[ih574]

Hi all,

I have a 2008 M695 Monster. This is the last of the 600/620 family before the major changes to the next generation model (696), so it has the same basic layout as those earlier models along with a Magneti Marelli IAW 59M or a 5AM ECU.

I swapped the stock slip-ons for some Dan Moto GP units, mainly to balance out the looks and get a little more Ducati voice into the exhaust note. No other changes from stock to the engine. Now the engine is running a bit rough in the low RPM range (3K-5K). I expect it is running lean based on very clean, nearly white spark plug insulators and some after-firing pops on decel.

I know I could take it to a dyno, but I am a Do-it-Myself type and I'd really like to figure out how to correct this. I've thought about ECU tools and exhaust gas analyzers, involving modifying CO trim and revising maps (using GuzziDiag, JPDiag, Gunson Gastester, etc.), but want to make sure that's a reasonable approach. I've used Power Commanders in other bikes with and without Autotune ($$$), but DynoJet doesn't seem to support the Monster 695 specifically (though they seem to support other bikes with the 59M ECU using the PCIII). I'm happy getting a reflash, but that seems to be a shot in the dark without going to the Dyno. I've searched for some solutions or ideas, but none pop out as obvious short of dropping off at a dealer. Some things I've read:

Afterfiring: https://www.ducati.ms/forums/80-hall-wisdom/27908-backfiring.html
ECU and Maps: https://www.ducati.ms/forums/241-tech-forum/348730-ecu-maps-repository.html
CO Trim: https://www.ducati.ms/forums/40-sport-touring/687145-co-trim.html

Given one of the use cases of this bike (slow speed running around town), I'd really like it to run smoother in the 3.5K to 6K region where it's rough right now. I sure would appreciate some ideas and advice from folks who may have experience in this area.

r-

Tom C.

 

[belter]

695 ecu is closed loop. flash it to be open loop, reset tps, set idle mxiture. that will be a good starting point.

 

[ih574]

695 ecu is closed loop. flash it to be open loop, reset tps, set idle mxiture. that will be a good starting point.

Thank you. Got an ODB II cable from lonelec.co.uk and used GuzziDiag to see what was going on with the ECU. Then used IAWreader to download the ECU bin file. Used TunerPro to update the main fuel map using a Monster 2V DP ECU fuel map, turned off two lambda sensors (even though bike only has one), and disabled the immobolizer. Then used IAWwriter to upload back into a backup ECU (from ebay so as not to brick my known good one). Did lots of TPS resets along the way with GuzziDiag. Seems to run much better, though I've only taken it on a couple test rides at different ambient temperatures. So far so good. Keeping an eye on plug color until I get to a dyno run or discover some better way of validating the goodness of the flash.

 

[belter]

which "Monster 2V DP ECU fuel map" did you use? if the xdf you used had options for two lambda sensors it's probably not the right xdf. there's lots of little differences between variants used on ducatis, even for the same model.

 

[ih574]

which "Monster 2V DP ECU fuel map" did you use? if the xdf you used had options for two lambda sensors it's probably not the right xdf. there's lots of little differences between variants used on ducatis, even for the same model.

I poured through this and other forums and sites to find an XDF and DP map. I've attached the XDF I used (which indicated it applied to the M695). My downloaded bin file seemed to align to the XDF parameters, though there were some unknown areas. In some of the threads I was reading, there were some observations that some XDFs may include more than one lambda parameters. I gathered that the same XDF could apply to machines with two O2 sensors.

I could not find the complete M695 DP bin. The only map I could find was a picture of the DP fuel map along with pictures of the stock fuel map and a delta/changes map. The stock map matched the map I downloaded from my stock ECU. So I old-schooled (typed) in the delta values and applied them to my stock values in a spreadsheet. Then I validated those numbers against the DP picture, copied the updated map into TunerPro and saved the bin.

All these unknowns are why I found another M695 IAW 5AM ECU for this experimentation, keeping my known good ECU on the shelf.

 

[belter]

the "two lambdas" are not two lambdas, which some models have. you turn off both the lambda sensor and the heater for the lambda sensor. do the first one only and it will log a fault if you unplug it for the heater. for a twin lambda sensor bike you turn off 3 things.

if you right click on a "flag" or "table" and then on 'edit parameter xdf info" it will show you where in the file the thing you're modifying starts - be it 1 byte or 640. then if you go to to "tools" > "advanced" > "hex editor" you can go to the address in the file and see what has changed. often good for flags when it's really not at all clear what's happening when you check or uncheck.

you can also cut and paste into and out of tunerpro to/from a spreadsheet.

 

[ih574]

Thank Belter. I've attached a screenshot of the TunerPro screen with some of the Flag parameters opened. The Parameters window at bottom is showing where each of the alternative lambda settings is located in the bin. Are you saying that on a single O2 sensor engine like the M695, that the Lambda 2 parameter is actually the O2 sensor heater? Right now I have them both unchecked (set to 00) and have no CEL warnings. I think I checked GuzziDiag for faults after I uploaded this bin and test rode it and no faults were logged. I assume that is good?

I notice some of the XDF parameters overlap (the Immobilizer is the same location (4D144) as the S2R 800 Lambda 1). S2R was in that same mid 2000s time frame so I assume it has an immobilizer also. Seems these XDF files are a bit trial and error? Or maybe the S2R 800 doesn't have an immobilizer and Ducati used this bin location for the lambda?

I do know that in my original stock bin, these locations (4D144 - 4D146) were all set as "01." In my modified bin, they are all "00."

This stuff is pretty interesting, but would be good to know I'm changing parameters I think I'm changing. Seems I have to trust the XDF author for that.

 

[belter]

the xdf "definition file" is something that someone who has nothing to do with marelli made to try to interpret the important bits from the hex file from the ecu. it's only as good as the person who made it and relevant only to the version of the file they were looking at. people don't seem to get that point. it's nothing official from marelli. that info simply doesn't exist in any official form outside of marelli.

there are many, many variants of the ducati ecu files that vary often very minutely - some things in the same place, a few bytes added somewhere and then other stuff is off. often spark map info will be correct, fuel map not so. and you might see a sequence that is the same, but not in the same place. that's just how it is. what is in the file is what you work with. rigid rules apply, put something in the wrong place and stuff other than what you expect (which may or may not be noticeable) will happen.

if you have a good ecu hex file interpreter, like winols, all this stuff is much more obvious, and you can see the maps in particular. i use winhex to look at the basic file and see where everything non map format is and to edit that stuff. it's a much simpler hex editor and viewer than the tunerpro hex display, and has a great compare function.

moto guzzi, by contrast, have two base file variants of the 5am - single lambda and dual lambda. that's it. much easier. the ducati ones vary as things go on too - the 1198 has more fuel based maps and of different configurations to a 999, so the files are very different. just how it is.