Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

41 - 60 of 130 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Discussion Starter #41
"When I tried to drain the fuel by turning the key on, it only trickled out of the M hose with the pump running fine. I had to siphon it. Is this an indicator, shouldn't it come out quicker?"

Absolutely should come out quicker, draining the whole full tank in less than a minute. Both the internal filter and sock are suspect, I bet the pump is fine.
That's what I thought!

Im stuck. I absolutely cannot get the carrier off. I swear it was super glued on. Ive tried for hours now. I don't know what to do at this point. Ive pulled up on it with so much force, its not right.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
Are you sure that you removed ALL of the grub screws? You could put a thin piece of wood against the interior rim of the carrier and hit lightly around the edge with a hammer. Don't use too much force.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,789 Posts
Mine was stuck on pretty good but I used a little plastic/nylon pry bar I got at the Home Depot paint department for prying off paint can lids. Its also a keychain. Its just thin enough to slide in there.

And yes, it sounds like you have to totally remove the little socket head screws if you have not already.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
There are 8 grub screws. If you don't have 8 of them sitting in your parts dish, look closer.

The green o-ring is all that holds it in after that. A good firm pull up on the carrier should move it right on out. If it doesn't move, you may have found your answer to why the tank is rusting inside.

Water can get past the weather seal, particularly if the weather seal has split. Many owners wash their bikes endlessly and with the bike on its side stand.

The result is soapy water getting in there causing the bung to rust, particularly on the down hill side. Once it begins to rust, it swells making it difficult to remove the cap carrier.

One thing you might try, is spraying a good rusty bolt loosening product around the edges of the carrier, under the weather seal. If you're stuck on what to use, give this stuff a try:

Available at Lowe's for about $8 a can. I've used it, and it actually does what it says it does. Good luck with it and let us know how it goes. ....sean
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,693 Posts
Yes once all the set screws are out a good coating of something to break down the corrosion on top of the o-ring may be needed.

I have had to pull,swear at, pry,swear at,rotate,swear at and use a puller on.

Most time they come right out but once in a while .....

I would use a dent puller screwed into one of the 5mm cap screw holes, it may take some force but it works. You do need to protect the tank to not damage paint but I have not chipped paint yet. If you try and lube things up first be aware some chemicals will soften and SWELL rubber o-rings so you could make things harder. The oem o-ring is a green Viton but we have no idea what is in there now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Discussion Starter #46
There are 8 grub screws. If you don't have 8 of them sitting in your parts dish, look closer.

The green o-ring is all that holds it in after that. A good firm pull up on the carrier should move it right on out. If it doesn't move, you may have found your answer to why the tank is rusting inside.

Water can get past the weather seal, particularly if the weather seal has split. Many owners wash their bikes endlessly and with the bike on its side stand.

The result is soapy water getting in there causing the bung to rust, particularly on the down hill side. Once it begins to rust, it swells making it difficult to remove the cap carrier.

One thing you might try, is spraying a good rusty bolt loosening product around the edges of the carrier, under the weather seal. If you're stuck on what to use, give this stuff a try:

Available at Lowe's for about $8 a can. I've used it, and it actually does what it says it does. Good luck with it and let us know how it goes. ....sean
Thanks sean, Ill grab that stuff next. Yeah the tank in the lower part has barnacles everywhere and doesn't look good. The upper part isn't bad.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Discussion Starter #47
Yes once all the set screws are out a good coating of something to break down the corrosion on top of the o-ring may be needed.

I have had to pull,swear at, pry,swear at,rotate,swear at and use a puller on.

Most time they come right out but once in a while .....

I would use a dent puller screwed into one of the 5mm cap screw holes, it may take some force but it works. You do need to protect the tank to not damage paint but I have not chipped paint yet. If you try and lube things up first be aware some chemicals will soften and SWELL rubber o-rings so you could make things harder. The oem o-ring is a green Viton but we have no idea what is in there now.
Wow a puller, I cant believe the tanks make it through that. It feels like it needs a puller. WD-40 sprays out everywhere when I spray into the grub holes which gives me hope.

Thanks again guys!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
Does Ducati make tanks for old bikes anymore? Ill keep trying. What kind of dent puller? Slide hammer style with a 5mm bolt adaptor?

Im super confused if this isn't metal on metal how can a gasket and O ring make this cemented in like it is?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
Does Ducati make tanks for old bikes anymore? Ill keep trying. What kind of dent puller? Slide hammer style with a 5mm bolt adaptor?

Im super confused if this isn't metal on metal how can a gasket and O ring make this cemented in like it is?
Steel rusts. Rust expands. Aluminum oxidizes. Oxidation also expands. Water with alkali soap, like dish soap will accelerate the process much the same as if you'd just poured acid on it.

20 years of that, and it isn't hard to imagine how bad it could be in the space between the bung and the cap carrier. As clean as my tank is inside, the area above the viton o-ring was rusty and discolored. That's on the bung itself. The carrier had some oxidation on it too but luckily not a great deal.

I couldn't prove it, but I don't think my particular bike was washed often if at all. Also, you'll want to lubricate the new o-ring when install it. That will make future removal for filter sock replacement or fuel line replacement easy. Silicone grease is perfect for that.

Another scenario just popped into my head....if that thing leaked before, a previous owner might have attempted to seal the cap carrier with silicone. That could be bad, and also possibly why you're having such a difficult time with removal.....sean
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,015 Posts
Does Ducati make tanks for old bikes anymore?
Good luck with that!! I've seen just a couple up for sale in the last year. One on this forum from member @FredSmoot and one on eBay that was damaged and was still being sold for over $200. ....sean
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Discussion Starter #51
Steel rusts. Rust expands. Aluminum oxidizes. Oxidation also expands. Water with alkali soap, like dish soap will accelerate the process much the same as if you'd just poured acid on it.

20 years of that, and it isn't hard to imagine how bad it could be in the space between the bung and the cap carrier. As clean as my tank is inside, the area above the viton o-ring was rusty and discolored. That's on the bung itself. The carrier had some oxidation on it too but luckily not a great deal.

I couldn't prove it, but I don't think my particular bike was washed often if at all. Also, you'll want to lubricate the new o-ring when install it. That will make future removal for filter sock replacement or fuel line replacement easy. Silicone grease is perfect for that.

Another scenario just popped into my head....if that thing leaked before, a previous owner might have attempted to seal the cap carrier with silicone. That could be bad, and also possibly why you're having such a difficult time with removal.....sean
What sucks is my tank on the outside is nearly pristine, like the bike. No chips or anything. The insides are a different story. The thought of trying to pry it out sounds like an instant chip on the tank.

I wish I had left a grub screw in by mistake, that would solve everything.

This thing feels like its welded on. WD-40 is flying out of all the holes and filling the outside edge of the carrier, yet it wont budge. I feel like sticking a small wire in the grub holes and digging it out.

So the grub screws push on the gasket and the o ring under it presses the carrier in?

After taping off the tank, I took a thin sharp skewer around the outside edge and it just feels like metal on metal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
385 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,693 Posts
As mentioned the fact the bike has not had the cap base out for so long is probably most of the issue. trust me the next time will be much easier because you are going through this now. The puller I use is a slide hammer with 5mm adapter, it can take quite a hard hit and yes you should worry so that you protect the paint the beat you can. Start by building up a tape layer on the top painted surface.

Keep in mind do not rush anything but in the end it will take some thinking and some force do not use one without the other.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
385 Posts
As mentioned the fact the bike has not had the cap base out for so long is probably most of the issue. trust me the next time will be much easier because you are going through this now. The puller I use is a slide hammer with 5mm adapter, it can take quite a hard hit and yes you should worry so that you protect the paint the beat you can. Start by building up a tape layer on the top painted surface.

Keep in mind do not rush anything but in the end it will take some thinking and some force do not use one without the other.
I think ducvet is right here and I can't help but wonder also if a little heat would be your friend. But of course you're working around gas, so what to use? A day out in the sun would undoubtedly help and, if you clean out the tank, a heat gun - but the latter is still potentially dangerous with any fumes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Discussion Starter #55

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Discussion Starter #56
I think ducvet is right here and I can't help but wonder also if a little heat would be your friend. But of course you're working around gas, so what to use? A day out in the sun would undoubtedly help and, if you clean out the tank, a heat gun - but the latter is still potentially dangerous with any fumes.
I know, I was thinking a small torch...then I remembered. Its supposed to be in the 80s today, Ill let her sit out in the sun as Im spending my day pulling on something that wont budge!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Discussion Starter #57
As mentioned the fact the bike has not had the cap base out for so long is probably most of the issue. trust me the next time will be much easier because you are going through this now. The puller I use is a slide hammer with 5mm adapter, it can take quite a hard hit and yes you should worry so that you protect the paint the beat you can. Start by building up a tape layer on the top painted surface.

Keep in mind do not rush anything but in the end it will take some thinking and some force do not use one without the other.

Besides being a musician and a helicopter painter, I was also a jeweler for a few years...Ive tried all the tricks and used much patience to this point. I like your positive attitude. I can only hope for a day where I get to fix this and it will be easier next time. I think I dreamed I got it off even.

If I cant get it, should I take it to Ducati? I wish I lived near you Ducvet.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,693 Posts
If I cant get it, should I take it to Ducati? I wish I lived near you Ducvet.

Lol, Not sure I am sorry you are not local given the troubles. Yes I often get the projects with good chance of bad things happening.

I do not know if a Ducati dealer will be any better unless they are experienced with the older bikes. You need someone who is simply used to removing this part and knows what gems old bikes can be. It will come out it is a matter of the right method. If you have it lubed up and it wont come up see if it will at least rotate. Try and get the flange to turn in the o-ring which may break some corrosion free, if it will turn try and work some lube in and then try up again. It needs exercise and then it will come out.

Have you removed the outer black gasket yet?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,789 Posts
The grub screws contact the tank directly, they come through just below the black gasket. So the thin black gasket you see around the edge is much larger than it appears and goes down to where the grub screws are. The cross section is an upside down "L" shape. If you are willing to order another one, I suggest you carefully try to peel it out of there. With dental picks or similar, you might be able to dig deep enough to get to the bottom of it to begin working it out. You might have to slice it with a small Xacto blade. Small needle nose pliers to grip it until you can get your fingers on it. It was not made to come out this way so be patient.

If you can expose all the metal pieces by getting that gasket out you will have a better idea of what type of release liquid you need to use. If it rust, penetrating spray. If it has been siliconed in, a couple of things might work since you probably still won't be able to get directly at most of it. Try scraping it out, but consider using something like this, or acetone.

https://www.amazon.com/Unibond-1584200-Silicone-Sealant-Remover/dp/B006FTEU10

I am beginning to wonder if there is a green o-ring in there at all, and instead someone caulked it in there,...

Good luck with the slide hammer if you go that route; while it is easy to dent the tank inwards, it is pretty strong at resisting expansion by pulling up on it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
798 Posts
There is a slot or lip machined into a fitting in the tank opening. The grub screws fit into that to keep the carrier from lifting. There is no mechanical pressure on the green Viton o-ring other than the pressure of it squeezing between the cap carrier and the fitting in the tank opening. The black gasket around the top just keeps debris and fluids out of the carrier interface. You might try putting the screws partially back into the carrier or otherwise blocking the holes and then introducing fuel or a rust solvent under the black gasket into the interface. Make sure the solvent is paint friendly. Leave it overnight, then remove the screws and try again. When I put mine back together I used petroleum jelly around the o-ring and the fitting. Make sure you source the correct Viton o-ring as it is impervious to fuel. Rubber or other material can swell and make removing the carrier difficult.
 
41 - 60 of 130 Posts
Top