[Dana]

So I tried using a set of PP 2CT's and while I was initially happy with them as street/track tire, I've moved to track only for my bike '99 R6.

I do not use tire warmers or have the urge to get them, but is there a tire I can gradually heat up on the track over a few laps?

It's a very short track, 1km, but it's all turns with the execption of a 100m straight. No coasting here. It's either hard on the gas or harder on the brakes.

I'm not brand restricted, although I'd like to stay with a major brand name. I would rate myself as an "intermediate" track day rider.

Greatest apologies if this is in the wrong section.

Thanks ya'll!

Dana

 

[vonotto]

I've been using the Michelin Power ones, I like them alot.

 

[amullo]

Should be ok.. It´s a silica tire, so operating temps are optimal at around 50 degress celcius compared to slick compound tires like the Pirelli Supercorsa PRO SC or Bridgestone BT-003 Pro´s.

I´d look real hard at Pirelli´s Supercorsa Pro that comes standard on the 1098. Not the SC, but the DOT approved tire.

Michelin Powers have a good rep.

Bridgestone BT-002´s also have a great rep.

//amullo

 

[oneducs]

This is like the best oil thread. Michelin Power ones.

 

[Chuckracer]

No, not really The specific question is different in that he's not looking for "Favorite Tire" responses, rather the tire that would work best on the track without tire warmers, which would rule out most "Pro" level race tires.

Amullo gave the best response as to what specs to look for.

 

[whippersnapper]

I would have thought Pilot Power 2CTs would be plenty for an intermediate rider.

 

[mad]

I'd go with just about any "DOT" race tire. Warmers are not required, they heat up in a lap or less. The only downside is something I can not substantiate and that is that by using warmers, you increase the tire's life by reducing heat cycles. Then again, tires don't last that long on the track anyway. I ran the supercorsas mentioned above and loved them. My 999 would just eat up a "standard" sport tire such as pilot power, diablo, etc. and get greasy pretty quickly.

 

[mad]

I would have thought Pilot Power 2CTs would be plenty for an intermediate rider.

Yep, bottom line...it all depends on the rider's preference and own observations...

 

[amullo]

The only downside is something I can not substantiate and that is that by using warmers, you increase the tire's life by reducing heat cycles.

This is VERY true.
There are 2 big reasons why i use tirewarmers on trackdays.
1. Reduces number of heatcycles, the tire lasts longer. Also eliminates cold tearing (when the surface is hot, but carcass is cold)

2. Amount of riding time.. I don´t have to take it slowly the first 1-2 maybe 3 laps before pouring it on. Most trackdays in Sweden have 15-20 minute sessions. Why spend 4-5 minutes warming the tire up every session? Thats 1/3 of my total riding time gone because i was heating my tires.

That said..
The Slick compound tires are HORRIBLE when cold. tirewarmers are absolutly essential unless the ambient temps are high AND you leave the bike in the sun. A slick compound tire works best at a temp of roughly 80-90 degrees celcius/175-195 degrees fahrenheit. Those temps are close to impossible to acheive without tirewarmers. Using slick compound tires on the street is entirly possible (i do it), but your not pushing the envelope when riding to work on a sunny morning. But it´s only after the slick passes the roadtire in temp that it will give more grip.

Silica or "road" compound tires have amazing grip and are actually better for most intermidiate riders. The reason for this is simple, the tire works best at around 50 degrees celcius/125 degress Fahrenheit but retains good grip at lower temps aswell. The tire works well in damp and even wet conditions (Well.. not like a WET tire, but good enough). Even at 8-10 degrees (~45 degress F) and wet roads, it´ll work OK. A slick would be bloddy awful at that temp..

My BEST recommendation would be to talk to a GOOD local tire guy about what riding you do and let him recommend a good tire.. OR buy the BEST or top of the line ROAD sports tire from whatever manufacturer you like. I´m partial to Pirelli, but Michelin would be my personal second choice.

Point is that.. If you feel like you need the extra level of grip that having the absolute best road sports tire on the bike is needed and that your on the level that it takes the absolute best one to keep you on the track, you might aswell make the switch to a slick compound tire and get some tirewarmers.. Just don´t ride it to work on a cold november morning with the rain coming down..

2c

//amullo

 

[Herbivator]

If the track is that short and the track temps don't get too insane, why not stick with the 2CTs, at least until you reach a pace where they begin to slide or feel too unstable under braking.

 

[Badger_WI]

I agree with the people recommending the PP 2CTs. I've run this exact tire in your exact bike ('02 R6) for a number of years doing nothing but track riding in intermediate and advanced levels. It's a great tire, and it's especially good as amullo pointed out if you get a day that is cooler and/or damp. I just switched to Pilot Race tires this year (running tire warmers btw), and they are terrible on mornings that are cool, say in the low 60's F. Slid around like crazy. The PP 2CTs would have been WAY better in those conditions. That said, I really like the Pilot Race / Power One tires when it gets warm out, but I'm running solidly with the advanced guys & racers now.

Bottom line, don't sell the PP 2CTs short. They are an amazing tire for a "street" tire.

 

[froggert]

i would go with the regular pilot power rear over the 2ct for track use. seems like the edges on the 2ct wear really fast.

 

[Bong]

I just did 2 days at Sears Pt (Infineon) in Sonoma last week in 100* temps with my StreetFigheter --> the oem Pirelli Diablo Corsa III dual compound tires handled really well with no tire warmer use. Very predictable and stable throughout the day.

Good luck with your choice...

 

[Dana]

Thanks for the replies all!

We run 30 minute sessions opposite to cars running the track. Kinda like 30 minutes on, 45 minutes off.

On my 2nd track day and 6th session on the tires (over two days), they were starting to feel real greasy. Is it possible to have too many heat cycles on a tire, or overheat them and get that greasy feeling the next time out? Don't get me wrong, they were prefect my first 4-5 sessions, but it feels like I'm skating around on them.

We also have some endurance races (albeit on 250cc sportbikes) and we're not allowed to use tire warmers, so I was hoping to get used to a tire that we would use in the race (street legal tire).

Dana

 

[Badger_WI]

So your PP2CTs were new, you ran two days on them and the last session of the second day they felt greasy? That surprises me a lot. I would get an entire season out of my PP 2CTs, which amounted to 6-7 full track days of 7 20-minute sessions per day. They felt as good the last session of the last day as they did when brand new. I probably could have gotten more life out of them, but liked getting fresh rubber at the start of each season.

Hmmm... Not sure what to tell you. Tires will get greasy after too many heat cycles, but if your tires were new, two days would not do that. Could they have been old tires? Is it possible that the interaction between the car rubber and motorcycle rubber on the track was causing an incompatibility? You hear the car racers talking about that, that the track is slippery if another series was running before them, and it stays slippery until the tires they are running "rubber in" the track.

 

[xseal]

Any top of the line street tire will do (Dunlop Qualifiers, Michelin Pilot Power, Pirelli Diablo, etc).

No DOT race tires.

The racing schools all use good street tires (Schwantz, Spencer did, CSS, etc), and they work fine up to close to race speeds. If you're slow, they won't move. If you're fast, they'll move a little.

 

[arai_speed]

Regular PP or PP 2Cts would do the trick in my opinion. Those things warm up in a lap or less.

 

[brianmdavis]

I ran the Bridgestone 002's and love them. $250/set to my door. Way better buy for the track...
I ran in the A group and did well with these tires.