[Joe-B]

I did a track day at Miller on Labor day and I discovered a problem. On the long straight, I seemed to run out of acceleraton at 7500-8000 RPMs. I know this is a problem with the 2 valve engines due to the small ports and long intakes. My question is how can I improve this for the least money (naturally).
1. The bike is a 1997 SS/SP with stock displacement and Weisco/FBF 11:1 pistons.
2. It has 41 mm Keihin FCRs, no airbox top and Silmoto headers with Hindle carbon cans.
3. The gearing is 15/39, which I intend to change to 15/37.

Between 4,000 and 7,500 RPMs it pulls like gangbusters. Acceleration is only a problem above 7,500 in top gear. Martin Brickwood Testarossa heads come to mind. Would I have to get the split-single FCRs on short Malossi intakes then, or could I use the stock intakes with the racked FCRs on the stock airbox? All thoughts would be appreciated :think:!
Joe

 

[rz33v4]

Wrong tool for the task. Find a nice 748r if you want something fun for track days. The 4V motors are just designed to perform better on the long straights.

 

[woodyracing]

Wrong tool for the task. Find a nice 748r if you want something fun for track days. The 4V motors are just designed to perform better on the long straights.

just wanted to say that that is a load of crap. I've got friends racing Ninja 250s just for the hell of it, you don't have to have a fast bike to enjoy riding on the track.

 

[sledgrehammer]

Wrong tool for the task. Find a nice 748r if you want something fun for track days

You have to suit your driving style according to the bike you are driving. There is no sense in revving 2V ducati if it isn't built to take lots of revs. Still it's a bit strange if it doesn't go above 7500rpm. My guess is that without airbox your engine is sucking in hot air and that doesn't help the situation. On the track i use revs beetween 5000 and 8000. Then it goes well and you can feel that the engine doesn't suffer much.

You can have a lot of fun with SS on the track. I have driven on the track days together with 749's 848's 996's and i don't have big troubles to keep up with them. Long straights are another story, but in general it is very nice bike on the track.

 

[Joe-B]

Wrong tool for the task. Find a nice 748r if you want something fun for track days. The 4V motors are just designed to perform better on the long straights.

rz33v4, that kind of response doesn't actually help. I am aware that there are other bikes out there. I like my SS and want some more top end out of it, not a different bike. Sledgrehammer, it will accelerate past 7,500, just not very quickly. I have an airbox, just the top is cut off. You are right, except for the longer straights, it will keep up with 748s, 999s, etc. It is gobs of fun on the track, and I've done a lot of stuff to it, but not much to the motor. I talked to Guy Martin at MBP in Canada yesterday and he said to send him the heads and he'd return them as his Testarossa heads (www.mbpducati.ca) with porting, bigger valves, short intake manifolds and split single FCRs for around $3000. He said with the stock displacement I could expect a 25% increase (about 77 hp->95 hp)throughout the rev range and it would pull to 10,000 RPMs. Chris Kelly suggested just dropping in a 1000 DS motor but that sounds like a lot of modification to the frame, etc. and anyhow, where do you get one? Oh well, time and money will tell. Anyone looking to buy the set of Keihin flatslide 41 FCRs I have now? I'll need to sell them since I would need to get the seperate individual ones.
Joe

 

[vickon]

PM-Sent

 

[curveman99]

Track

I've been Tracking my 900SS 1999 for the last two seasons here in Michigan and it sucks getting passed in the straights by inlines but I'm having a BLAST just learning ! I do see a inline 600 for next year Track days for myself and will make my SS the street bike.

The stock 900 just don't have the power to keep up with the 120+ HP bikes, the SV650 bikes are compared to the HP the SS brings to the Track and well I'm not running with the
Big Dogs but having just as much Fun!!

 

[motomfg]

This guy is selling a 1000DS. http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=72123 It's cheaper than the head work and you could get somthing $$$ for the motor you have now.

 

[rz33v4]

just wanted to say that that is a load of crap. I've got friends racing Ninja 250s just for the hell of it, you don't have to have a fast bike to enjoy riding on the track.

A load of crap? The guy wants more power for track straightaways. The SS 2V motor is the wrong one to address his issue. He has probably noticed the bikes whizzing by on the straights are all 4V watercooled. This is not a coincidence. The SS handles/brakes fine on the track, but lacks top end HP and, barring a huge expenditure (send your engine to NCR and they'll give you 120 HP for $25,000), always will compared to the 4V bikes.

 

[rz33v4]

rz33v4, that kind of response doesn't actually help. I am aware that there are other bikes out there. I like my SS and want some more top end out of it, not a different bike. Sledgrehammer, it will accelerate past 7,500, just not very quickly. I have an airbox, just the top is cut off. You are right, except for the longer straights, it will keep up with 748s, 999s, etc. It is gobs of fun on the track, and I've done a lot of stuff to it, but not much to the motor. I talked to Guy Martin at MBP in Canada yesterday and he said to send him the heads and he'd return them as his Testarossa heads (www.mbpducati.ca) with porting, bigger valves, short intake manifolds and split single FCRs for around $3000. He said with the stock displacement I could expect a 25% increase (about 77 hp->95 hp)throughout the rev range and it would pull to 10,000 RPMs. Chris Kelly suggested just dropping in a 1000 DS motor but that sounds like a lot of modification to the frame, etc. and anyhow, where do you get one? Oh well, time and money will tell. Anyone looking to buy the set of Keihin flatslide 41 FCRs I have now? I'll need to sell them since I would need to get the seperate individual ones.
Joe

Well, I've not dealt with Guy, but I don't believe you can make power to 10,000 RPMs on a Ducati 2V. My 944 with heads ported dyno'd at 95 HP, but the party is over just past 8000 RPMs. You could end up spending a lot of money on your SS motor and never achieve your goal. Your choice.

 

[woodyracing]

A load of crap? The guy wants more power for track straightaways. The SS 2V motor is the wrong one to address his issue. He has probably noticed the bikes whizzing by on the straights are all 4V watercooled. This is not a coincidence. The SS handles/brakes fine on the track, but lacks top end HP and, barring a huge expenditure (send your engine to NCR and they'll give you 120 HP for $25,000), always will compared to the 4V bikes.

sorry dude but I've said it before and I'll say it again, you don't need a fast bike to have fun at a trackday (though your ego might, mine doesn't). So yes, load of crap and you'll never convince this Lightweight twin racer that you have to have to have a bike with more than 100hp to have fun. I've ridden fast bikes on the track and the most fun I've had is on a first gen SV650 with horrible jetting.

 

[Joe-B]

Well, I've not dealt with Guy, but I don't believe you can make power to 10,000 RPMs on a Ducati 2V. My 944 with heads ported dyno'd at 95 HP, but the party is over just past 8000 RPMs. You could end up spending a lot of money on your SS motor and never achieve your goal. Your choice.

www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/heads/heads.html

Last year I did a track day on my Duc SS and one (same track) on my MV Agusta F4-1000s. Nobody passed me on the straights with the MV Agusta; however, I had a lot more fun on the Ducati (I traded the Agusta for a new Ducati ST3s).
Joe

 

[Joe-B]

This guy is selling a 1000DS. http://www.ducati.ms/forums/showthread.php?t=72123 It's cheaper than the head work and you could get somthing $$$ for the motor you have now.

Thanks. Do you know what's involved in mounting that motor in a 1997 SS frame?
Joe

 

[rz33v4]

www.ca-cycleworks.com/shop/heads/heads.html

Last year I did a track day on my Duc SS and one (same track) on my MV Agusta F4-1000s. Nobody passed me on the straights with the MV Agusta; however, I had a lot more fun on the Ducati (I traded the Agusta for a new Ducati ST3s).
Joe

The link said $6600 if you want the Max kit, you have the carb'd SS and they do all the labor. So, like I said, a lot of money spent and you still will be passed on the straights. If you recall, this thread originally asked how to get more straightaway speed on the track from his SS.

 

[rz33v4]

sorry dude but I've said it before and I'll say it again, you don't need a fast bike to have fun at a trackday (though your ego might, mine doesn't). So yes, load of crap and you'll never convince this Lightweight twin racer that you have to have to have a bike with more than 100hp to have fun. I've ridden fast bikes on the track and the most fun I've had is on a first gen SV650 with horrible jetting.

Hey, I get your point, but that's not the issue here. The guy asked how to get more straightaway speed on his SS, not what was the most fun to ride on the track.

 

[woodyracing]

I read this sentence and responded accordingly:

Find a nice 748r if you want something fun for track days.

as far as the OP, I tend to be of the theory of riding that unless your racing, if your not doing the fastest lap times your motorcycle is possibly capable of, there is no reason to make it faster in a straight line. The major benefit of riding a slow bike is trackdays is being forced to find other ways to make faster lap times. Rarely ever is the guy at a trackday with the fastest motorcycle also the rider turning the fastest lap times.

 

[rz33v4]

I read this sentence and responded accordingly:

And I suggested the 748R after owning that and my modded 900SS and tracking both bikes. The R was more fun on the straights, as the motor pulled harder up top than the SS. Both were fine in handling/brakes, with an edge to the R on those as well. Surprise, surprise, as the 748/916 bikes were designed as lightly disguised racebikes from the start, whereas the SS is/a;ways was a streetbike.

 

[curveman99]

Duc

Myself I wouldn't pay 6600 to upgrade my SS, I would buy a Track Bike that was Set Up used. In fact I would buy two for $6600 and have twice the Fun!!

My SS is was it is "Fun Learning " bike to ride at the track.

 

[Muschi]

Thanks. Do you know what's involved in mounting that motor in a 1997 SS frame?
Joe

not much more than two aluminum tubes with 10mm inside and 12mm
outside diameter, to capture the difference between your 10mm engine
bolts and the 12mm holes the SS1000DS engine has.
next thing is a new header, the inlet port positions are the same, your
carbs will bolt right on.

i'd do it, the 1000DS engine is great.

i got one for sale for 1500 Euros and nobody wants it, low mileage of course.

:think:

 

[wdietz186]

Joe-b, to get back to your original question what you need to do is get the short Malossi manifolds and the split FCR41s. The manifold length is what is killing the top end.The prevailing opinion is the long manifolds were used primarily so the carbs could be mounted in a common airbox to reduce noise to meet regs.The bad part is your present carbs can't be adapted as the cable cranks etc. aren't available seperately.BUT! I would think throngs of people will line up to buy your old setup in a heartbeat.With some higher compression pistons and mininum headwork a 900or 944 will be nipping at the heels and/or passing a 748 especially if the track has tight corners and short straights.