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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all


I ride a 2017 MTS 1200 touring and was recently pushed into a guard rail. Bike took no damage but I took some. My riding style is sport touring, no off road but both short 1 day trips and long 5 day trips mostly in canyon style roads. I ride a bit aggressive - not track or insane but really like the big lean angels.

I had a choice to have a car hit me or to side swipe a guard rail on my right side. I chose the 2nd.

My current gear
SCHUBERTH C3 Pro
Knox Handroid Gloves
Dianese Drake Air D dry pants
Dianese Super speed textile jacket
Alpine Stars bionic armor shorts worn under pants
alpine Stars Toucan Gore-Tex boots


I am upgrading my gear to leather and am looking at this. Any feedback would be great

Same helmet
Dainese Tuono D Air jacket
Dainese Misano pants
Will keep using my bionic shorts
Keep same gloves
Dainese Axial D1 boots


The hard part of this is gear review for true protection.


My pants were shredded and my thigh would have been as well if it was not for the armor in the shorts. My right foot took a hit so I am am looking for the most protection in a boot as possible and the D1 is the only boot I can find with CE 2 rating.

All of the gear listed here looks to be CE level 2 but was looking for some opinions on this. It is weird I am wearing sport bike/track gear on a MTS? I can’t find any gear that is more protective then track style gear. Anyone have issues with the Dainese boots I listed wearing them for long rides? I don’t plan on walking a lot but they will be on my feet for 8-10 hours a day.



My list of importance is
1. Armor and protection
2. Comfortable -
3. Visibility


Here is a pic of my gear after the incident. You can see the deep scratches in my armor under the pants and the right boot was torn up. Only injury was sever strain, swelling and bruising on right foot. Nothing broken. I am not sure how fast I was going - my guess is about 40 MPH. Hit the rail and recovered a few seconds after impact

Thanks for any feedback- I will be back riding again in a few weeks
 

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Hi all
Anyone have issues with the Dainese boots I listed wearing them for long rides? I don’t plan on walking a lot but they will be on my feet for 8-10 hours a day.
Hope you're on the mend and congrats for wearing gear as it could have been a lot worse.
I have two pair of footwear: Sidi track boots and Sidi riding bootlets.
I've used the track boots many times for day trips but now that I will have a Multi, I'm looking for something in the middle of those two.
Notwithstanding, I have no problem wearing track boots with the Multi for day trip. Any ride longer however, may prove to be inconvenient.
 

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Lowsides have a high probability of cracking ribs, acromion, and clavicle. Add this to your kit but wear it as a back protector, which still covers the ribs:
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/forcefield-rib-protector-v2

Temperature permitting, nothing is more comfortable than a full perf race suit, which can be cheaper than a two piece. It's the only gear I own where the knees don't ride up. I wear mostly Dainese and the custom suit was worth the wait.

Check out Helimot in Fremont:
https://www.helimot.com/store/c2/Daytona_Boots.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Lowsides have a high probability of cracking ribs, acromion, and clavicle. Add this to your kit but wear it as a back protector, which still covers the ribs:
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/forcefield-rib-protector-v2

Temperature permitting, nothing is more comfortable than a full perf race suit, which can be cheaper than a two piece. It's the only gear I own where the knees don't ride up. I wear mostly Dainese and the custom suit was worth the wait.

Check out Helimot in Fremont:
https://www.helimot.com/store/c2/Daytona_Boots.html

I like rib protection - thank you! Can you wear this under the suit or armor jacket in addition to the built in back protection of the suit or jacket? If so will definitely add to my protection.
 

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A riding friend that was big into racing and now owns a Beemer GS, put it this way. Leather is worn at the track since we are going faster and we slide farther when we fall. Textiles can't take that. But on the road, the slide is shorter, but the stop can be more severe (hit something). Textiles are OK on the street and good padding is even more important. He inferred that we save weight on the gear with the textiles and can then afford the weight of enhanced padding.

It appears that your encounter with the guardrail is something not really expected, but it appears that the gear did what its supposed to.

I'm not really sure that leather is the direction we want to go in for street riding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A riding friend that was big into racing and now owns a Beemer GS, put it this way. Leather is worn at the track since we are going faster and we slide farther when we fall. Textiles can't take that. But on the road, the slide is shorter, but the stop can be more severe (hit something). Textiles are OK on the street and good padding is even more important. He inferred that we save weight on the gear with the textiles and can then afford the weight of enhanced padding.

It appears that your encounter with the guardrail is something not really expected, but it appears that the gear did what its supposed to.

I'm not really sure that leather is the direction we want to go in for street riding.
You are probably right. My boots and under armor kept me from much worse but the Gore-Tex shredded in less than a second. My motto is AGATT and that ride was just a 30 min cruse around my area.

I have a complete set of Klim Badlands pants and jacket but honestly don’t feel very safe in them. They don’t feel tight and even though I was sized it feels like the armor can move but with the leather the armor won’t move. I guess I can remove all of the armor and buy after market armor that attaches to your body and just use klim over that. The weight on that gear feels about the same, maybe a pound lighter than the leather.


Not sure now if it’s all psychological after this incident but I feel much safer in a 2.0 leather with CE2 armor.
 

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Dainese Axial D1 boots
I've had the older version of these Dainese boots since 2012 (the "in" version) and have crashed in them twice at the track (lowsides both times), both with no injuries and 60+ mph. I've only recently switched to A* Supertech Rs because the stitching started coming undone on the engine-side of my left boot and they aren't comfortable for long rides (8+ hours). The a* Supertech Rs don't fit inside my pants--a downside if you're trying to blend in off the bike--but they are far more comfortable and flow more air than the Dainese boot. Both the a* and Dainese boot have excellent ankle protection, both from impact and twisting. If you want to stick with the Dainese Axials, get some cushion-y insoles for those long rides you're doing.
 

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Back inserts blow

Can you wear this under the suit or armor jacket in addition to the built in back protection of the suit or jacket?
Are you talking about back inserts? I would not use them for several reasons. They shift and do not offer hyper-flexion protection. A lumbar brace offers more protection against injury than a jack insert. According to an Australian study back inserts increase injury risk. I have not seen a study showing back protectors preventing fractures, so do your best to reduce torsion.

Personally, I wear a lumbar brace and the rib protector over it, but reversed so it covers the spine and wraps forward across the ribs. This is my favorite non-track combo, and it is slimmer than a Dainese full back protector, so it can fit inside a proper jacket. You need a tight jacket to hold everything in place.

I also add hip protection if I'm not in a race suit: https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/klim-tactical-pants

If you need new gloves, these are the best I've found: Racer Gloves USA

And wear bright colors! Do not dress like Darth Vader, which increases accident risk by 30%.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks everyone for the responses. I decided on going with 2 sets of gear. I pulled the trigger on the Tuono D Air bag jacket, Misano pref leather pants and Dainese Axial D1 boots and rib protection . Had Dainese fit me for everything and verifying the rib armor will not interfere with the airbag jacket . I wore them in the store (Pants and boots for a little over an Hour). Boots are super comfortable with no pressure points. Boots feel like armor, flex at toe is great for shifting and breaking while the system had no lateral or medial movement for ankles with full armor from toe slider to heal in carbon fiber. Felt like they could take a lot of impact with transmitting the energy if I take a hit to the boot armor and not my feet.

Will also re-armor my Klim badlands pants and jacket with better fitted armor and a second set of adventure touring boots for the times I will go off road (not often).

Thanks again and safe riding to all!
 

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Are you talking about back inserts? I would not use them for several reasons. They shift and do not offer hyper-flexion protection. A lumbar brace offers more protection against injury than a jack insert. According to an Australian study back inserts increase injury risk. I have not seen a study showing back protectors preventing fractures, so do your best to reduce torsion.
This is misleading. Please be careful when putting scholarly articles into context without providing a free link to the entire article - this is exactly how misinformation gets spread. I would hate to see someone take your post as gospel and decide not to wear (even minimal) back protection, only to end up injured more. On a side note, this study is nearly a decade old, safety garment development has come a long way in that time so I'd be interested to see how the new gear holds up today compared to 2011.

I've attached the entire article for those wanting to read it. The findings for back protection in injury prevention on the area you're mentioning, Tables 3 and 4, are non-significant (Aussie for insignificant/p-value too low). Take a look at the confidence intervals, they are way too large for these data to be taken at face value. Moreover, the entire article emphasizes repeatedly the benefits of body armor and nowhere does it attribute causation of increased back injury to wearing a foam insert in a jacket. See p.1898, second paragraph:

"Small numbers may also explain the lack of effect for back armour. However, other research suggests that most motorcycle crash back injuries are caused by bending and torsional forces, not direct impacts to the spine (EU, 2003). The back sprain injuries in those wearing foam inserts may be due to such bending and twisting forces, butitis hard to explain why that group should be more at risk than motorcyclist without any protection. This certainly warrants further investigation in laboratory-based studies and future in-depth research."

Regarding your fractures comment, the article's results summary (first page) states "No association between use of body armour and risk of fracture injuries was detected." This is across the board for all armor, not just back protectors. Torsion is twisting, caused by rolling around during the accident. I don't think it's fair to recommend someone to reduce torsion in this scenario - the rider would need to be in something almost as a stiff as a cast to counteract those forces. Here is the in-depth discussion of fracture locations, of which back fractures are not mentioned, on p.1895:

"Table 2 shows the proportions of motorcyclists by types of injury and type of protection worn. The most common injuries were cuts, abrasions and bruises followed by sprains mostly to the upper torso. Fractures were less common and more likely to affect upper limbs. Hospital records showed a close correspondence with injury reports obtained at interview for those participants who attended hospital with 88% agreement on the number with long bone (legs and arms) fractures. There was less agreement in relation to small bone fractures with hospital records accounting for only 57% (n = 4/7) of the foot and ankle fractures and 39% (11/28) of the hand and wrist fractures that were reported at interview."
 

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Data is often misleading. My point was to wear proper armor. A jacket insert is practically useless, so why not wear full back armor. One issue is not having recent data from the U.S. on protective gear. I have not done an exhaustive search, but here is the latest info on spinal injury (source). I do have full database access if anyone wants a specific study.

According to Zulkipli et al. (2017), "While the use of protective jacket or back protector is gaining popularity elsewhere none of the patient in the study was found to use them [in Malaysia]. Although there is very limited information on the efficacy of back protectors against the spinal injuries, the back protectors may help lessen the direct blow to the back upon motorcyclist striking an object" (p. 125).

They also found "no significant differences in spinal injuries between helmeted and non-helmeted motorcyclists" (p. 123), but that does not mean one should not wear a helmet! One of the common injuries was "axial loading which can cause compression fractures if the motorcyclist falls from the motorcycle and onto their buttocks" (p. 123). A back protector does nothing to prevent that type of injury. Again, this does not mean one should not wear full protection. Wayne Rainey has been vocal for decades about back protectors using interlocking plates to reduce hyperextension of the spine. It is a mitigating device to limit impact force when hitting something solid and bending backward.

What is scary is that the avg. speed of sportbike accidents is 60mph. People who think they can slow in time, where armor has less effect, would be wrong. I learned the hard way from a lowside during my first year of riding. I momentarily drifted off a straight, hit the road edge at 30mph, and it was enough force to crack several ribs. The most common injury are to the ribs (source). The road grabbed my leathers and tossed me into two somersaults. I was wearing a Dainese back insert and discovered that it was useless. That rib injury was three months of misery. Since that day, I wear a lumbar brace under full back and rib armor. Air vests also look like a worthy investment. I recently had a 5mph collision with a cyclist, cracked my acromion, and had 60% mobility loss in my left arm. That was a two moths of misery. My Dainese full back/rib combo did nothing to prevent that injury, but a vest might have prevented considerable pain. Safe travels!
 
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