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Discussion Starter #21
molasses said:
Do you know what I think?

I think you must have an awful lot of spare time on your hands, spalding12, judging from the number of posts you've written lately :eek: :D
nope
just passionate about life and this bike
and ducati in general

i'm at work
seeing patients
i'm a pediatrician

i love what i do
i love my family
and i love my bikes

nothing more... nothing less
no offense intended
 

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spalding12 said:
...how on earth will ducati make that bike worth 12.5K MORE than the 1098S and still not piss off the desmosedici owners who'll be spending 65K for THEIR bikes
Simple. Make it a true collectible and stop production on them after this year. The 1188R will be 500 per year for how many years 3, 4, 5? Keep Desmocedici truly limited, add in 3 years maintence (thats worth 10K alone) owners will be happy.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
beestiboy said:
Simple. Make it a true collectible and stop production on them after this year. The 1188R will be 500 per year for how many years 3, 4, 5? Keep Desmocedici truly limited, add in 3 years maintence (thats worth 10K alone) owners will be happy.
sounds like a roadmap to success for ducati to me
 

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spalding12 said:
when the 1188 "R" comes out next year
at 32.5K (approx)
how on earth will ducati make that bike worth 12.5K MORE than the 1098S and still not piss off the desmosedici owners who'll be spending 65K for THEIR bikes
They just need to follow MV Agusta's example of adding tasty bits to the $22,000 F4-1000 and calling it a $43,500 Tamburini, or better yet throwing in a $19,000 wristwatch and calling it a $100,000 F4-1000CC. Seriously, I can't imagine a Tamburini owner complaining about the exclusivity.
 

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Discussion Starter #28
M1000S said:
They just need to follow MV Agusta's example of adding tasty bits to the $22,000 F4-1000 and calling it a $43,500 Tamburini, or better yet throwing in a $19,000 wristwatch and calling it a $100,000 F4-1000CC. Seriously, I can't imagine a Tamburini owner complaining about the exclusivity.
well put
 

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The Tamburini is also a MONSTER as far as the numbers go, too.

like 174 BHP measured outside of the factory, that's serious.

As for the difference between the D16 and coming 1188...
a lot of people have said a lot of things, basically...
there isn't even a comparison!!
One is a super hopped up street bike, a modern day version of our beloved 916, with competitive HP numbers, and more importantly, competitive pricing...
The other? Is the prototype MotoGP bike that Ruben Xaus said made him more nervous to ride than his "first time with a chick"... with headlights added.
 

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I don't know about that...

I don't know what your version of 'much less than msrp' is but when I bought my 2004 ZX-10R I got a GREAT deal, imo, for $500 less than msrp. No freight, no prep. I just bought my 2007 Ducati 1098 and I paid msrp - no freight, no prep. I do think you can get a better, lesser, price than msrp but it has alot to do with the 'hotness' of the bike - and I don't mean stolen. If a bike is new and everyone wants it, naturally, the price goes up. It's when a bike has been sitting in the showroom for several months and everyone and their brother have sat on it but no one has quite committed to it that the price drops. Sometimes significantly. But I seriously doubt you will EVER find a brand new bike in a new model year that has been redesigned or is entirely new that has also been well received by the public for 'much' less than msrp. If you do, I'll take two.

Boosted521 said:
but there is a difference there. even though msrp on an r1 may be 11.5k, no one in their right mind would actually pay that. honda's, kawisaki's, yamaha's, and suzuki's can all be had for much less than msrp. not so with ducati.

still worth the extra few thousand though :D
 

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Boosted521 said:
honda's, kawisaki's, yamaha's, and suzuki's can all be had for much less than msrp. not so with ducati.
That's strange, because all my new Ducati motorcycles were ALL under retail...

1) 1998 ST2 - Saved $3000 OTD from retail
2) 1999 SS750 - Saved $1200 OTD from retail
3) 2002 748 - Saved $1400 OTD from retail

Typically, even with a new release from any of the Jap-Four, there probably will not be any discounts for the first couple of months as all the hype wears off....

When Kawasaki first introduced the ZX-10R, how many dealers gave discounts the first two months that they were available?....None. ;)


Edit - Maybe I should have read all the posts in this thread before writing mine. I could have easily just quoted the post by "ducatiracerx" and just put a big "+1" under it. :D
 

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Boosted521 said:
but there is a difference there. even though msrp on an r1 may be 11.5k, no one in their right mind would actually pay that. honda's, kawisaki's, yamaha's, and suzuki's can all be had for much less than msrp. not so with ducati.
A month or so ago Ducati dropped the price on all their old Superbikes. This meant I could go into a dealer and get a new 999R for $23K. That's $7K less than MSRP. Or I could get a 999 for like $15K. $3K less than MSRP. Same goes for the rest of the Superbikes.

In addition all bikes can be had for cheaper prices in the winter, even Ducatis, as well. I see it every year at the Ducati dealers as they try to move old inventory.
 

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Crazy, crazy.........It all so crazy, we never get enough!!! the desmo RR isn`t even out yet... paint is still drying on the 1098`s and we are talking about 1188R `s............were does it stop? and when can I get My 1188R.....
 

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RichD said:
I think 32k-ish would be fair for the 1188 if it comes equipped similar to the 999R with 1098 features. (Ti rods, hand built engine, a little lighter, etc.)

For the money, (65K!) the Desmosedici had better come with carbon everything, Magnesium engine everything, Ti exhaust, a lime green Jello hottub with three Hooters chicks in it, a beer tap, fully adjustable rake/trail/swingarm, rearsets, downloadable/programable fuelmap/ignition, diagnostics/data aquisition, traction control, easily removeable lighting/blankoffs for the track, a REAL "tool kit", and a coupon redemable for one free repair after your first highside... :D
LOL...I was thinking of a coupon for something free alright. But, not for a free repair. Free 'servicing' maybe...but the repair could be optional. :p

$65,000 for a Desmosedici vs. $32,000 for a 1188...hmmmmm! Considering that only 400 examples of the Desmosedici RR were made worldwide during the first production run (was that the only run? even if it isn't I can't see the Desmosedici ever being produced in huge numbers) and depending on the production numbers of the new 'R' version of the 1098 (1158, 1188...?), I think that $33,000 is a fair price gap.
 

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As been said before, there are several main differences...

1)The Desmosedici RR has actually been officially announced, you can order it, it is currently being manufactured and it will ship imminently.
1) The 1188 has not been officially (to my knowledge) been announced as an actual product, you cannot order it, it is not being currently manufactured and nobody has a clue as to when it will ship.

2) The Desmosedici RR is a L4 liter street derivative of a bike that races under past and current GP rules and does quite well
2) The 1188 will be an L twin that does can not race under current rules and nobody knows how well it will perform in competition under future rules. It is intended to race under future Superbike rules.

3) The Desmosedici RR will produce an unknown horsepower, but it is stated above 200hp. The target HP for the GP series bike was 230hp. Currently the GP7 which is 800cc produces 225hp, so their current GP liter bikes are probably producing more. The nebulous number is probably because they are seeing they can squeeze out of the bike while meeting all environmental standards and road regulations. What do you think the odds are there will be an optional race kit that will "unlock" a lot of performance.
3) Nobody knows what the 1188 will produce in terms of horsepower. It could be (unlikely) 160hp, it could be well over 200hp. With the amount of information available and the fact that engine, let alone any potential bike, is not currently based upon anything with known numbers makes forecasting this futile. I would note is that they pushed for 1188cc, not because they couldn't make the 999 competitive (with the R street version putting out 150hp), but that they couldn't make it competitive at a reasonable level of expenditure. If they suddenly start busting out 200+ hp on their 1188 street legal version (Base trim, S trim, R trim... we don't even know that), Superbike regulators probably won't be very happy with the 1198RS version facing down 4 banger liter bikes.
 

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848 and 848R price/performance?

spalding12 said:
let's talk for a minute
when the 1188 "R" comes out next year
at 32.5K (approx)
how on earth will ducati make that bike worth 12.5K MORE than the 1098S and still not piss off the desmosedici owners who'll be spending 65K for THEIR bikes

for example
in hp numbers

1098 - 160
desmo - "greater than 200"
so..... the 1188 will have 180?
is 20hp worth 12.5K MORE than the 1098S?

so....
what do YOU think
what will be on the 1188 to make it worth 12.5K More than the 1098S and STILL not UPstage the desmosedici, costing twice as much (65K)?
Where do you think the 2008 848 and 848R (assuming they make an R version) will sit in the Ducati pecking order ($/bhp)? This is a relevant question too and may affect more people since the desmocedici is out of the financial league for many Ducati fans. I suppose the 848R would be more than a 1098S and way less than a 1188R?
 

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bah humbug............The rumor about the production of the 1188R might not be a rumor, I heard from one of my unreliable sources that he heard from his source .......whom heard from their source(a janitor at the Duc factory).,yes that indeed do Ducati is thinking about making more motorcycles..................
 

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If one assumes that Ducati is able to warranty an 1188 with similar assumptions of reliability as their most highly tuned big-bore streetbike (the 999R), then it is reasonable to expect that similar BMEP will be achieved by the 1188 and not much more. Even the current 1098 (1099cc) is not as highly tuned as the 999R, so using the 999R state of tune for the 1188R would yield 180 BHP at the crank, assuming the same rev ceiling can be reached as with the 999R by the longer stroke required to derive 1188cc of displacement - thus about the same power as the current Japanese 1000cc I-4s, which makes absolute sense.

The 1188R would then realistically be putting out no more than 160 RWHP or so. This assumes that the 1188R would be able to rev as high as the 999R, which should not be a problem in street time, because the 999R rev ceiling is relatively modest for its short stroke.

The problem for the 1188R is simply getting sufficiently short stroke to allow the revs while being limited by the max bore size it can realistically have.

It's unreasonable to expect the 1188R to have a much bigger bore than the current 1099/999R (104MM)......maybe up to a max of 107MM or so - because they start running into major challenges with flame propagation/burn and detonation with such huge bores.

So, if the 1188R is limited to a 107MM bore, then the stroke has to be 66MM to get 1187cc. Close enough to the rumoured 1188cc, in my book.

Assuming the 66MM stroke, which just so happens to be the identical stroke as the iconic 916/996 bikes, then there should not be a major issue with the 1188R street bike revving to round the same peak RPM as the 999R (11000 RPM, with max power down at 9750RPM or so), so the 160RWHP seems imminently doable for the street bike, but I wonder how they propose to achieve Japanese level W/SBK levels of power without being able to rev the motor as high as the current 999R based W/SBK. The 66MM stroke cannot rev as high as the 999R 58.8MM stroke. Simple as that. I doubt the 1188R will make much more than the 999R W/SBK does, given its lower RPM limit, despite the displacement increase. It can be only marginally more powerful, with current technology in metalurgy.

So, IMO, the 1188R will make a more competitive street and track-day bike at the levels below W/SBK, but I do wonder how much more reliable and competitive it could be at W/SBK levels of competition. It's going to be interesting to see how they work this displacement opportunity to provide competitive power at reduced cost, which is their main aim. I think it's going to be difficult to achieve.
 

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Someone does know the engineering behind the V-twin(other than just conjecture as Chuckracer stated)...Thanks for some insight into this hypothetical 1188R engine .......Wonder what other bits than just a bigger displacement engine will give it then`R` designation.
 
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