Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your bike HERE to be a part of this months Bike of the Month Challenge!

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Mr Leakered
Joined
·
8,859 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I just completed the 30k service, including new fuel lines using the Clamptite tool.

Since, I've put on 65mi over the past 2days commuting. On the way home last night, the ST just died with no warning, both cylinders. No stumbles. Nothing.

Luckily, the fairings were still off. On the roadside, I was able to verify fuel (somewhat) and spark on the horizontal head. It was cranking strong for quite a while (several tries, 10sec each). The battery never gave up.

So, we put the trailer together and got the bike home safely. Again, verified spark on both cylinders, fuel going down the inlet, and saw all four intake valves moving. The resistance on the cranks sensor was high (960ohm), but when disconnected, spark was lost. I removed the shim just for grins. Checked every fuse and connection that I could get my hands on. Swappped relays and tried a new yellow relay up front (ignition relay?).

No clashing noises. A bit more splashing in the tank than normal, but no dripping or otherwise.

The biggest issue is that I did not hear one pop, backfire, or otherwise the whole time I was trying last night as if there were no spark or fuel. We could smell fuel after cranking.

On the Tender, I was reading 13.5v. Cranking it would decrease down the 11s and hold then drop off. It was definitely about 10.5v for several cranks. I pulled the signal lead on the starter solenoid just to verify. Reconnected and the engine turned.

I’m lost. Any ideas? I don’t have VDST. From the sounds of it, the software would be less expensive than any other diagnostics.

The only thing I can wonder about is the amount of fuel needed to start. Looking down the intake, the fuel sort of dribbles out of the injectors. It is definitely not a spray. My assumption is that here should be enough in the cylinder to get some reaction to a spark even if it doesn’t exactly run.

I’m going to drain the tank tonight to be sure. Would fuel flow at all to the injectors if the line from the filter popped off at the bottom of the tank with 4.5gal in there?

Thanks.
 

·
unM0derator
Joined
·
2,853 Posts
No clashing noises. A bit more splashing in the tank than normal, but no dripping or otherwise....Looking down the intake, the fuel sort of dribbles out of the injectors. It is definitely not a spray. My assumption is that here should be enough in the cylinder to get some reaction to a spark even if it doesn’t exactly run.
Thanks.
Sounds like fuel lines in the tank separated.

Someone in the forum needs to do a fuel pressure gauge mod. :D
 

·
Life is too short to worry !
Joined
·
2,650 Posts
Tony - I would stick with the simplest suspect first and that is fuel supply.

Your battery sounds really strong , I have known mine to start with the engine barely turning over so pretty sure you dont have an ignition problem.

You should be smelling fumes and if you remove a plug it should be wet from all the unused fuel. The engine will start/run with barely a drop in the tank so it wont be lack of header fuel as the pump will use the very last drop before dying.

I would suggest removing the tank and rechecking the work you carried out , as stated above , it sounds like a fuel line problem. It may be tthat everything you did was fine but in doing so you disturbed some other item which then failed/disconnected

Good Luck
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
551 Posts
Definitely sounds like a fuel line problem. The hoses are under a bunch of pressure and maybe you didn't get a hose clamp tightened up quite enough and it finally blew off.
 

·
Mr Leakered
Joined
·
8,859 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks everyone. I'm just surprised that I didn't get a backfire or anything with the dribbles that did come out of the injectors.

I tried probing the tank with a flashlight and mirror, but couldn't see enough of the connections. Getting 4.5gal out without a monster mess is going to be a two man job.

You guy are right. It is the easiest solution out of the remaining possibilities.

Just to think that I was going to route the filter externally so that I could monitor the condition and not have to open the tank every 6k. ;)

Have a good one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
523 Posts
Lowe's hardwware has an electric siphon that runs off of 2 D batteries, which ofddly enough, come with it. I was surpised as hell when I saw the price tag of $6.99. It will just about empty your full tank in 3-4 minutes.
That's what I usually do then I remove the tank. Once the tank is on the bench I drain the rest out through the drain plug on rear right corner of the tank. If you have the right funnel you could probably drain it through the plug into a container before taking the tank off. I wouldn't recommend that because it's hard to get to the plug without tilting the tank and you don't want to do that when it's more than half full.
Bill W.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,552 Posts
Let us know how it turns out. I am in agreement with everyone else, most likely some fueling issue and if there was not an issue B4 you serviced then thats the first place I would look. Goodluck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
Sometime when a hose inside the tank has burst or poped off, when you disconnect the return line on the underside of the tank, fuel will continually flow from the tank rather than a small amount and then it stops. If you experience continual fuel flow after disconnecting this line, just run a length of hose to a gas holding tank off to the side of the bike. You won't get all of the fuel out but you will get most of it out and then you can use the drain plug to get the balance out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
494 Posts
Regarding emptying the tank...
I just used a piece of clear hose. About 3' long. I zip tied a stick (in my case a bamboo skewer) to one end to create a stiff straight piece of the line. then siphoned it into a gas can. It got to the very bottom of the tank to the point that no spillage occurred when I flipped the tank upside down.
Now that i have gone through this process once, the next time it'll be very easy.
Hopefully you'll find something simple.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
sucking gas

I take advantage of the venturi principle to siphon gas from my tanks – same principle that takes place in carburetors. I put one end of the drain hose in the gas tank. The other end of the hose has a small hole in the side of it, about 1” up from the end - just big enough to fit the tip of a needle-nosed air nozzle into it. Hold the end of the hose lower than the gas tank slightly into the gas can and put the tip of the air nozzle into the small hole in the side of the hose and blow air into the hose. Point the nozzle slightly towards the open end of the hose (you don't want the pressurized air flowing up into the hose). This will create a vacuum in the hose and pull the gas out of the tank, into the hose. Once the siphon starts remove the nozzle. I don’t know how much air pressure is needed for this to work, but my air compressor runs from 90 – 120 psi and that works fine.
Another method I’ve used is to put the hose in the tank, with the other end in a gas can. Stick the tip of the air nozzle into the tank and seal the tank opening well with a rag or something. Blowing air into the tank will pressurize it and force gas out the hose. Again once the siphon starts remove the nozzle and rag. This method seems to work well with pretty full tank and a good seal over the cover so that the pressurized air doesn’t leak out to much. I try not to get too much pressure in the tank, I don't know if excessive preasure will bulge the tank or destroy anything inside. It doesn't take much pressure to start the siphon anyway.
Unless you like gas fumes in your lungs and the taste of gas in your mouth, these methods work better than sucking it out. The old gas wasn't so bad, I just can't get used to 10% ethonal stuff. :D
 

·
Mr Leakered
Joined
·
8,859 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for all the siphoning tips. I'll let you know how it goes. I was just having bad memories of sucking on a garden hose shoved into a tank. :p Ah, the good old days.

I had intended to tear into it last night, but a customer meeting ran late. Crossing my fingers for tonight. I am missing my smile-filled rides at the ends of each day. That and the garage is tight with the Duc shoved toward the far end.

BTW, the Clamptite is a very good tool. I did practice on a couple garden hoses that needed some work. Since you need to swing the tool 180deg to complete the clamp, the fuel pump it a tight spot.

Have a good one.
 

·
Mr Leakered
Joined
·
8,859 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Well, here's the promised update. The fuel hose popped off of the fuel pump. A small barb on the fitting would probably have prevented it, but in the end it was all me. I didn't get the clamp tight enough.

The fuel was siphoned with not much of a problem. Being that our kitchen sink was massively clogged also, I was delayed in getting to the ST (Note to wife: five cups of rice is not a good thing to jamb down the disposal). So, I had to settle for the old school method. Only a very little taste of fuel. No real mess. That was covered up with some good IPA. It's called Two Pint for a reason (9%). :rolleyes:

So for everyone, even if you see a trickle/dribble/sputter of fuel out of the injectors, it doesn't really mean that everything in the tank is in good shape. I'm still surprised about that since a few others wittnessed this also. I was too worried about flooding the engine to start squirting fuel down the intake.

I got to ride in today with a huge smile the whole way. The fairings are going on this afternoon. I'm good for another 5,925mi. :D

Thanks for all the advice.

Have a good one.
 

·
Life is too short to worry !
Joined
·
2,650 Posts
Great news , Have a good one yourself :))
 

·
Member
Joined
·
7,733 Posts
...I didn't get the clamp tight enough...
I switched mine to "#4" hose claps that I got from the Ducati delaership, as the ones from the factory were to big. Did you change the fuel filter while you were in there? A dirty filter will put more presure on the lines making them more likely to pop off. Bad for the pump too.
 

·
Mr Leakered
Joined
·
8,859 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
stryder,

I opted for the Clamptite tool the LT sales. I was aware of that issue with the OEM clamps. I just didn't get it tight enough. After I installed a wire clamp yesterday, I found it increased the diameter enough for one of the OEM clamps to work. So, I threw one on gently over top of the wire clamp for good measure. I know. . .

Along with the fact that those lines seemed to be original, the plan was to relocate the filter externally. The problem was that there was no support for the air separator. So, I just installed a new filter internally. Most of the hoses looked okay and didn't crumble at all. Although, the shorty between the filter and flange was in bad shape.

I'll be interested to see the condition in there over the next couple services.

Have a good one.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top