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Discussion Starter #1
As we all know, both BMW and Aprilia are competing in WSBK. Thats fantastic. BMW just offered up their street superbike with an MSRP that is quite reasonable, $13.8 without ABS and some version of TC I think. I suppose if you go for those two options the bike will be hovering in the $16.5+ range, still not bad, even with funny eyes for headlites.

A buddy of mine emailed me yesterday to tell me he is really liking the new Aprilia RSV4. I've been monitoring it's progress as well and I like everything about the bike save the blunderbust exhaust. I would consider leaving Ducati by selling off one or both my bikes to buy the RSV4 base model. It will be anywhere in the neighborhood of $25K to $30K. What holds me back is the fact I finally have a good fitting combination between the sportbike needs and the sport touring needs. Likely won't happen unless a year or two after the release some used models become available, as they always do. I've seen used 1098Rs going for $25K and $27K. The 1098 body style has never done it for me and the R model looks too much like the base 1098. Power between the RSV4 and the 1098R are about the same, brakes the same, suspension the same. Not the same, can you say V4? Ducati won't go there with their street superbikes, remaining steadfast (stubborn) with the V twin. Had no choice but the V4 in Motogp. The RSV4 Max is riding in WSBK is steadily improving, the bike has the power and I think its just a matter of time before Max will be taking the Aprilia pass the all powerful Yamaha. You can clearly see the Aprilia is getting faster. There is no way Haga nor Frabrizio can hang in against the Aprilia or Yamaha unless the FIM allows Ducati to open the air restrictors some more. I think the changing landscape in WSBK is sending a signal the V twin is going to be dead within two years. You simply just can't build bigger displacement motors in order to stay competitive. I don't know, its way over my head, but I think Ducati will first have to lobby for mechanical enhancements and eventually the 1198 will be in the same state the 999 was two years ago. I would say the Japanese may have an arguement to go slightly larger in displacement using the same high state of tune reliability angle Ducati successfully deployed. I don't know if the I/4 or V4 are anywhere near that point, maybe they will petition for an extra 50cc? (just a little,lol). They must be considering all the roads, I wonder where its all going. In the V twin case, its got to have diminishing returns if the base strategy is larger displacement, weight being one problem. I predict Ducati will be forced to concede and will go with a V4 powerplant in WSBK. No way will they tolerate a slide on the grid, that is a big reason why I like Ducati, they have a racing mentality, its in their blood. If they go with a V4 street superbike, I hope its not one with desmo components and therefore every 7.5K miles you have to check clearances on a buzillion rockers?

Sorry for the tangent, but does anyone else have the discerning eye on the new Aprilia?
 

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If I were buying another bike in the next few months I'd be choosing between the Yamaha and the Aprilia. The Yamaha is just good, cheap speed.

The Aprilia will be a little more exotic, about the same performance and, just a guess, a lot cheaper to maintain than a Ducati (though I'm sure more than the Yamaha).

BMW... I'm just holding back a few years to be sure their heart is really in being on top of Superbike. I guess you could say I don't believe in them yet.

I ride almost exclusively on the track. So I'm not concerned with how it does on the street.

-Bill
 

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I would be a little reluctant to spend a big pile of cash on a totally new engine design (the RSV4). I'd let them get a few out in the market for a while and let them work some of the "bugs" out first. Just my conservative nature.......
 

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One thing to remember when considering purchasing any Aprilia is their recent history of customer and dealer support and parts network. Can't say Ducati is a posterchild when it comes to parts, but they embarrass Aprilia. I know a few Aprilia dealers and have heard a number of their stories about parts availability and getting screwed over warranty work. Just my $.02 but something else to think about.
 

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just sat on and listened to the new bmw in black.if i wanted someting faster than my duc it would get the nod.aprilla needs a better dealer network imo to get my money.
 

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John, you have a 999R. Is there no satisfying you?

Don't get me wrong, I find the idea of owning a high-performance V4 to be very seductive, as well. But, as content as I am with a base 999, I'm fairly confident a 999R would squash most of those V4 cravings!
 

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I also savor the RSV4 and new S1000RR. ;)
 

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One thing to remember when considering purchasing any Aprilia is their recent history of customer and dealer support and parts network. Can't say Ducati is a posterchild when it comes to parts, but they embarrass Aprilia. I know a few Aprilia dealers and have heard a number of their stories about parts availability and getting screwed over warranty work. Just my $.02 but something else to think about.
Eviltwin -
You're absolutely right about issues with parts availability and dealers getting reimbursed for warranty work. There have been problems because of Aprilia's near collapse earlier this decade and it seems like they are still sorting out the bugs in dealer support with Piaggio ownership. That being said, I have owned my '03 Aprilia Tuono since June, 2003 having purchased it new and I have never had an issue with getting parts. Part of the reason is because of a terrific dealership called AF1 Racing located in Texas and part of the reason is because in 6+ years and 19,000 miles of ownership, I just haven't had the need to wrench on it other than for regularly scheduled maintenance and adding on some bolt on goodies. I have owned my '06 749s for almost a year now and I have done more work to it than I ever imagined I would.

John -
FYI - The base model RSV4 is going to be less money than a standard 1198 and the RSV4 factory (with the Ohlins suspension and lightweight wheels) is supposed to be priced around the same as the 1198s. I really like the RSV4 factory and it may just be something that I have to have in the near future.
 

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There's always going to be something exciting coming along to tempt you to sell everything you have now and get the Latest And Greatest...even if the performance capabilities are waaaay beyond what only a small handful of people can actually use.

I love the new 'Priller too! :D I think it's dead sexy...and if I could somehow justify it, I'd have one!
 

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I spoke to the Aprilia guys at MMP. They said that there will be 3 trim levels, the base, the factory and an R type model. They said pricing wasn't final but said that the base was $16K, the Factory $24K and the R would be around $30K. BTW, this bike is tiny!
 

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I would imagine that Ducati in the future have a V-4 street version....w/ all the remarkable advances in metalurgy and CAD a bigger or more powerful twin will also be a part of Ducati Corse.
I have a base 999 too, albeit loaded w/ alot of neat stuff. I feel no need for a R model...I have magnesium valve covers, headlight and clutch parts. An R wouldhave been a great bike to own 3 years ago but not now! I want to get out of $800 maintenance nonsense, 2 weeks to do the simplest repair, out rageous part pricing...not to mention waiting 3 weeks to months for any Ducati part. Not again, not after riding a Honda CBR 1000, ZX 1400 or a GSXR 1000. A CBR 1000 w/ a Akrapovic exhaust, undertail and cowl kit would be fine by me. Plus my the dealer always had the parts I needed or got em' in a few days, serviced my jap bike within a day of bringing it in, etc. I'll probably never sell my 999, but I'll buy a Honda or Kawasaki next. I want to own a Ducati and enjoy it.....getting fleeced every time it needs something is getting a bit old.
 

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... If they go with a V4 street superbike, I hope its not one with desmo components and therefore every 7.5K miles you have to check clearances on a buzillion rockers?...

I completely disagree on this point.. I would love to see a production ducati v4 (maybe just pull the motoGP motor and put it in the 848)
but I would not like to see them abandon the desmo tech,, that is my favorite part about ducati's ... no springs. in fact a v4 gear driven desmo bike with the S specs would be a bike that would piss my wife off. :)
I do understand the maintenance thing,, but really it isn't such a big deal in my mind, I think because I enjoy working on my bikes.
 

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Ya know, I made this arguement last year. I think ducati is way behind the times. Instead of sticking with the rules they went with larger displacement and it's put them in a hard place. They don't have the tuning alliances and of course, they are going to fall behind much quicker then everyone else. With that being said, watching fabrizio this season has been amazing. Biaggi is a pretty good racer and for him to have won a single race due to both spies and fabrizio being out, ehh I don't see that as happening again this season. The aprilia is a nice race bike but I don't think the ducati is that far behind.

Ducati has been developing a V4 for production but they obviously don't feel it's ready or perhaps they feel it's too expensive? Knowing the Italians it will take them a year of wsbk failure before they get the hint. Haga is leading the championship and fabrizio is 3rd, umm I don't think they have a problem. When 2007 happens again, then they'll make changes.

Giving up on ducati because you think the aprilia bike for the street would be better then a ducati is kind of a second hand remark. As I always say, ride what makes you happy. If you love your duc, why change it? Now, the BMW would be a great bike because it's dirt cheap and would a great race machine. But I personally wouldn't get rid of my ducatis over somehing I didn't know but I sure buy one as an addition to my garage! :d



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I'd like to have a Hypermotard. I'd also like to have an Aprillia RS250. I'd also like to have an 83 Yamaha RZ350 Kenny Roberts replica. PLUS I'd like to have a VFR800 Interceptor. ANNNDDD I'd like to have an FZR600 like I used to have. I would KILL to have a 500 Gamma. And last but not least, I'd like to have a Suzuki TM400 like Roger Decoster used to race.

Get what Ya want John, It'll make ya smile.:)
 

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I think you guys are missing the big picture here. Ducati is not about to offer up a street V4 other than the Sedeci and why would they, already owning the "performance twins" niche? That's why Aprilia went the V4 route, so they could "own" an engine configuration after unsuccessfully copying Ducati's V-twins.

Also, there is no shame that the twins need to run another 200cc to be competitive with the 4-cylinders. Its simply a matter of valve area and RPMs. If you want more HP out of an IC engine you just add valve area and ramp up the RPMs if you can, but max piston speed stops the twins from matching the fours in this quest. Nothing new here - that's why Honda went with a V5 when the MotoGP rules were based on 990cc engines - more cylinders = more HP.

Oh, and I like the Aprilia RSV-4 too, but not so much I'd ditch Ducati, not yet anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I spoke to the Aprilia guys at MMP. They said that there will be 3 trim levels, the base, the factory and an R type model. They said pricing wasn't final but said that the base was $16K, the Factory $24K and the R would be around $30K. BTW, this bike is tiny!
It looks very Motogp due to the rear end being limited in size. There was a comment that Aprilia wanted to make the tail even smaller, I don't think that would have gone over very well. That is why the bike looks smaller.

I wonder what kind of powerplant and suspension the base model will have? Thats a pretty big spread ($8K) between the base and Factory.
 
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