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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Shown here is what I found upon disassembly of the vertical valve train.
I haven't yet done the H cylinder yet; I'm hopeing I'll wake up and it will just be a dream. Also shown here is a 5 mm slide hammer I made to pull the rocker shafts. Works real slick and quick.

Oh hell, it's Friday night; I think i'll have myself a Beer and forget about it.
 

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flakes

What model Ducati and year? What made you inspect the rockers in the first place, metal in the oil, etc?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Flakes

I bought the 2000 748s last Fall with 6500 miles on the clock and decided to do the 6000 mile sevice and change the belts.
 

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if that's flakes i'm 1500miles on flaked rocker arms and don't care one bit. no problems with running um. i got the bike cheap cuz it needed valve adjustment. i knew nothing about where the flaking occured on the arms back then other than a ducati was a ducati and it had valve problems, and didn't check into it till now. i figured flaking would be where the arm contacts the valve shim, how wrong i was.

+1 reason to abuse my engine.
 

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Namor said:
if that's flakes i'm 1500miles on flaked rocker arms and don't care one bit. no problems with running um. i got the bike cheap cuz it needed valve adjustment. i knew nothing about where the flaking occured on the arms back then other than a ducati was a ducati and it had valve problems, and didn't check into it till now. i figured flaking would be where the arm contacts the valve shim, how wrong i was.

+1 reason to abuse my engine.
dude - go for it. your cams are probably trashed by now. not long behind, you'll find that your valve gap is increasing. I've seen the valves break at the grooves and the valves drop into the cylinder from this wild-ass slapping action.
 

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Gforce said:
I bought the 2000 748s last Fall with 6500 miles on the clock and decided to do the 6000 mile sevice and change the belts.
a new rocker is now about $50. much better than when it was $225 each. New ones will also flake. But it's cheap. Or you can go to megacycle for their treatments - $89 and it'll never flake again.

MBP replates. I have no experience with their replates. But I have confidence in Guy Martin. BCM was/is replating, but I've seen one, out of two of their replated rockers in an engine they rebuilt, flake.

the flakes can also cause problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm not surprised by the rocker wear after seeing the finish quality of the cam lobes.

Thanks for your input. i'm just glad this is a second bike (K1200Rs).
These Italian jobs are a PItheA to work on.
 

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Buckelew said:
dude - go for it. your cams are probably trashed by now. not long behind, you'll find that your valve gap is increasing. I've seen the valves break at the grooves and the valves drop into the cylinder from this wild-ass slapping action.

i can't tell if you are being cynical or serious, i'll check the clearances tonight, but regardless of the results i'm taking your advice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Rocker Update

Half of the openners are toast and at least two of the closers. It appears that the desolving chrome on the rockers deposits on the cam lobes as splatters, and once that happens what's left of the rocker surface is destroyed. I managed to take some emmery cloth and clean up the lobes so they actually look better than new.

I may end up pulling the heads to put this all back together; unless I can find a dealer that will take over and warranty my rockers etc..

I can't believe there is only 7k miles on the is motor. I always wondered what it would be like to own something Italian made.
 

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Gforce,

I like your slide hammer. I never thought of using a socket great idea. I'm still in the process of doing my valves (12 months now) looked at the first rocker arm and it didn't look as bad as yours but still starting to grey. I think I'm going to go with mbp's.
Anyways good look and thanks for the hammer idea.
 

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will someone post a pic of new arms? i couldn't find one. btw i checked my clearances today on my valves and they've not changed a bit. still a best spec.
 

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I bought a spare set of heads from a 1998 748 that I basically picked up for the shims (both complete heads and cylinders were quite $100). I use them to practice valve adjustments and to show people how to check their valves. I'd say at least half of the rockers have flaked, and at least two of them are worn fairly heavily into the metal on the rocker. The previous owner broke a belt and trashed two intake valves, also.....but like I said, they are great learning tools, and I can show people what to look for when spotting flakey rockers.
 

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I was being both, cynical and serious. I read your posting as "I've got flakes, I'll keep running them anyway." and that the bike is "throw-away".

Keep running it and it'll keep running for a while. It'll make things more expensive to fix - if you ever decide to fix it.

It's completely your decision whether to maintain your bike or not. I think that was my point. Just letting you know what could happen if you decide to keep running it with flaking rockers.


Namor said:
i can't tell if you are being cynical or serious, i'll check the clearances tonight, but regardless of the results i'm taking your advice.
 

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The bike IS more difficult to work on than a K-bike....unless you have to deal with the transmission or rear drive, or alternator.

The finish on the rockers is different than the BMW. With you BMW, it's a chrome finish, IIRC (I'll check when doing a valve adjustment on my K1200LT in the next few weeks) - perfect for spring-actuated valves. With the Duc, the cams are black - they're Parkerized - a phosphate coating that makes the cams pretty damn hard. They're not pretty. especially if you compare them to the usual Chevy V-8 cams that many of us are used to seeing.

With cams, you want both contact surfaces to be as hard as possible.


Gforce said:
I'm not surprised by the rocker wear after seeing the finish quality of the cam lobes.

Thanks for your input. i'm just glad this is a second bike (K1200Rs).
These Italian jobs are a PItheA to work on.
 

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Gforce said:
Half of the openners are toast and at least two of the closers. It appears that the desolving chrome on the rockers deposits on the cam lobes as splatters, and once that happens what's left of the rocker surface is destroyed. I managed to take some emmery cloth and clean up the lobes so they actually look better than new.

I may end up pulling the heads to put this all back together; unless I can find a dealer that will take over and warranty my rockers etc..

I can't believe there is only 7k miles on the is motor. I always wondered what it would be like to own something Italian made.
sorry to hear about it. If I may suggest, after hitting the cams with emery cloth, hit them with a stone - a good stone is about 1500 grit and will give you a better surface.

And you're absolutely right; the rocker material does get deposited onto the cams. I'd suggest taking the cams to an "old time" auto machine shop and see if they have a cam house that they would recommend take a look at your cams to make sure you haven't gone through the hardened layer.
 

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boardrider247 said:
Gforce,

I like your slide hammer. I never thought of using a socket great idea. I'm still in the process of doing my valves (12 months now) looked at the first rocker arm and it didn't look as bad as yours but still starting to grey. I think I'm going to go with mbp's.
Anyways good look and thanks for the hammer idea.
A slide hammer is the ONLY way to pull the pins - it's SO easy.

The grey patches are cracks. If you look at them under high magnification, you'll see that the grey patches are where the hard chrome layer is thinning and has cracked. You MAY be able to get to the next valve adjustment with the grey patches - but there are no guarantees. No way to tell how long they'll last.

I suggest changing them when the grey patches start showing up.
 

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Namor said:
will someone post a pic of new arms? i couldn't find one. btw i checked my clearances today on my valves and they've not changed a bit. still a best spec.
New arms are chrome plated and shiny. rocker arms that are not defectively plated just get shinier in the contact areas - it's called "burnishing". The rotating cams, with a layer of oil, knock off the plating peaks and the area just gets shinier.
 

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you da' man, Mr. Demon. Nice to have those demo/practice heads available.

For shims; www.EMSDUC.com - you can pick up a set from Mike. I don't know if he sells individuals, but his sets are a hell of a bargain. He's a great guy and sells a good product. Or maybe it's the other way around.


Desmo_Demon said:
I bought a spare set of heads from a 1998 748 that I basically picked up for the shims (both complete heads and cylinders were quite $100). I use them to practice valve adjustments and to show people how to check their valves. I'd say at least half of the rockers have flaked, and at least two of them are worn fairly heavily into the metal on the rocker. The previous owner broke a belt and trashed two intake valves, also.....but like I said, they are great learning tools, and I can show people what to look for when spotting flakey rockers.
 
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