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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

The problem that i have to solve is much complex than just replacing the
regular air filter to open one. I have Ducati Indiana 650 (89) and
I bought Ducati 800SS (2005) engine to install it inside.
I also have throttle bodies with injectors, ECU, airbox with sensors,
most of electric system, and the fuel pump. But I can not place
the original air box in the bike cause the Indiana frame, so I will have to
build one another by myself and to use some another custum air filter.
If i understand well the only input to ECU from outside of the engine
is from sensors in airbox ? So changing of air filter can influence in some way
to it's mesurments ? Do I have to change the progam in ECU in some way ?

I will happy to listen to every good advice, If you have some links to
articles or another forum topics ralated to similar problems, please send it to me. I would happy to read it.

Thank you,
Igor.
 

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the early 900 i.e. bikes had one sensor for the ECU only*, and that is
the temperatur ( ambient not engine ) sensor, that is mounted inside
the front fairing support.

later 1000 i.e. bikes ( similar to your 800 i think ) also have got an engine
temperatur sensor, that is located in the horizontal cylinders inlet-valve cover.

these bikes have no sensors within the Airbox at all, changing the airbox will
not alter the information given to the ECU.

if you need to re-map the ECU ( different possibilities here, power commander
is quite common, tuneboy seems to be much more sophisticated though,
you could have your stock ECU flashed with a different map by your
ducati dealer too )
will be shown after you have put everything back together and have done
some test rides, on a dyno or on the road with a Lambda measuring device
preferably.

could be that everything is running just fine with either a homemade airbox
or K&N pod filters stucked on, anyway, Brad Black's bikeboy homepage
gives some good information how the single ducati engines respond to
open airboxes etc.

:)





*there is an airpressure sensor installed within the ECU also, i just took
a quick look into the mh900e owners manual.
 

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Excel Addict
2001 900SSie
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5,345 Posts
Airbox, Tuneboy etc.

Muschi is spot on with his comments.

In my 900SSie 2001 I run an open airbox - stock cut out with a jigsaw - plus K&N filter. Our efi bikes tend to be quite rich, except around 3000 rpm for emission and noise tests, so opening the airbox should not be a problem. I have an O2 sensor and tested AFR with and without the K&N - no difference, so the K&N works very well as a high flow air filter.

Tuning - I run Tuneboy in mine and thoroughly recommend it on ease of use and price. It costs about AUD380 plus delivery. You get software and a cable to connect from USB to the diag port under the seat. You can get an initial map from TB or start with the existing one. Either way, it is just a file on your computer, where you do good management and keep the original and name modified files so you can revert to one that works if you make a mistake.

O2 sensor - great if you are going to keep modding the engine and trust your butt dyno and ability to monitor AFR on the fly, but a few dyno runs logging power and AFR vs RPM starting from various throttle positions will probably give you enough to be able to mod the map, which is pretty simple with TB.
 

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Excel Addict
2001 900SSie
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5,345 Posts
ECU inputs

The Marelli 15M monitors the following to control the EFI.

RPM and throttle position - determines where you are in the map for injector duration and spark advance.

Air temperature - higher temps means less dense, so less oxygen, so less fuel. Opposite for cooler.

Air pressure sensor - inside the ECU. Higher pressure means more dense air, so more oxygen, so more fuel. Opposite for lower pressure.

Oil temperature - monitors how warmed up the engine is - guess it controls fuel and spark.

During cranking, the ECU adds extra fuel to make the mixture rich (just like using a choke on carbs) After it starts the air fuel ratio goes from rich to "normal" over about 20 seconds, then the inputs above take over normal control over the EFI.

Richard
 

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Muschi is spot on with his comments.
thank you, that tuneboy you explained in the other topic sounds
pretty brilliant, i was always wondering what the dead-end connection
in the rear part of the wiring loom was for.

:think:

still dreaming of FCRs for the custom bike though, the SS1000DS is almost
sold, after i had dropped it on some green field at stand still, anyway,
i am about to get baby* back together for the 3rd or 4th time, can't
remember.

:think:

i always thought the Marelli 1.5 CPU could not calculate with engine
temperature, and that it would enrich the mixture at start no matter
if the engine would be cold and needed that or not.

where is the difference then between monitoring the oil temp with the
1.5 CPU or the engine temperature with the later CPUs ?

:think:






* i do need a true motorcycle, my friend and neighbor has bought himself
a moto guzzi 750 S3 the very same i aquired the grey SS 1000 DS, that
looks like a teflon pan compared to the other bike to be honest.

i won't return to moto guzzi, as i had the Le Mans II before getting into the
supersport world, but i need something classic with finned cylinders and
no fairing so i can stare at the engine.

prettty nice pic from last weekends blast, sorry for thread high-jack,
i just love that bike.

:think:






:think: ;)
 

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Excel Addict
2001 900SSie
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5,345 Posts
Oil temp sensors

Muschi,

My 2001 900SSie has two oil temp sensors.

One goes to the temperature gauge only.

The other sensor, mounted on the horizontal cylinder, goes to the 15M ECU for EFI control.

For more about the Tuneboy/15M, go to the Guzzi section on the tuneboy web site.

Not sure about later ECUS.

Richard
 

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Discussion Starter #7
(Very nice Guzzi :) )

Thank you Richard and Muschi,
for very usefull information, I start to be involved in injection world.
I wish to complete the electrical system in close time
and run the engine with original air box and filter to ensure that it's uin good condition at all.

How I understood 800 SS (2005) has no O2 sensor,
only sensors in airbox and engine itself.

Do you have any technical articles about how it work ?
Wiring diagrams ? engineering schems ?

Thank you,
Igor.
 

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3,890 Posts
The 800 SS has the 5.9M ecu, which is different than the earlier supersports. I also believe it has an oxygen sensor, and needs it to function properly.
 
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