[wobblyas]

The Ignitech units appear to be sensitive to what coils you are using particularly from idle to about 3000 rpm. My previous single out put Dynatech coils appeared to work better with the Ignitech unit with a longer dwell time. I suspect this could also be true of the standard coils partnered with the Ignitech as well.

My problems with low rpm stutter and misfiring weref urther exacerbated when I converted my bike to twin spark heads using twin output coils which are harder to drive than standard coils. They needed an even longer dwell than my previous single out put coils to get them working best at low revs.

My findings are a bit strange because the Ignitech should be able to drive the primary windings of coils harder than the Kukasans....but try my recommendations below and see how it works for you.

BTW the 3 ohm Dynatech mini coils turned up side down will bolt directly onto the standard coil mounting posts of the 91-98 SuperSports. Don't worry about them being only 3 ohms. Their inductive reactance seems to be high enough to not cause any problems with the Kukasans or the Ignitech unit.

Try these changes in the miscellaneous tabs page.

Set "dwell dynamic addition" to 30
Set "maximum dwell time" to 20,000 us (yes I know it seems over the top but you can cut back this figure later).
set "max rpm for dwell by lobe" to 800 (if you don't do this the change in the line above won't have any affect at revs below what ever value you have in this field).

If this works for you and gives you crisp low rev running, then incrementally reduce the "max dwell time" untill low rpm running begins to suffer.

Also worth doing before you do the above is measure the voltage between the positive wire on your coils and the earth terminal on your battery while your bike is running. This should be between 13.8 volts and 14.4 volts (the same as measured directly across the battery terminals).

If it's not (and it won't be - typically only 11.5 volts) then install a relay to provide power to the positive terminal of your coils directly from the battery. Actually this usually gives worthwhile gains even with the Kukasans and standard coils. This trick understandably works particularly well on engines fitted with high compression pistons due to it being harder to strike a spark in a higher compression environment. I learned this trick from a customer's who discovered it. Thanks Will!)

Also try setting base advance to match your fly wheel pick up point. You can measure this by putting the Kukasans back in and checking base timing with your timing light.

Note the 32 degrees max advance written in the Ducati manuals is wrong for the 900cc engines. Maximum standard advance with the Kukasans is actually 36 degrees.

Oh and two last things the Ignitech units are susceptible to confusion and permanent failure from EMI. Due to installers not doing both of the following to negate this issue these units have a worse reliability reputation than they deserve.

ALWAYS use resistive plugs or caps or leads with the Ignitech unit
ALWYS place the Ignitech Unit away from you coils and spark plug leads

Once you get your head around the Ignitech units I think you will be extremely impressed. It would really help if they got someone to rewrite their instruction guide for them and add a bit more detail and a clear explanation of things like the dwell options.

Happy to try and answer any further questions but still experimenting and learning like everybody else.

 

[mtmansl]

Thank you for the tips! I haven't played with mine but have noticed the stutter up past 4,000 rpm.

 

[470four]

The Ignitech units appear to be sensitive to what coils you are using particularly from idle to about 3000 rpm. My previous single out put Dynatech coils appeared to work better with the Ignitech unit with a longer dwell time. I suspect this could also be true of the standard coils partnered with the Ignitech as well.

My problems with low rpm stutter and misfiring weref urther exacerbated when I converted my bike to twin spark heads using twin output coils which are harder to drive than standard coils. They needed an even longer dwell than my previous single out put coils to get them working best at low revs.

My findings are a bit strange because the Ignitech should be able to drive the primary windings of coils harder than the Kukasans....but try my recommendations below and see how it works for you.

BTW the 3 ohm Dynatech mini coils turned up side down will bolt directly onto the standard coil mounting posts of the 91-98 SuperSports. Don't worry about them being only 3 ohms. Their inductive reactance seems to be high enough to not cause any problems with the Kukasans or the Ignitech unit.

Try these changes in the miscellaneous tabs page.

Set "dwell dynamic addition" to 30
Set "maximum dwell time" to 20,000 us (yes I know it seems over the top but you can cut back this figure later).
set "max rpm for dwell by lobe" to 800 (if you don't do this the change in the line above won't have any affect at revs below what ever value you have in this field).

If this works for you and gives you crisp low rev running, then incrementally reduce the "max dwell time" untill low rpm running begins to suffer.

Also worth doing before you do the above is measure the voltage between the positive wire on your coils and the earth terminal on your battery while your bike is running. This should be between 13.8 volts and 14.4 volts (the same as measured directly across the battery terminals).

If it's not (and it won't be - typically only 11.5 volts) then install a relay to provide power to the positive terminal of your coils directly from the battery. Actually this usually gives worthwhile gains even with the Kukasans and standard coils. This trick understandably works particularly well on engines fitted with high compression pistons due to it being harder to strike a spark in a higher compression environment. I learned this trick from a customer's who discovered it. Thanks Will!)

Also try setting base advance to match your fly wheel pick up point. You can measure this by putting the Kukasans back in and checking base timing with your timing light.

Note the 32 degrees max advance written in the Ducati manuals is wrong for the 900cc engines. Maximum standard advance with the Kukasans is actually 36 degrees.

Oh and two last things the Ignitech units are susceptible to confusion and permanent failure from EMI. Due to installers not doing both of the following to negate this issue these units have a worse reliability reputation than they deserve.

ALWAYS use resistive plugs or caps or leads with the Ignitech unit
ALWYS place the Ignitech Unit away from you coils and spark plug leads

Once you get your head around the Ignitech units I think you will be extremely impressed. It would really help if they got someone to rewrite their instruction guide for them and add a bit more detail and a clear explanation of things like the dwell options.

Happy to try and answer any further questions but still experimenting and learning like everybody else.

I read this and my brain started to melt and dribble out of my ear.

Will have to get somebody to help me set up an ignitech if I ever get one...

The 32deg advance would apply to the 600 Ducati's, their flywheels have 32deg advance - I am running one in my 900 so my motor runs cooler with hi-comps.

 

[bradblack]

i hadn't looked at the v80 software yet as i haven't had any of them.

i did have one std 900ss that was a bit funny around 3,000 rpm with the advance pulled back from the std (unit fitted due to dead kokusan). i just bumped it up about the same as original and it fixed it. maybe there was more to it, but it was a v75 i think so this stuff is not available in the software.

interesting stuff. i like the "max rpm for dwell by lobe" feature. that has always shitted me in that you have to have the base advance as the first two settings pretty much.

 

[wobblyas]

interesting stuff. i like the "max rpm for dwell by lobe" feature. that has always shitted me in that you have to have the base advance as the first two settings pretty much.

Brad I don't believe this feature has any determination on advance. It is only used for setting the maximum revs the pre-defined idle dwell is used up to. If you select 'Special Settings' under bike instead of selecting a predefined bike, you have a lot more options to change individual parameters - some of which appear to allow you to do some clever stuff with the base advance but I am not going to attempt to cover them here yet.

Brad I know that you will be well across most of the following but I have written the long explanation for others who are not so conversant with this stuff.

Most customers will not need to know the following, unless they have installed different coils into their bike that have very different parameters to those which Ignitech has predefined for the bike manufacturers original coils.

In an ideal world you want the best possible spark when you are trying to start you bike. To get the best possible spark you want the longest coil excitation time (dwell) possible that won't damage your coils for the Ignitech unit...and Ignitech have very cleverly built just this capability into their unit!

The dwell time used to start your bike can be longer than your idle and running dwell times because it will only be used for a very short period while you are trying to start it. In addition while starting your bike the power drawn by the starter motor probably means that the voltage available to drive the coils is less.

When you install the Ignitech, you select the type of bike you are installing it in under the 'bike' Tab. Typically for our SuperSports we select 'classic (1 lobe, 1 or 2 pick up)' When you make this selection several parameters including Ignitech's predefined 'special starting dwell time' for your bike is also determined. This means that installers do not need to enter a 'special dwell for starting' dwell time for their coils- they can just use Ignitech's the standard predetermined configuration for bike type 'classic (1 lobe, 1 or 2 pick up).

This predetermined configuration will work very well for most customers, except those customers who are not using the factory coils. Many of us have 'upgraded' to different coils that may require longer dwell times than standard. Setting dwell times too long could result in damaged coils or damaging the drive circuit in the Ignitech. Setting the dwell times to low will mean that you don't get as powerful spark as could be achieved.

In my case I am using a twin output Dynatech coils to run my twin spark heads. These coils need a longer dwell time. Users can modify the dwell above the idle rpm but can not alter the dwell time below the revs set in "max rpm for dwell by lobe" field. It would be clearer if this field was called " rpm for special starting dwell"

If you have a lap top plugged into your Ignitech while your bike is running it will show the actual dwell being used by the Ignitech at any instant of time. In my case I needed a longer dwell at idle. If the revs set in "max rpm for dwell by lobe" are close to your idle speed it curiously seems to affect the dwell time from idle to about 3000rpm. It seems that it might also change the base figures that the 'auto' dwell time feature uses to determine dwell at higher frequencies. I need to do some more experimentation to get a clearer picture of this.

If you have selected a pre-defined bike in the miscellaneous tab such as 'classic (1 lobe, 1 or 2 pick up) it is not possible for a user to define the starting dwell time figure a simple work around is required.

To disable the idle dwell pre-determined by selecting the bike type 'classic (1 lobe, 1 or 2 pick up)' I changed the "max rpm for dwell by lobe" to be significantly less than my idle dwell. I then set the "dynamic dwell addition % to 30 and increased the entry in the "Max dwell time" field to minimum figure that would allow my bike to run cleanly from idle to 3000 rpm.

The Ignitechs appear to be very capable units with far more options than I initially realised. The Ignitech instructions are not as comprehensive or clear to understand as they could be, I am planning to write a companion installation manual for the Ignitech's that I will share with everyone as my knowledge on the units gets better.

 

[Serious Black]

Good info, thanks. I bought coils from Ignitech to go with my unit. The setting appear the same as the original coils. I modified my carbs to take a TPS and enabled the TPS in the ignitech unit. Once I sorted out the base setting to correspond with the actual base setting in the bike (6 degrees on the bike and Ignitech, the Ignitech came set at 10) the bike ran very well around town, almost civilised. Still have an occasional hiccup which seams carb related. Anybody tried a 42.5 idle jet? For info the bike has K&N filter, chopped cover, Ducati performance exhaust, cleaned up ports and manifolds and injection heads. So far I havn't played with the timing.

 

[wobblyas]

Good info, thanks. I bought coils from Ignitech to go with my unit. The setting appear the same as the original coils. I modified my carbs to take a TPS and enabled the TPS in the ignitech unit. Still have an occasional hiccup which seams carb related. Anybody tried a 42.5 idle jet? For info the bike has K&N filter, chopped cover, Ducati performance exhaust, cleaned up ports and manifolds and injection heads. So far I havn't played with the timing.

What revs is you hiccup occurring at?
Does your hiccup occur at steady throttle or on throttle opening or closing?

TPS is the next thing I want to play with. What TPS unit did you use? Did you use the default Ignitech 3D map (albeit with you 6 degree base setting)?

 

[Serious Black]

Now there lies a small problem. With the injection heads I've lost the tacho drive. I'll use the electronic drive from the ignitech once I've got me a suitable tacho. The hiccup is about 2 - 3000revs. It's just off idle. I have the Factorypro nickel plated needle jets and Titanium needles so it isn't that. The bike feels a touch weak on the needle jet and the mixture screw is about 4 turns. 4 turns is getting near the calibration limits for the mixture screw so I think a larger idle jet is the way to go now. It happens at a constant throttle position and is worse when the bike is cold. It improved after a tweek of the mixture screw, 1/4 richer.

Heres a link to my blogg on the whole project: http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/forum/showthread.php?15246-900SS-Ignition-Project

Yes I used the Ignitech map.

 

[bradblack]

well, i didn't understand most of what you said either. that side of ignition i don't.

serious: how did you fit the tps? don't be afraid to go to 5 turns of the mixture screw. there's no noticable "too rich" effect on them, but it will keep richening the idle mixture

 

[wobblyas]

The hiccup is about 2 - 3000revs. It's just off idle.

Well as my aunt says if it ain't a fuelling issue it's a sparking issue.....has to be one or the other....or both?

These engines are just not very good at setting fire to the fuel mixture at lower revs and they need all the help they can get from ideal fueling and a strong spark.

If your fuelling changes don't work try getting a fatter spark by increasing the coil excitation in the ways I have described in the first post in this thread.

Let us know what you find.

 

[barnapkin]

The Ignitech units appear to be sensitive to what coils you are using particularly from idle to about 3000 rpm. My previous single out put Dynatech coils appeared to work better with the Ignitech unit with a longer dwell time. I suspect this could also be true of the standard coils partnered with the Ignitech as well.

Where has this post been for the past year? I have F'd with the the jets on the carbs to the point where I can remove then in less than 20 min blindfolded. MY monster has spit and stumbled from idle to 3000 rpm. Idle improves when warmed up, but light load while going through town in a 30mph zone produces misfires. I always attributed it to lean fuel from the idle/pilot jet because I'm not on the main jet. I also have the Factory Pro jet kit.

The monster (FI convert) has the V75 module, and my track bike (dual pickup) has the V80. Both have the same greenish DynaCoils. The track bike has never had a problem, so I always blamed the Mikunis vs the Kehlins and my lack of carb knowlege.

I agree on the manual. The V80 software allows you to apply an individual cylinder offset to the base timing. I've noticed a base timing difference when looking at the flywheel with a timing light. One cyl leads the mark, the other lags. I probably have a 4 deg difference between cyls.

For those using the module to convert an FI engine : I had better success running the CKP shielded wire straight to the battery vs. through the module. I think a few years ago I showed an edited schematic (could not find it on ducati ms to update) based on what Mushi sent me. I think the low and shielded wires shared the same pin (16?) in that pic. I also ran it to pin 14 with similar results as 16. Run the shield to battery ground.

 

[Serious Black]

Wrap aluminium foil/tape round your pick up wires and earth it. This sheilds the pick ups from radio interference. Also a good idea to route the wires away from the coils/HT leads.

 

[pajazo]

I got my TCIP4 unit today. Decided to write a short review here if someone is interested.

I bought it because I have read from the forums that it's possible to get rid of some of the chain lash or driveline oscillation with it. I didn't expect any performance increases (hp) and didn't find any. I didn't have a need to retard the max advance either. I have stock carbs, no engine mods and didn't use the programming feature of the unit.

I spent some time scratching my head about the wiring as there were no clear instructions with the unit as to which coil and pickup is no. 1 and 2, but I put the black connectors right and white ones left and the engine fired up with the first press of the starter button.

The first thing I noticed was that the choke is no more 3000rpm or stall. It is now easy to adjust the idle rpm by choke.

The bike doesn't develop the nasty surging oscillation cruising below 2600rpm anymore. Now I can easily cruise smoothly at anything over 2000rpm. The take-offs are also a lot more effortless now. Riding slow turns is also easier now. I found myself enjoying cruising slowly along the beach streets in the speed of traffic.

I have yet to find a good location to place the unit in the bike. There was not much space below the tank but I managed to strap the unit to the top of the airbox temporarily.

 

[duc96cr]

470four,I am running stock ignition and coils, with non resistor plug caps. Should I be running resistor caps ? To run the relay from the battery to the ignition, what relay do I use ? Could you or would you draw a wiring diagram of how to do this. Sounds like a worthwhile conversion. Thanks.

 

[470four]

470four,I am running stock ignition and coils, with non resistor plug caps. Should I be running resistor caps ? To run the relay from the battery to the ignition, what relay do I use ? Could you or would you draw a wiring diagram of how to do this. Sounds like a worthwhile conversion. Thanks.

Which upgrade are you referring to? C/cycleworks coils?

 

[wobblyas]

,I am running stock ignition and coils, with non resistor plug caps. Should I be running resistor caps ? To run the relay from the battery to the ignition, what relay do I use ? Could you or would you draw a wiring diagram of how to do this. Sounds like a worthwhile conversion. Thanks.

You need to run one and only ONE of the following

Resistive Spark plugs
Resistive Caps
Resistive leads.

I will do a diagram for you when I get a chance but here is what you need to do. As I described earlier their is a large voltage drop by the time the power gets to the coils after travelling through the thin wiring, fuse, ignition switch, kill switch and back to the coil. this voltage drop means that the coils can not get the full energy they need to develop a great spark.

To overcome this you use a N.O. (Normally Opent) relay to feed battery voltage directly (via the relay) to the coils.You use the +ve feed from the kill switch to turn on the relay.

If you want to see and understand how a relay works take a look here.

Steps:

1. Break the connection of your +ve wire from the kill switch back to the coils. On the early 900SS bikes their is a convenient connector plug on the right hand side of the battery. Simply unplug this connector to to achieve this.
   
2. Run a wire from the kill switch side of this connection to one of the two terminals on actuator side of the relay. (This will be labelled 85 or 86 on the relay).
   
3. Run a wire from the other actuator terminal (This will be labelled 85 or 86) on the relay to a good earth
   
4. Run a wire from the terminal labelled 87 on the output side of the relay to the +ve wire on the coil side of the connector you unplugged.
   
5. Run a wire form the other terminal labelled 30 on the output side of the relay to the positive terminal of your battery via a fuse.

That's it. If you use something like the posi-tap connectors (available from us or elsewhere) this rewiring will only take a few minutes.

 

[pajazo]

I am having problems with the ignitech unit.

Since the last post I have installed mikuni tdmr flatslides. After installing them I started getting misfires. They happen around 3000 rpm cruising and higher when accelerating. I'm getting an occasional backfire and frequent cutting out on acceleration. However, the bike idles just fine.

I also noticed that even with the stock carbs there seemed to be a little hesitation just below 3000 rpm which I thought was because of the stock carb jetting or worn emulsion tubes.

I tried the stock kokusans with the flatslides and they run fine without any misfiring but the chain lash is back (although not so bad as with the stock carbs).

However, I am keeping the flatslides. I don't believe there's much wrong with the jetting of them, because they run really great with the stock kokusans (except the 1600-2600rpm range where it is difficult to keep consistent light throttle because the rapidly increasing advance of the stock curve).

I have tried many different dwell settings including the wobblyas' settings and some found at german forums, but they don't seem to make any difference. Only choosing the short dwell makes the problem much worse.

I even tried running power straight from the battery to the ignitech unit but that didn't have any effect. Checked the ground wires too, one was a bit loose but tightening it didn't make any difference. I have a universal meter but it refuses to measure the resistance of the coils or pickups (maybe it is disturbed by the inductance?). The manual says that the primary resistance should be 0,34 ohms for the stock coils I'm running.

Plugs seem fine and the colour is light brown. They are resistive type.

I have tried different positions of the ignition unit and even shielding it with aluminum foil, didn't make any difference.

When I hook a computer to the ignition unit with the bike running, the software shows around 6ms dwell at idle and 4-5ms at 3000rpm with no load. The number varies a couple of ms even with stable idle. This is with the default settings (auto dwell, 6000 microsecond max dwell, 12% dynamic dwell). I tried setting the pickups to positive polarity (default=auto) with no effect.

I think the other parts of the ignition are likely ok as they work fine with the stock kokusans.

I am going to try programming the stock ignition map to the ignitech unit tomorrow to rule out the possibility that the misfires are due to the altered ignition timing.

Does anyone of you have similar experiences? Any ideas? I'm running out of ideas with this. I think the ignitech might be faulty. I'd like to get it working because the smooth low rpm running it offers when not misfiring.

 

[wobblyas]

I am having problems with the ignitech unit.

Since the last post I have installed mikuni tdmr flatslides. After installing them I started getting misfires. They happen around 3000 rpm cruising and higher when accelerating. I'm getting an occasional backfire and frequent cutting out on acceleration. However, the bike idles just fine.

I also noticed that even with the stock carbs there seemed to be a little hesitation just below 3000 rpm which I thought was because of the stock carb jetting or worn emulsion tubes.

I tried the stock kokusans with the flatslides and they run fine without any misfiring but the chain lash is back (although not so bad as with the stock carbs).

However, I am keeping the flatslides. I don't believe there's much wrong with the jetting of them, because they run really great with the stock kokusans (except the 1600-2600rpm range where it is difficult to keep consistent light throttle because the rapidly increasing advance of the stock curve).

I have tried many different dwell settings including the wobblyas' settings and some found at german forums, but they don't seem to make any difference. Only choosing the short dwell makes the problem much worse.

I even tried running power straight from the battery to the ignitech unit but that didn't have any effect. Checked the ground wires too, one was a bit loose but tightening it didn't make any difference. I have a universal meter but it refuses to measure the resistance of the coils or pickups (maybe it is disturbed by the inductance?). The manual says that the primary resistance should be 0,34 ohms for the stock coils I'm running.

Plugs seem fine and the colour is light brown. They are resistive type.

I have tried different positions of the ignition unit and even shielding it with aluminum foil, didn't make any difference.

When I hook a computer to the ignition unit with the bike running, the software shows around 6ms dwell at idle and 4-5ms at 3000rpm with no load. The number varies a couple of ms even with stable idle. This is with the default settings (auto dwell, 6000 microsecond max dwell, 12% dynamic dwell). I tried setting the pickups to positive polarity (default=auto) with no effect.

I think the other parts of the ignition are likely ok as they work fine with the stock kokusans.

I am going to try programming the stock ignition map to the ignitech unit tomorrow to rule out the possibility that the misfires are due to the altered ignition timing.

Does anyone of you have similar experiences? Any ideas? I'm running out of ideas with this. I think the ignitech might be faulty. I'd like to get it working because the smooth low rpm running it offers when not misfiring.

What base advance are you using?
Have you checked your idle advance with a strobe light?
What max RPM have you set for dwell by lobe?
Are you using standard coils?
Have you done any mods like hi-comp pistons that would require a lower idle advance?
What advance curve are you using on the Ignitech?

 

[pajazo]

What base advance are you using?
Have you checked your idle advance with a strobe light?
What max RPM have you set for dwell by lobe?
Are you using standard coils?
Have you done any mods like hi-comp pistons that would require a lower idle advance?
What advance curve are you using on the Ignitech?

I don't have a strobe light.
Max rpm for dwell by lobe tried 800 and 900.
Standard coils.
No engine mods, no hi-comps.
Ignitech default advance curve. Tried also the same curve with 6deg base advance (default 10)

 

[wobblyas]

I don't have a strobe light.
Max rpm for dwell by lobe tried 800 and 900.
Standard coils.
No engine mods, no hi-comps.
Ignitech default advance curve. Tried also the same curve with 6deg base advance (default 10)

Leave your polarity auto.


Given all your settings sound about right and you have back firing (which I assume is happening at low revs) and you have rough running below 3000 RPM I will take a punt and suggest you are either too far advanced or two lean at low revs.


Try retarding your timing further. Set base to 6 degrees, set curve at 6 degrees at 200rpm above your iselected dle.

When you quickly roll off the throttle from 3000 RPM in neutral do the revs return to idle very quickly or do they hold up a couple of hundred revs above idle? If the revs hold up a little, try turning out the fuel screws on the bottom of your FCRs half a turn at a time until the revs stop holding up.

Hope this helps