balance to strike.


Yep. I've literally got a small mountain of boxes and boxes and boxes full of new parts for my rebuild Sam,been slowly collecting parts for quite a few years now. When I'm done there practically won't be a single part or system on my bike that won't be modified or updated in some way or other.

That's the cool thing about these old carby 900SS's,they're so easy to work on and there are so many different things that you can do to them to fix their inherent faults and update them. And the real beauty of it all is that it's all been done before. All you have to do is research through these 900SS forums and follow the instructions that other forum members have already presented in the threads.

Ducati.MS is a veritable gold mine of carby 900SS information,man I love this place!
Oh yeah! I have learned a lot on this forum and I'm amassing data and experience with a hands-on build. Ducvet especially has helped me a lot. I owe him a truck load of beers.

I've diffused my money among multiple Ducatis and never was able to really fully build one, but now I have quite a few major parts (BCM Pistals, FCR 41s w/ Ignitech, ported/polished/oversized heads, Nichol's flywheel and some other tid bits) and I'm picking up my third CR and the owner has done some major front-end work like 996 forks with 999 calipers machine to fit, and all kinds of bling and upgrades. Thus, I am thrilled to marry my parts pin to that CR. Finally, some decent suspension! What rear shock are you planning on running?


If by SM you mean Sil Moto then no I won't be needing that exhaust. The Sil Moto spaghetti headers and Fast By Ferracci pipes that I have are both brand new in the box.
For their part the FBF pipes were made by Sil Moto Italia,says so right on the box so they're most likely the same or very similar to the pipes that Mike is selling. Thanks for the heads-up anyway though.
You're welcome. That's interesting that SM made FBF's pipes. It's reminds me of how Wiseco makes or at least used to make pistons for different brands. Can I ask - did the FBF pipes have as much as a premium as SM?

Btw, I realized my username can be read as "Sam Adhi" and you probably and understandably figured my name was Sam.

Here's a protracted answer if you're curious to know.

Samadhi is a Sanskrit term in Hinduism that describes the final stage of one's meditative practice in which the individualistic sense of "I"-consciousness dissolves and thus all duality/relativity and appearance of phenomenality (internal or external) disappears. It is a state of non-action and silence thus allowing witness all actions and noise (this is a metaphorical description). If you've done psychedelics you probably know what I'm talking about (but that is not really the same as it's still being inside of a phenomenon).

Normally we are like a wave. We identify as separate from the ocean, constantly moving and rushing toward some objective, being broken by the shore. One can reach a state of consciousness where they realize that they are the entire ocean, but that requires giving up the smallness of identifying as a wave only. There are a few stages to samadhi and my guru in India mentioned how at the first stage he would forget what time it was, where he was (despite being in his own home), and even his own name, and that is a commonly reported side effect. The common denominator between all those things is that they are products of "I"-consciousness and simply phenomenon stuck in space and time, but samadhi takes us beyond space and time, thus it takes time if we are to adjust to this reality after deep meditation.

I have never reached samadhi, but there have been a few times where I felt weightless, and as still as statue, and stopped breathing. It also felt like my head was detached and it was floating in space and there was a sense of bliss coming from within. It is hard to describe. Somehow my meditation was done and I remember eventually opening my eyes and looked at the clock and realized hours had passed but it felt like a only a few minutes.

Anyways, samadhi doesn't come just by meditation. One must be a good person and help others. It is my ultimate goal in life. Samadhi and also Ducati =)
 

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Well then I may be shunned lol because I can promise you this, I shall not spend stupid money on this 900ss to do so called upgrades. I am more interested in keeping it as close as stock original as I can, This is a street bike for me & I am not going out on the track with this bike. Hell if I wanted to go really fast I would have kept my M.V. Agusta 750 F4 Neiman Marcus , That thing was freeking fast at least after you got over 7K rpm lol. Some Bikes I purchase to enjoy as they were meant to be this 900ss is one of those
The whole idea of the mods isn't to turn the 900 into a modern track monster. It's to just make it more fun. Heck - if I want to go blazingly fast, I'll take my wife's Bandit 1200 out (same vintage as my 900, and also has had the Ohlins treatment - it turns in faster than my 900 does, is super stable, and rockets out of corners :yeah: - and is deadly to my licence. :( ).

The mods I've done make my bike no faster in a straight line (200 kph flat out), but it gets there a lot faster than it used to, has a nice fat torque laden midrange, sounds like a Ducati is supposed to, and can still hustle along at full throttle - I can't really pass anything - but I can keep them in sight down the straights, and reel then in under brakes and through most corners, and my tyres never wear out with a flat spot in the middle of the tread. ;) The fact that I still have to work the throttle more than just a twitch, and push the bike to get to silly speeds, keeps my licence in my pocket, and money out of the legal system. Plus I've trained (yep - that took a few years) myself to go slow (speed limit) on the straight bits, and fast on the twisty bits - which also helps explain why my tyres wear round...
 

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Ok, so I've read this entire thread. Really informative.

However, I have to wonder ... if the ST2 cams are actually some sort of magic mojo made by elves living in trees, why haven't they been copied, micron for micron, by a production cam grinder?

Having been deeply involved in manufacturing hand made musical instruments, hand made audio processing gear, hand built synthesizers and vintage Hammond organ upgrades, as well as hand built all tube guitar/bass amps ... not to mention designing and building BMX, motorcycle, desert racing Quad/ATVs frames and suspension sets as well as off road racing/desert racing pickup trucks... I have to say I am very skeptical of "improvements" that cannot be quantified and are more myth and mojo than fact.

What I am NOT saying is that anyone who adopts the use of ST2 cams and likes what they've done is "stupid" or easily mislead. Let's make sure we all understand that before torches are lit and pitchforks are handed out.

From where I stand, it would make more sense to go with readily available cams (such as the ones at that Kaema outfit) that can be replaced with another profile available from the same supplier if different engine/power curve/response characteristics are desired after their baseline offering has been tried.

As I said, my skepticism radar goes on high alert anytime I hear/read of how well some unobtainable (or nearly so) part or piece is reported to work, with the only supporting evidence being "it/they just made it better" (whatever "it" may be).

Another thing, when the ST2 cams take a shit (oiling issue cooks them, or some other catastrophic failure kills them) then the quest for even less available ST2 cams resumes to repeat the engine build. To me, with my admittedly low degree of experience with Ducati motorcycles, it just makes more sense to go with something akin to those Kaema cam sets or other readily available profile.

Allow the ass kicking to commence. >:)


:wink2:
 

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Yea, not breathing can kinda do that to ya .... >:)



:wink2:
Lol. Yeah, typically when someone experiences hypoxia the side effects are confusion, dizziness, change in skin color, etc. and they eventually pass out. In Kriya Yoga that doesn't happen; we experience bliss for an extended period of time and while alert and conscious.

In higher practices of meditation the heart drops to levels that Western medicine would consider deadly. Some advanced yogis can stop their heart, like Paramhansa Yogananda could do.

This challenges Western thought, but yogis have done this for thousands of years. We are slowly accepting some ideas of Eastern mysticism and occultism because we now have physical equipment to measure certain things. In the meantime, I think it is wisest from one's own direct experience with a phenomenon, and maintain neutral in light of new information.

Anyway, enough meditation talk from me. I am thread-jacking for sure. Feel free to PM if you want to chat more.
 

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The ST2 cams are not the best (whatever that is to anyone) or worst cams they were just the hottest oem cam that fit many 2 valve pantahs. Veetwo as well as Kaemna make cams that are well made cams, there may be others. I know that some have been sent out to be replicated but un fortunatly it is not that easy for some reason. A few years back I loaned some cams to Bruce Meyers (Ducati tuner) and he sent them off for digitizing and replicating. After the cam company (major US cam company) had them for 4 months I needed them back for my customers job so we never had any luck.

I do not know the issue but it likely boils down to cost as always. $800-1200 for a set of cams vs a set of good used cams out of a st2 used to be a easy decision but as the st2 cams get scarce they get pricey too and at that point you might be better off with something else. VeeTwo had a grind that made really good gains but would scissor bind and ate 1/2 rings ,every weekend they were destroyed. We tried the MBP collets and tripled the life, yep 3 weekends and broken collets. Some times power is not all that important .
 

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life and cams

If I may chime in here with real world data,mind numbing experience,and some un tested thoughts!!??
One comment : HP costs money...how much HP can you afford?
You can throw a lot of money into our 900 SS biikes...but you will still have a bike thats slower than a modern 600.
You can modify to your hearts content but the bike will still be an older Ducati.
I have enough money in my 900SS that I could apl;so have purchased a Hyper 1100 nicely sorted used.
I have the preferred mods
Composite Fuel cell
Showas
Ohlins shock
Powder coated red frame
Cycle Cat Upper triple
dual heqadlamp front fairing(s)
CF Mono rear
CF plate holder
944 kit with 11.5/1 Hi comp pistons (Millenium sourced)
ST2 Cams
relocated oil cooler
polished rear muffler hangers modified from stock
polished rear sets(stock)
Polished SP al. swingarm
powder coated Metmachix swingarm
CZ Wheels
CRG levers
41mm banked FCRs
40 (41??)tooth reaR SPROCKET
180 rear Q3
120 Front Q3
Add 2100.00 for what I paid for Valves,porting,and reassembly
I could have purchased a 2010 or newer Hyper or older low mileage Superbike for less than I have invested in my SS...no including purchase price of bike!!
I finally purchased a 2012 Strettfighter and have enjoyed this beast of a bike!!!
But I am loving my 900 SS still!!
Ill finish the build...and ride it some...
but my final thought is we do what we do to these bikes to further our enjoyment of these wonderful bikes...and what we spend on them is secondary to our love of them.
To answer the cam question the ST2 cams will build better throttle in the mid rpm.
They are great ca ms for street use..where lower RPM and torque are king!!
My 2cents...
Mike S
 

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Same here Mike. I bought an S4RS and of course it out performs the old SS in every way. Still I keep modifying the old girl in all kinds of ways and dumping money into it, though not near like you have. I don’t regret it a bit.
 
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