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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now that the weather is hot, I have run into a problem with the starting on the HM. The engine starts up fine and will run for about 30 seconds at about 1200 rpm, then it will quit. When I restart it, it usually will quit again after 30 seconds of idling. Usually after the third start, it will keep itself idling fine. I have tried holding the throttle open for the thirty second period, tried reving it up etc. but chances are it will quit running until I start riding it. After a few minutes of riding, the idle stabilizes and its not a problem. The first start of the morning it doesn't have this issue.
I know sometimes things like this are the norm, but figured I would check with you guys before I start squawking at the dealer. I have owned and ridden plenty of other fuel injected bikes and none of them had this issue.

I am thinking the fumes from the fuel tank vent going into the carbon cannister when it sits in the heat is getting sucked into the engine at start up making the mixture to rich and causing the issue. Oh yea, my HM is all stock.
 

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Sadly, theres about 250 other threads here about the same problem, myself included. Seems all of our dealers have a problem setting the idle correctly while others will chime in that it is our own fault for replacing the exhaust and ECU. I am the type of bastard that calls his service dept. once a week and gives them a hard time about this. They always act shocked? Big suprise there. It seems to be like every twin I've ever owned actually. Anyways, heres someone else to tell you how to blip the throttle smooth and not jerk it. Or is that the rifle range?vvvv:think:
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yea, I have read the 250 threads...nothing seemed conclusive. In the cold weather I had no problems. That was what lead me to believe the charcoal canister was filling up with evap fumes from the tank (due to the heat) and then sucking them into the engine on start-up.

My 2007 Harley Sportster rarely would die after start up. Only if it died after the first start, on the second start the ECU would kick the throttle up to about 2000 rpm for about 30 seconds to keep it from cutting out. When Harley first Fuel injected the Sportster, they said it took them a year to get the ECU setup properly for even running. They did a great job.

All these aircooled engine bike manufactures are having issues with keeping the emmisions under control and also keeping the bikes running acceptable.

Funny though, I rode a Monster 1100...it was 10 times smoother, no jerky throttle and it started like a champ.....Now I know why they dumped the Marrelli F.I. and went to the Seimens system.
 

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Mine does the same thing too, even with no evap canister hooked up. I did try raising the idle speed slightly, and playing with the air bleeds, but it still happens some. it was much less frequent when I ran with a gutted cat and cored pipes, once I put the cat back on (this is with the stock ecu) it started stalling again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well I just got done checking the TPS and setting the idle. The TPS was at 2.8 and the idle was at 1250 so I bumped it up to 1300 and reset the TPS.
I don't believe this will solve my issue but they were two things that were definitely off.
I took it for a ride and did find that coming off the throttle and rolling to a stop, it held the idle up until I came to a full stop and then it idled down to 1300 rpm. It reminded me that it use to do that when it was new but I guess it disappeared somewhere along the line and I never realized it.
I do need to get a mercury balancer so I can do a proper idle set and balance.
 

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I haven't (knock on wood) experienced this issue, but if there's some concern that it's a lean condition in closed loop, a simple solution might be a FatDuc O2 manipulator.

Although mine was lean (the same as they all are) I wasn't having any stalling issues (with or without the charcoal canister. Note that I pulled mine off and just ran one of the lines between the throttle bodies rather than try and vacuum plug them individually). But with the fatduc at 13.5/1, it's a real peach to ride at part throttle now, regardless of the gear.
 

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I also believe it's an issue of being too lean and not rich at idle. in the winter I noticed my red glowing pipes at idle, and since try not to idle too much. I usually restart after it dies, and it's okay after that.
 

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I live in a hot and humid climate all year round 26C-38C with humidity 35-75%
Could it be the diff in altitude for those comparing within the US?

I've never had such problems when with stock setup, now I have Zard Penta slipons, removed CAT and DP Racing ECU, DP airbox cover. No problems either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I also believe it's an issue of being too lean and not rich at idle. in the winter I noticed my red glowing pipes at idle, and since try not to idle too much. I usually restart after it dies, and it's okay after that.
Is the cat glowing red also? if so that is an excessive rich mixture.

I do have a fat duc O2, I took it off till I could sort out my current idling problem. I am still working out how to set the fat duc up. I don't quite understand how the "silver dot" is full rich and full clockwise is also full rich and full counter clockwise is full lean.

Riding into work today after resetting things up, the engine ran better than it ever has, no popping, surging or jerky throttle response. I am crossing my fingers that when I leave work today, it starts and idles like it did this morning.
 

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I do have a fat duc O2, I took it off till I could sort out my current idling problem. I am still working out how to set the fat duc up. I don't quite understand how the "silver dot" is full rich and full clockwise is also full rich and full counter clockwise is full lean.
The silver dot should match the full clockwise position: the arrow built
into the white/rotating portion of the trimmer should point at the silver
dot when fully clockwise. In general, the silver dot can be ignored as it
is superfluous, but it can be used as a reminder of which way to turn for
richer Vs. leaner settings.
 

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Is the cat glowing red also? if so that is an excessive rich mixture.

I do have a fat duc O2, I took it off till I could sort out my current idling problem. I am still working out how to set the fat duc up. I don't quite understand how the "silver dot" is full rich and full clockwise is also full rich and full counter clockwise is full lean.

Riding into work today after resetting things up, the engine ran better than it ever has, no popping, surging or jerky throttle response. I am crossing my fingers that when I leave work today, it starts and idles like it did this morning.
It's just a dial that doesn't turn through an entire 360 degrees. All the way clockwise will align the groove you fit a screwdriver into with the dot. That's full rich. All the way in the other direction, counter-clockwise, is full lean (which is still richer than stock).
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well as far as I can tell, my problem is gone. Resetting the TPS and idle has cured it. Trying to start it up leaving work is the when it was at its worse. But yesterday it started and idled fine, at one point it did dip a little low on the RPM but it never quit running. I rode it around last night making multiple stops running errands. Evertime I started the engine, it was fine.
Cross my fingers and hope it stays that way.
Thanks for the info on the Fat Duc...I think the wording in the setup sheet is what's throwing me off. I started out using 13.3ish that seemed run the best, maybe a little rich. That setting dropped the MPG down to 38 along with an occational check engine light coming on at start up. I finally ended up running 13.8ish, which seemed to run well with a 44mpg avg and no check engine light.
 

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Well as far as I can tell, my problem is gone. Resetting the TPS and idle has cured it. Trying to start it up leaving work is the when it was at its worse. But yesterday it started and idled fine, at one point it did dip a little low on the RPM but it never quit running. I rode it around last night making multiple stops running errands. Evertime I started the engine, it was fine.
Cross my fingers and hope it stays that way.
Thanks for the info on the Fat Duc...I think the wording in the setup sheet is what's throwing me off. I started out using 13.3ish that seemed run the best, maybe a little rich. That setting dropped the MPG down to 38 along with an occational check engine light coming on at start up. I finally ended up running 13.8ish, which seemed to run well with a 44mpg avg and no check engine light.
Erm... 13:8 is richer than 13:3. Richer won't increase your mpg no matter which way you cut it.
 

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Erm... 13:8 is richer than 13:3. Richer won't increase your mpg no matter which way you cut it.
Nah, the number is Air:Fuel ratio. Higher numerically means more air/
less fuel (which is the same as leaner).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I meant to say I settled on 13.3 because 13.8 was too rich. I still am not having any starting problems going into the third day since I made the adjustments.
Although once while making a left turn, I slowed halfway through the turn to give some space to the car in front of me and the engine did the all to common random engine stall that a lot of other HM owners are experiencing. :mad:
I only had this happen twice before during break in without the fat duc installed.
Sad to think that someday someone is going to have the engine quit while riding and get runover by someone else. I better reinstall the Fat Duc so I don't become a statistic. I would imagine Ducati will end up having a recall to fix this engine stall issue, its just a matter of time. The engine stall after start is merely an annoyance but stalling while in the middle of an intersection is flat out dangerous.
 
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