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Bon Vivant
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I see things both ways here. The law suit is ridiculous and the lawyers will always be the big winners in these things. But when I go to a track day I'd like be assured that the run-off areas of the track are clear and clean. Track days are full of riders of all abilities and there are sure to be run-offs - the very least an operator can do is make sure those areas are obstruction free.
 

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People go to the track because they think it 'safe(r)' than riding on the street. This, even though the speeds are much higher (than what's legal on the street) and there are, and will forever be, things to hit at said speeds. This twit ran out of talent at not-even-high-speed. Given his trajectory, even without the sandbag, he'd have hit the wall beyond and still been injured. And, I'd bet, he'd still be suing.

Yes, that's a bit of 'ifs and buts' and coulda/shoulda/woulda'. But, what if somebody (anybody) HAD asked to move the bags? Would it/they have been moved? Don't know. Likely answer would have been something like 'we'll have to ask SCRAMP'. SCRAMP would have said 'we'll have to ask the county'. They would have said 'we'll have to ask the CalEPA and the MPWMP (look them up). They would have said 'we'll have to ask the CSWRCB' (look that one up too). Of course, they would have taken months to accomplish in this age of information.

:rolleyes:
 

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I have ridden a bunch of tracks on the east coast from Calabogie in Canada to Barber in Alabama and most in between. Almost all of them have spots where you can get hurt if you run off the track, some have Granite walls close enough that you keep them in mind. There are tracks that have ditches and others that have armco, a track is NOT a guaranty of safety if YOU run off the track.

I am sorry that he got hurt and in this country it is common for people to look to cash in and search out some deep pockets to sue, welcome to the new American lottery. If he chose to ride the track he should be aware that crashing can be deadly let alone hurtful, it may be a life altering accident. If people are NOT willing to take these risks then they should stick to video games this is not the fault of anyone but the person who chose to play a dangerous game and suffer the consequences.

I know many people in the last 20 years of track riding who have been hurt, one death and knowledge of a couple more. I personally have fallen 4 times, twice due to other riders hitting me . Last year I had to close my business for a few months to recover from a broken leg, did it stink? oh yeah! Was it the fault of anyone other than myself? Absolutely NOT.

I chose to enter the sport.
I chose to go to the event.
I chose the group to ride with.
I chose to go the speed I was going.
I made a mistake............
I own that mistake ,learn from it and move on. That they call a life lesson do not blame others for your mistake.
 

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Anytime you throw a leg over a motorcycle you accept risk from others and responsibility for your own actions. That lawsuit is bs. A tractor parked in the corkscrew would be gross negligence, a sandbag in a field? You can't drive off of a road into someones house then blame the home owner.

t_bare
 
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The least that a rider can do is......no, MUST do, is to inspect the track and determine if it is up to his/her own personal standards. Every track is different has its own weak points. Consider Roebling Road. The back has places with tire walls that are not that far from the race course, and run off is rather short. We assess the risk of riding and the risk associated with the track and make a decision. That is really what the waiver is telling you to do!

Race or track day, there's a warm up lap. If I saw sand bags that close to the track, I'd either try to get them removed or make damn sure I went gingerly through that part. Was he trying to win the track day trophy? Kim blindly just let others make his decisions for him. Then, the "experienced" Kim clearly just rode the F off the track. Anybody knows that you always do everything possible to stay on the track, even taking lean angle to full tilt boogie.

Gross negligence can certainly exist at the track. This ain't it. I would love to see it when he's asked when he first noticed that there were sand bags there....any answer should cook his goose.
 

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to me it seems like the track should be responsible, because they are responsible for the work done to it. the only reason they are going after the promoter is because the promoter had insurance for the event.
 

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I agree that the lawsuit is bs. No one heald a gun to his head (that I know of) and told him he had to do a track day.
That being said ,I don't think it is out of the question to expect the track owners to remove the sand bags and rake the run off areas for an upcoming motorcycle track day. That whole length of staightaway after the corner was pretty craggy with erosion and could be determined as negligent, at least as far as maintenance goes.
Tough call...and no, I'm not a lawyer!
 

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Bon Vivant
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I've gone off track a couple of times in my 5 years of track days. luckily I've hit nothing and did not go down. Both times because I failed to properly set-up for the turns. Both times the speed wasnt excessive to make the turn but my head just had not caught up to my location yet.

At a separate track day about mid-way through the day I noticed that some rain had washed away enough edging that a huge ravine had formed next to the track on an outside down hill section at the exit of a turn and realized that a run-off there would surely send me off the bike in a violent manner. I was slower through that turn the rest of the day. That one obstacle would be the difference between a non issue off track stroll and a trip to the hospital or worse. Most of these track operators are car oriented, for a car its no big deal but motorcycles require more care with run-out areas. I do think it is the responsibility of the track owner/manager to make sure these hazards are managed before a track is opened for motorcycles.
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Yeah the guy was not the greatest rider and yeah its a dangerous sport. But these dangers can be minimized with just a little bit of responsible attention. If I were promoting motorcycle track day events I'd make damn sure that run-out areas were clear of obstacles, not to cover my ass, but to make the track as safe as possible for riders.

I dont think any of those sand bags should have been there.
 

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You guys are talking Personal Responsibility. Integrity, Character. One of you even had the gall to suggest the plaintiff examine the track before he put his life at risk. God damn right wing republicans is what you all are. Don’t you know this is the New America, there are more democrats and socialists than all of the other people combined. Incompetence, Marijuana, and making everyone else pay for your lifestyle are the new orders of the day. If you don’t get up to speed fast and start stealing everyone else’s money, then by the time it’s your turn to sue someone there won’t be any money left !>:)
 

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Went down on turn 6 at New Hampshire Motor Speedway, hit hard, cooked the rod bearings on my 999s, cracked three ribs. Sucks. Bad riding on my part. Cost me about about $4K in engine and equipment replacement, not to mention medical bills.

When Steve at ECS asked if I was going to make an insurance claim, I replied "what?" as I truly had never thought of doing that.

Now, as some of you guys know, I'm very liberal on many things—health care, education, etc.—but I also think that anyone goes to the track needs to take responsibility for their actions. If I'd have been paralyzed, I never would have sued.

How do I know? When my first wife died 30 years ago, I was presented with the opportunity to sue Kaiser for her treatment, and could have made a very good case. Net—I could have made some money for me and my daughter. But I didn't want to either profit from my wife's death or encumber those in the health care system of Kaiser Permanente with the expense for our suit.

Let's be honest: the money never comes from the insurance companies or the shareholders, it comes from the poor jerks who have no other alternative but to purchase that insurance. So I chose the high road. We've done well financially since, but I'm happy that I didn't go down that that path and have had to live with the knowledge that others had to be burdened with our own tragedy.

It's about personal integrity. This guy should have chosen a different path.

Ron
 

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For a track of this notariety to have such shitty drainage is a (bad) joke.
It wouldn't take much money, time or effort to clean that run off area up.
The rider obviously over cooked the corner(who hasn't), his bad, but put yourself in his helmet, as you're cartwheeling your Pani and self down the track...now sitting on your couch with a broken femur, replaying that moment in your head...you might be a little pissed off that those sand bags were left there.
 

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The part that caught my eye was the fact that he didn't show up for the rider's meeting. Maybe the organizer should enforce a "no attend, no participate" rule. That was the rule at AFM and WSMC races "back in my day". Of course, I imagine enforcement was less than perfect.... If you were the number 1 plate holder, or a front-runner in any class, everyone would notice if you didn't show up. If you were some dipshit like me who would run around in 9th (or 15th) place...the only people who would notice would be the guys who would typically be in 10th or 16th.

The other part is the signed waiver. I have never participated in any race or track day where I didn't sign a waiver.

That is a contract, and in my limited understanding of contract law (two semesters of college, quite a few years ago) contracts are binding.

Of course, the fact that anyone can sue anyone for anything, any time, with no consequence...yeah, that is a problem. "Loser pays" would cut out a lot of BS. Not going to happen as long as 95% of legislators are also lawyers.

I think Shakespeare had it right. :)
 

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For a track of this notariety to have such shitty drainage is a (bad) joke.
It wouldn't take much money, time or effort to clean that run off area up.
The rider obviously over cooked the corner(who hasn't), his bad, but put yourself in his helmet, as you're cartwheeling your Pani and self down the track...now sitting on your couch with a broken femur, replaying that moment in your head...you might be a little pissed off that those sand bags were left there.

Ever been there/dealt with the entities controlling the track? Answer: no, you haven't. I wansn't exaggerating with my previous post.
 
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For a track of this notariety to have such shitty drainage is a (bad) joke.
It wouldn't take much money, time or effort to clean that run off area up.
The rider obviously over cooked the corner(who hasn't), his bad, but put yourself in his helmet, as you're cartwheeling your Pani and self down the track...now sitting on your couch with a broken femur, replaying that moment in your head...you might be a little pissed off that those sand bags were left there.

Ever been there/dealt with the entities controlling the track? Answer: no, you haven't. I wansn't exaggerating with my previous post.
You are correct, I have never "dealt with the entities controlling the track",
but I having been in the construction industry for 30 yrs. which gives me some insight into proper draining techniques.
The fact that you have to go through a bunch of bureaucratic bs to get something done at any venue doesn't excuse negligence and that will probably be the basis for that guys lawsuit. As I understand it, you can waive liability, you cannot waive an incident of negligence.
Doesn't make it right , just makes it the way it is.
 

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Article doesn't seem to indicate this is the case, but sometimes HC insurance companies won't give you a choice. Don't agree to the lawsuit, ok...no coverage b/c you were willfully endangering yourself.

BTW...I'm in the anti-lawsuit camp. This crap is why we can't have nice things. Either way, Lit Motors...RIP.
 

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What a pussy. Kim blew the turn due to lack of skill or his inattention. Suck it up and live with it instead of looking for a free lunch at every track riders expense! You leave the track, bad things generally happen--with or without sandbags.
 

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These lawsuits drive up the cost of trackdays for everyone using the track as the operators do not have the profit margin to just absorb the increased insurance cost. Theu have to pass it along.
 
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