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Discussion Starter #1
Lots of turmoil at the AMA and Honda is pissed about the recent interpretation of the F/X rules which now allow the Buell to race. Hmmm... no one walked off last year when Honda managed to turn the 200 from the traditional Superbike race into a parade for Honda 600s...

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Feb/060218e.htm

Lots more at superbikeplanet.com and surely more to come in the near future...
 

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good, so honda didn't get their way. remember how they got the AMA to put more weight on the ducatis in the 90's. hopefully the daytona 200, will not be the 200 by honda again this year.
 

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I'm crying, the big bad bully Honda didn't get their way. So they're going to pick-up their ball and go cry :D
 
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I'm not realy surprised, they have been manipulating racing rules like that for years. I'm wondering when they'll get their "pay-back" for this kind of attitude...

Maybe this year in the WSBK series. I really hope so; it would be a very big slap in that arrogant "face" (maybe anly a bit but still arrogant).

My 0.2 euros.

Doc
 

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I remember laughing when Honda started to market the Daytona 200 and Formula Extreme as being the "most hotly contested/ competitive" series in AMA. They were promoting Miguel and his wins, but there were no other factory supported riders in FX at the time...also, Honda pulled out of AMA Supersport because they couldn't win without heavily modifying the CBR600RR, which they were able to in FX.

I think Doug Chandler got a few podiums in FX on his 749r right? or was that 2004?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
'04 for Chandler. Ryan Andrews campaigned a 749R last year.

When Honda couldn't win Superbike, they turned the 200 into a minibike race. Any wonder that some high school football games draw nearly as many fans as they get at Daytona?
 

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+1

MikeM said:
'04 for Chandler. Ryan Andrews campaigned a 749R last year.

When Honda couldn't win Superbike, they turned the 200 into a minibike race. Any wonder that some high school football games draw nearly as many fans as they get at Daytona?
 

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I'm not a Honda fan, but allowing that Buell RR to race without meeting the stated homologation rules was a mistake by the AMA. But, then, Harley doesn't play by the rules, now, do they?
 

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now lets see what the Buell does...if it beats the Honda....then they should go full fledged HRC nuts and do the same thing...otherwise....itsa moot issue to some degree....Harley has always carried some influence with the AMA regardless of the rules.....
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Hmm... what if they had a 200 and nobody came? Nobody but Honda, anyway.

And which whining manufacturer was it that leaned on AMA Pro Racing and got the F/X race changed to a 200 miler last year? Hint. Certainly wasn't Suzuki.

BTW, F/X was never conceived as a "Superbike race for factory 600's". It was an offshoot of the BOTT and the Buell Pro Thunder - a mixed-displacement race for multiple manufacturers and one that might actually get some fans in the seats. Buells DID race in F/X last year and no one complained. So...

Does anyone actually think a Buell has a chance to manage even a *decent* finish in the 200 much less a win? Honda, nobody gives a Flying Merkel about your precious minibike race and nobody is going to take it away. Nobody on a Buell, anyway. "Legal" or not.
 

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"A frequently heard criticism of the AMA Pro Racing board was that it was tilted too much in favor of American Honda's needs. Critics labeled the board the "Ray AMA", named after now former AMA Pro and AMA trustee board member (and Honda VP) Ray Blank. In support of this opinion, many people still cling to the belief that Honda was behind the Daytona 200 becoming a 600 FX race and that Honda entered their bikes in the class because it'd be an easy win for their factory team.

In reality, it was the Daytona International Speedway that pushed for the 200 to become a 600 race because of safety concerns, and Honda showed their immediate support for the 200 by entering their factory team, and hoped other OEMs would as well. In fact, there is little evidence that the AMA Pro Racing board was tilted in Honda's favor in roadracing, and moreover, with the current Buell XBRR situation in mind, it's pretty clear that Honda doesn't even have the internal pull Buell enjoys at the AMA. "Ray AMA" indeed."



Interesting read over on AMASUPERBIKE.com. I think with the recent problems that the AMA has had with both rules and attracting the major manufacturers to one single class are self evident. I doubt Honda has any more pull at the AMA than Suzuki. Right now AMA is quite dysfunctional and need some serious work. Hopefully cleaning house and starting with a fresh sheet of paper will improve a pretty lackluster series.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Soup is a good source but keep in mind they depend on advertisers for support and goodwill to/from manufacturers for "inside stories". So I take all the above with a grain of salt.

Anybody want to tackle this one: If the track isn't safe for Superbikes going 200 miles/75 laps (with pit stops) how can it be safe for Superbikes for 75 miles/25 laps and NO pit stops? Regardless of the race distance, tires on a Superbike are shagged well before the 25 laps and that's where the danger comes from. Besides, Mladin did three pit stops two years ago while many did only two. And what's more dangerous, a 200 mile race on 600's with two pit stops or a 200 mile race on Superbikes with three?

Still unaddressed is the "F/X goes 200 miles" issue. F/X was created as mixed-displacement, multiple manufacturer event, NOT the jewel in AMA racing. Doing whatever it takes to put MORE manufacturers in a competitive position might bring fans to the stands and viewers to their tubes. More of what we had last year won't. There have been various rule manipulations - both to weight and displacement - in WSB over the years. Getting more manufacturers on the podium hasn't hurt them.

The *real* problem isn't the Daytona track or illegal bikes or tires. It's attendance/TV viewership or lack thereof. No fans and no viewers means no TV money. The current race situation is confusing and contrived. In today's TV world an unemployed painter with a few gallons of leftover paint is enough for a reality TV show but even in bike-filled Daytona, the AMA 200 will draw about the same number as some all-you-can eat restaurants. THAT'S what needs to be fixed. And Honda pulling out of the organization won't help.
 

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I am really enjoying AMA and WSBK now that Honda isn't doing anything. I hope it stays that way this year too.
 

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mike, daytona is still 57 laps i believe. so three tire changes would be every 19 laps. also they could take a page from the nascar people and limit horsepower to say 150 or 160. the superbike race this year is 15 laps i believe, that should be 55-60 miles. i really don't like mini bike races.

i realize dirt track racing is not a big item on this forum, but once honda decided to dominate that too. and they did for a couple of years. they built a 750 cc flat tracker that was identical to the XR harley. it looked the same and sounded the same and they won a few grand national titles. i wish they had stayed in dirt track and kept the fight going.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks John. Good point but I think it's all the same thing. Whether the tires start to go away once in a race or once before every pitstop, that's where the danger is.

BIG flattrack fan here. Or was when I lived in the midwest. Indy, DuQuoin, Hinsdale, Peoria... Just can't believe they can't get more fans. A big loss to all motorcycle fans.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. For those who have never seen a mile race, GO. Nothing like a mile race. Nothing.

BTW, there are a few guys putting together an Aprilia flattracker and have done reasonably well with it. I wish them all the best.

Motorcycle racing is a great sport. Until the AMA can get it together, five comatose poker players are a better draw as far as TV is concerned.
 
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