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Discussion Starter #1
MM can ride the Honda that no one else can. He is always fast from first practice till he takes the flag. Either the bike is a bucking bronco or he treats it like one. He is far from smooth and is unbelievable where he passes, putting so much stress on the front. So riddle me this. Why is he the ONLY rider to NEVER have tyre issues or ever complain about tyres and hardly ever says “we need to look at the settings” for more performance. Is he really that good or is something in the background that I’m missing?
 

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He has the same issues but can still ride around them, Stoner was another that could do this, and Quartararo is learning to do this, Lorenzo has forgotten how to do this.
 

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You can't have it both ways... ride the wheels off a bike from go to whoa and still have more rubber left than the rest of the field at the end.
And.. when he runs out of fuel on the cool down lap that indicates a large average percentage of throttle has been employed the whole race long.
That should have consequnces for tyre degradation, shouldn't it?
In other words he's not babying the tyres with throttle maps..... but maybe his IMU is.....
 

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Perhaps he's just a master of maintaining momentum .... I would reckon a guess that hard stop/go riding would kill the tires, where as maintaining a more steady momentum would not. Fuel? ... perhaps he's just using more fuel (that is to say, demanding more power) while keeping that momentum up. Perhaps they're not completely filling the tank, calculating the absolute minimum fuel load to complete a given race on a given track ... calculations made from qualifying times and years previous notes.

I mean, it's either that or he/his team is cheating (IMU issues, sneaky programming, etc). There are no other alternatives.

Some riders (and car racers) just have a better feel for things. The late Dale Earnhart Sr. (NASCAR) used to be so good at passing that it was rumored he could actually "see air". Of course he could not see air, but he most certainly could make a connection between what he felt in the seat of his pants (his car's movements), the feedback the steering wheel provided, and the draft/air flow around his own car as well as the side draft and rear draft of the other cars.

Kenny Roberts also had a special talent that made him a legend. On dirt tracks, he'd outrun the Harley XR750s with the underpowered Yamaha XS650 he rode. How? That special "sixth sense" (if you will) he possessed that allowed him to do what he did. His first year in Europe in GP racing (mid 1970s), he murdered the Euro racers .... even during rain races when not a single Euro supplier or race team would provide him with rain tires. He just cut his own tires ... and won ... with a broken back!

Some people just have the right stuff. It's why the word "Champion" is awarded to some of them. They're not mundanes, they are champions.

"Go .. Blow .. Or Put A Hole In The Fence!" 🏁
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Evening Rexy. I used to think this as well but there seems to be something amiss here. I know he’s awesome BUT things stand out like dogs balls as far as his tyres and setup go. Something’s not kosher here. Conspiracy theory maybe on my behalf but definitely something going on in the background.
 

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Rexy...

Momentum... bullshit.
MM is no Lorenzo, he has probably the fastest bike in a straight line and he is a very heavy late braker.
Of course their filling the tank, there 's a specific fuel capacity limit and they have no previous data at that track with that motor.
 

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I thought it was well known that they were hacking the IMU, to have a "lean angle" torque control, based on the IMU signal to the ECU.
When Dorna wanted to have a control IMU, Honda said " they would pull out if it was done", so nothing has changed and Marquez enjoys everlasting tyres. :cool:
 

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In other words they are running traction control.
I wish they would pull out.
 

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Rexy...

Momentum... bullshit.
MM is no Lorenzo, he has probably the fastest bike in a straight line and he is a very heavy late braker.
Of course their filling the tank, there 's a specific fuel capacity limit and they have no previous data at that track with that motor.
I was just trying to offer two possible alternatives. I mean, if it isn't talent, then it must be cheating. It's really that simple. No matter if Dorna is turning a blind eye or it's some other ~thing~ ... it's offering Marquez some sort of unfair advantage. So it's either cheating, or talent. There is no other alternative.

I'd point out that you're offering unproven conjecture without any other alternative notion. Provide evidence (other than conjecture, which is not evidence) or at least try to provide a second alternative. At this point, all you've got is a conspiracy theory. I guess I'm relying on my years of investigative training and actual investigative experience (perhaps too heavily). But in my previous career field "you got nothin until you have somethin" when it comes to making a cognitive decision about what is a sure thing.

So I still say it's either MM's team/talent has something legal going on that keeps them up front .... or it's cheating. But I've seen no solid evidence of either, therefor there's a 50/50 probability it's either one. Until some type of hard evidence is provided it's just as likely to be one, or the other.

🤔
 

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Rex.... a lot of people get put away for murder without a body being found.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
And a cop will work on a “hunch” and find evidence. As an investigator you look for evidence due to or because of.....or do you just sit around eating donuts until you see something happen?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I was just trying to offer two possible alternatives. I mean, if it isn't talent, then it must be cheating. It's really that simple. No matter if Dorna is turning a blind eye or it's some other ~thing~ ... it's offering Marquez some sort of unfair advantage. So it's either cheating, or talent. There is no other alternative.

I'd point out that you're offering unproven conjecture without any other alternative notion. Provide evidence (other than conjecture, which is not evidence) or at least try to provide a second alternative. At this point, all you've got is a conspiracy theory. I guess I'm relying on my years of investigative training and actual investigative experience (perhaps too heavily). But in my previous career field "you got nothin until you have somethin" when it comes to making a cognitive decision about what is a sure thing.

So I still say it's either MM's team/talent has something legal going on that keeps them up front .... or it's cheating. But I've seen no solid evidence of either, therefor there's a 50/50 probability it's either one. Until some type of hard evidence is provided it's just as likely to be one, or the other.

🤔
Rexy. “, therefore there’s a 50/50 probably it’s either one.” Man I like those odds. So if I enter a motogp race there’s a 50/50 chance I could win or not win.…........
 

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MM can ride the Honda that no one else can. He is always fast from first practice till he takes the flag. Either the bike is a bucking bronco or he treats it like one. He is far from smooth and is unbelievable where he passes, putting so much stress on the front. So riddle me this. Why is he the ONLY rider to NEVER have tyre issues or ever complain about tyres and hardly ever says “we need to look at the settings” for more performance. Is he really that good or is something in the background that I’m missing?
One does have to wonder. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

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Marquez is better at keeping a bike at its handling limits for a longer period of time over a lap than any other rider. He is the only rider who can save crashes consistently and brought new levels of lean angles to MotoGP when he arrived; both which demonstrates his superiority at the limit. Another demonstration of this ability is his qualifying performance which demonstrates the ability to manage the limit over a single lap. If you have two riders on equal machines racing, the winner will be the one who can apply the greatest performance potential of the machine over the longest period of time over laps. To win you have to be able to manage the limit for a single lap, as well as for the length of an entire race. The ability to manage at the edge of performance limits (braking, accelerating and turning) yields greater flexibility in lines in turns (critical for passing) as well as better ability to manage (deal with) tire wear. This is somewhat the same thing as saying he is better able to ride around the limits of a bike. What are limits to the riding of others are things he can manage.

Lastly while I get the comment about Marquez not being smooth, I think the comment is inconsistent with the facts. You don't recover crashes by not being smooth. You don't achieve higher lean angles than other riders by not being smooth. Marquez is likely the smoothest rider of all riders at the limit. This is one of the things that gives him his superiority at the limit. Put another way, he is the smoothest rider of all riders when smooth counts the most.
 

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yorik or chucky. Have we lost the ability to edit or delete posts?
At the top of your post, next to your post title there is an "edit"...button, tab whatever. It works.

As for Marquez, and Honda cheating.....I can't say they are, or aren't. I can say, I watched Marquez in all the lower classes. From that I learned he has everyone's number. He can ride what others cannot. He carries a great deal more corner speed when he needs to, and can slide the rear with the best when needed.

In Moto2, he won consistently on the Speed Up when others complained of chatter. The chatter was so bad, you could hear it through his on board camera. So much so, my son even asked what that noise was. Marquez simply rode through it. Like it didn't even exist.

Based on that observation alone, I would say his talent is 98% of the equation. Honda tampering with the ECU? Maybe 1%...if in fact they are tampering. My recollection is, everyone had to use the same Magneti-Marelli unit but they were free to program it as they liked.

Ducati even provided the base program to help out. Logically, Honda have found a way to make it work after what, 4 years of using it? That isn't surprising. At all. .....sean
 

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Based on that observation alone, I would say his talent is 98% of the equation. Honda tampering with the ECU? Maybe 1%...if in fact they are tampering. My recollection is, everyone had to use the same Magneti-Marelli unit but they were free to program it as they liked.
Yes they all use the control ECU, but the IMU is a different unit, that measures the inertia movement of the bike, that a inbuilt computer turns into the lean angle that is sent to the ECU. That's where the IMU information is 'modified' to suit Honda's advantage.
Ducati mount it up high in the 'salad' box to increase its movement, to their advantage.
 
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