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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I want actual FACTS not here say or opinions regarding lithium batterys ONLY not AGM, Lead acid or battery chargers.
JUST LITHIUM BATTERYS!!

I've been told to stay away from lithium ion batteries due to possible internal failure causing uncontrollable combustion....not good when the cause of said fire is under my ass.

I've also been told lithium iron ones are what I need......they supposedly don't have the self combustion feature.

I'm extremely confused & just about given up.... So what BRAND of battery is made of lithium iron? Or is all this actually what I'm looking for?

Here's what I want/need for a 1100 hyper
#1 lightweight
#2 won't self combust
#3 vibration/shock resistant
#4 can be mounted sideways/upside down
#5 reasonably reliable
#6 only used & stored above 60°
#7 capable of cranking a cold 60° temp, 1220cc V twin with 13.1 pistons & 15-50 oil
#8 able to do the same as #7 when hot
#9 I already have 00 high strand welding cables for battery leads.

I'd like answers from actual users that ride ALOT like 8000 HARD miles a year and occasionally on questionable road serfaces with square edged potholes
 

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I run EatthX. It has been bulletproof, I use a cheap ass battery tender ( the non desulpher cycle one). And have never had a problem. You need to let it sit a bit in the cold before cranking. I usually turn the key, put my gear on, and go like hell. They're so light, it's unbelievable. And EarthX is good peeps. Can make anything you want.

I would advise a higher cranking rating than what is advertised for our hypers. I'm sure if you contact them, they'll know.
 

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1999 996 Biposto, 2002 Monster 620 Dark
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That is correct, lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries are unstable when exposed to oxygen. I have been using lithium batteries for more than 20 years in various hobbies, li-ion batteries are great but yeah I wouldnt put one under my ass either.

Lithium-iron are stable and if safety is a concern definitely what you want. There are more manufacturers using Li-iron at this point but make sure if they dont list it. I also use EarthX but have also used Shorai. Motobatt list theirs as li-iron, Antigravity list theirs as li-ion.

Also using a battery that has a BMS will make it last longer. That is one of the reasons I went with EarthX after using a couple of Shorais. If the voltage drops to a certain point the EarthX battery will "disconnect" and not run the battery flat. That is the only downside to lithium-iron, if you drain them flat they will die. You should never discharge them below 2V per cell.

 

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1999 996 Biposto, 2002 Monster 620 Dark
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And to those that think you cant use lithium batteries in cold climates, I have two Nasa white papers evaluating lithium-iron cells. These things are the shiznit. There was a video floating around on one of the RC forums I frequented where a guy in Canada used a 4 cell lithium-iron to start a Honda civic in -10C weather.

BTW EarthX started out making batteries for the aerospace industry. Then branched into motorsports racing. And now sell retail. They know what they are doing.
 

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So ... I'm curious here ... what type (class?) of rechargeable batts do the twelve billion cel phones and a bazillion laptops use?

"Exposed the O2" ... what does this mean, the casing cracked or broke (somehow) and allowed O2 to make contact with the elements inside?

I thought most of the failures were due to trying to charge the batts too fast (heating them up)?
 

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I want actual FACTS not here say or opinions regarding lithium batterys ONLY not AGM, Lead acid or battery chargers.
JUST LITHIUM BATTERYS!!
So to be clear, you just want information on LITHIUM BATTERIES, right? You were a bit vague.

:)

*hearsay .. as in "I heard someone say".
 

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So ... I'm curious here ... what type (class?) of rechargeable batts do the twelve billion cel phones and a bazillion laptops use?

"Exposed the O2" ... what does this mean, the casing cracked or broke (somehow) and allowed O2 to make contact with the elements inside?

I thought most of the failures were due to trying to charge the batts too fast (heating them up)?
Most cell phones and laptops have lithium-ion or lithium-polymer.

Lithium is not stable in oxygen. Yes, the cell becomes ruptured and exposed the lithium to oxygen which causes it to combust. Lithium-iron is stable when exposed to oxygen and will not do this. Thats not to say they wont short out and things get exciting but they arent going to explode like a bomb.

Over charging can cause them to fail but usually they dont fail catastrophically unless you push them well beyond their limits. Remember the exploding Sony laptop batteries? The batteries were contaminated during production and the contaminant eventually caused the cells short.
 

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Most cell phones and laptops have lithium-ion or lithium-polymer.

Lithium is not stable in oxygen. Yes, the cell becomes ruptured and exposed the lithium to oxygen which causes it to combust. Lithium-iron is stable when exposed to oxygen and will not do this. Thats not to say they wont short out and things get exciting but they arent going to explode like a bomb.

Over charging can cause them to fail but usually they dont fail catastrophically unless you push them well beyond their limits. Remember the exploding Sony laptop batteries? The batteries were contaminated during production and the contaminant eventually caused the cells short.
So then the Lion batt is no more risky than the plastic case full of lead and sulfuric acid that we've been carting around for 75-odd years? In either situation a failed enclosure results in damage and/or injury? In either case overcharging can cause serious problems? I'm just trying to put the risk factor into real life context here, I'm not trying to be a shithead or contrarian.

I've been using an Anti-Grav in our 3/4 ton pickup for three years now. I live in the desert southwest, the heat cycles our roads are put through make for rough and poorly kept surfaces, as well as dirt roads .. all amplified by the 3/4 ton suspension of the truck. So far all is well.

I owned/operated a factory authorized warranty and repair center that represented pretty much every major power tool manufacturer anyone has likely heard of .... fifteen years, over eighty work orders per week. We also represented/repaired industrial charging systems for industrial fork lifts and the like. All in all, over forty manufacturers. So this topic always seems to catch my interest, battery tech is interesting stuff.

.
 

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So then the Lion batt is no more risky than the plastic case full of lead and sulfuric acid that we've been carting around for 75-odd years? In either situation a failed enclosure results in damage and/or injury? In either case overcharging can cause serious problems? I'm just trying to put the risk factor into real life context here, I'm not trying to be a shithead or contrarian.
Li-ion are more risky, how many times in all those years have you seen a lead acid battery explode and catch fire? Having been in auto parts and service before I got into IT I have seen some pretty crazy battery meltdowns, but none like what you will see happen with a lithium battery.

Li-iron are not more risky as there is no more inherent danger from a li-iron battery as a lead acid one.

I wouldnt hesitate to put a lithium ion battery in my car. Im not putting one between my legs.

Tesla uses lithium-ion batteries. And for those unaware, you cant put out a lithium fire with water. It burns until all the lithium is consumed.
 

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Here is some chit chat for those that are unaware, while everyone is losing their minds about how EV's are the future. This is how the lithium in your EV battery is mined. Very ecologically friendly right.

View attachment 1046322
That's a copper mine. I hope you're equally upset about them.
 

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Another here-here on the EarthX. I put one in my Hyper in late ‘19 and it’s still rocking. I throw a Battery Tender Jr. on it once or twice over the dead months of say Dec. to March. Seems like it gets to fully charged in 5 minutes. Definitely better tick over than AGM, etc. This is on a stock engine, stock battery cabled Hyper.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
My 3 year old yuasa lead acid works perfectly now the only reason I'm switching to EarthX is weight. This Friday while it's still raining I'm installing an aluminum subframe, aluminum bolts for everything attaching to it & EarthX battery.

Along with aluminum front axel & kickstsnd, next week is carbon wheels along with Dunlop Q5's
That's right I said Q5's (I have my connections as long as he can find me some) there suposed to be a Q4 with a longer lasting center section for street use.....We'll see about that.
 
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