[diggyduo]

Hi all

I'm a bit confused about the headset bearings used on a 04 1000DS. Mine are in need of replacement, and I'd like to use taper bearings for the replacement. Some resources suggest most monster/hyper/ST's/streetfighter/multistradas/supersports use the same bearing. Other aftermarket bearing manufacturers offer bearing kits listing the same models, EXCEPT the supersport which would suggest either they are different, or they simply didn't bother listing the SS's for whatever reason. The part number for the bearing seems to different in my 1000DS manual (0691.91.010) compared to the monsters and 999 one's I have seen (702.4.004.1).

Can anyone help quell my confusion?

 

[Muschi]

hi there,

see following picture of a superbike head bearing ( left ),
and a supersport head bearing ( right ):








monsters etc. should have the same type of
bearing as the supersports.
the supersport bearing in the picture is marked
as follows: SKF Germany 639 174 - W 22 P

that Number should help you at any bearing supplier.

cheers

 

[st2lemans]

Superbikes and STs use the same size bearings, SSs do not, as the steering stem is a different size, as well as the OD.

In Muschi's picture, he has shown two different types of bearings (but you can see that the OD of the SB type is much larger than the SS type), but I currently have the tapered bearings shown on the right installed in my 999R (originally bought for my ST2, but I changed the triples so used the new bearings). I also have a new set of offest bearings (to increase steering head angle) for my SS of the same type, and they are much smaller.

I'll try to remember to measure them tomorrow.

Tom

 

[Muschi]

what is an off-set bearing ?, i'd like to see it.

:think:

i only now of off-set tripples so far.

 

[diggyduo]

Great, thanks for that. Looks like the bearings above and below the steering head are the same two from my manual, I'll try to source some over here. Not sure where I would get the washers on the outside of the roller bearings though - hopefully they will be okay.
The picture on the left (ball bearing) looks like the picture of the STs' setup, (there is another thread on this site with people having problems with those too) so I'm still not sure how the accessory shops lump all the models together unless they ball and roller kits are interchangeable (did the taper bearings come off your MH?)

Thanks for you help

 

[st2lemans]

what is an off-set bearing ?, i'd like to see it.

:think:

i only now of off-set tripples so far.

I'll take a picture tomorrow.

I've had a set on my LeMans that I got from Ghezzi and Brian in Italy back in '99 or so. The SS ones are similar.

Basically, the inner race is not centered in the outer race.

In the case of the LeMans, the upper is a centered, but not at a fixed angle, and the lower is offset. In the case of those I have for the SS, both are offset.

The LeMans needed a steering damper afterwards, but definitely quickened the steering. My SS has a damper set to 0, so it's just a question of swapping the bearings (maybe this weekend).

Tom

P.S. The SS bearings I got from Blade625CT, but he hasn't posted in a while.

 

[Muschi]

Looks like the bearings above and below the steering head are the same two from my manual

yes they are.

(did the taper bearings come off your MH?)

not sure, as the mh and the SS share the bearings,
i have some of them flying around...

LeMans...LeMans...LeMans...

puh - you are infected pretty badly, a hopeless
case i'd like to call it.



get yourself a copy of Motorrad Magazin MO,
Issue No. 6, Juni 2009, they have a great
Dynothek LeMans featured, in which he has
put some 34K or so euros.
you'll love it for sure.

 

[Muschi]

 

[diggyduo]

Thanks for clearing that up (I see two replies came through while I was constructing my second post - hate when that happens....)
This is the advert that caused the confusion - it insinuates they all take the same kit which didn't make sense from some of the other literature I had seen:


" Tapered Roller Bearing Steering Head Bearing Kit-
This kit updates the plain ball bearings with heavy duty taper bearing replacements. A must do with any suspension upgrade or tune. Helps eliminate head shake, provides better feel than OEM ball bearings and requires less maintenance than stock ball bearings. Kits come complete with both upper and lower taper bearing cups and cones and seals. Fits all Superbikes 94-current, all Monsters 2002-current and Monster S4, Supersport from '99-'07, S2R, S4R, S4RS from 2001 to present, all ST2/ST3/ST4, all Multistrada's, Hypermotard, all sport classics including Mh900e, and Streetfighter."

 

[st2lemans]

SpeedyMoto offers two types:

http://www.speedymoto.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=BR

(though I don't understand why the small SS bearings cost nearly TWICE what the SBK bearings cost!)

Tom

 

[diggyduo]

Hi Tom

Damn, that sucks alright, though maybe I can use this to convince the wife I'm saving money by upgrading to a 1198...

The speedymoto ad certainly makes the difference very clear.

Cheers for the all the helpful posts

 

[bradblack]

069191010 has been used since bevel drive days. 70240041A (did i get that right?) was introduced with the 916 chassis and then st then monsters when they used the st based chassis. in the alloy insert frames they never wear out, in the cheap 748 and st and monster chassis they can be rooted in 10,000km, often holding water which runs out onto the bench when you drop the lower triple because they're sealed.

to buy name bearing ones - skf, nsk, etc - ones via a bearing supplier out here is much more expensive than genuine parts. i get mine via a aftermarket bike parts supplier with retail being less than genuine, not massively tho. generally i use the tapered style to replace the 916 style, altho the outer cone does foul the seals slightly and cause them to drag a bit. not really a big issue as i see it.

 

[diggyduo]

The plot thickens
Is the SKF 639172 the same as the SKF 30205/26 (which is 26x52x16.25)? Seems only the later exists is NZ

 

[st2lemans]

Found this on another site:

Timken:
L44613 Outer race
L44645 Bearing

***:
509592A Outer race
509590A Bearing

SKF:
639172 Outer Race
639174 Bearing

Or a Fiat 500(original 60 and 70s one)/Fiat 126 rear wheel bearings.


Tom

 

[diggyduo]

Hi

Yeah, had found that post too - unfortunately none of our bearing shops stock any of the above - closest they had was the SKF one listed above. Looks like the difference between the SKF 30205 and the Timken product is that the SKF is 1.25 mm higher at 16.25 vs 15 for the Timken. Wouldn't have been overly worried as I'm guessing duc tolerances are much greater than that - but the original one measured earlier in this thread (with the picture) had the height at 12.5mm! Eeeekk

For pricing, the proposed SKF bearing is much cheaper than genuine over here (though still far from inexpensive!!)

 

[st2lemans]

As long as the ID and OD are OK, I don't see a problem. The height is done with the cap screw, so it should be OK.

Otherwise, Steve @ http://shop.bevelheaven.com/detail.aspx?ID=615 has them for USD 36 each or so.

Tom

 

[diggyduo]

Fantastic, wasn't sure if there was room for height adjustment or not.

Thanks again

 

[Muschi]

the complete SKF bearing, 639172 + 639174 stuck together,
is 15.5mm high.

 

[diggyduo]

Well, picked up my two special-order SKF 30205-26 bearings today after a long drive across the city, fairly confident but still with a little nagging doubt they may not fit.
"Here's your bearings sir" says the slightly sheepish looking shop keeper that has been trying to track down the special bearings over the last two weeks (I even sent through the picture on this thread for his ref)
"Thanks" I say, then leave for the dry confines of my cage feeling slightly suspicious. Better check the bearings before I leave I thought. Written on the outside of the bearings and box......639174! No idea why the different part no in NZ catalogues, but guess we'll both know for the future....

So again, thanks for all the replies, got there in the end (though forgot to get the [email protected]@dy seals.....)