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Front end issue + no brakes = ?

3K views 26 replies 10 participants last post by  d3vi@nt 
#1 ·
Couple times over the last few weeks I've hit a good bump at low speeds, followed immediately by front end shuddering/shaking, typically followed by loss of front brakes as lever travels to the bar and does nothing.

The front end shudder is nothing like a loose bearings or headstock, more like the suspension freaking out. The brake returns after the second pull, but can be unnerving. Fortunately, my rear brake works just fine.

No error lights, totally inconsistent and suspension and brakes operate normally otherwise at speed, over speedbumps, etc. Any thoughts, or anyone experience similar?

Longer story; went to my local Duc dealer to see about service history on my fuel sensor, since it's starting to go. They're no longer doing warranty work, can't see any history and would not confirm they were dumping the brand. Next closest is 60+miles away. In my travels, I realized my clutch is going again --it needs to be bled every 250-300 miles and is apparently now due, making traffic a bit of a challenge. Then suspension freakout and no brakes entering parking lot to get groceries on the way home. Topped off with keyless fob issues due to apparent surrounding interference.

I gotta say I'm beginning to lose a little love for the brand. Appreciate any help on the suspension/brake issues.
 
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#3 ·
A couple of dealerships i know of have dropped the brand too, i understand now that having the dealership you're forced to get the amount of bikes the brand want you to get, no more only get what you think you'll be able to sell for the year.
You're right about losing love toward the brand.
 
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#4 ·
Start with tire pressureand walk up inch by inch, also you should not need to bleed the brakes that often, never had to do mine so maybe a bad bleeder? air bubble cought up top in the master? enough fluid? did you try bleed the master from the top instead of the calipers?
Doesn't sound like a major issue to solve by process of elimination.
Good luck!
 
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#7 ·
I'm starting to lean this direction based on circumstances and the feeling it's more electronic induced than just something loose mechanically.

Seems to occur randomly at low speeds and on rough bumps when slowing and under 10 mph, like entering my driveway. I haven't hit any bumps large enough to induce wheel hop, though. Braking is fine/normal otherwise. The lever doesn't pulse, but just goes limp and all the way to the grip, then returns to normal once the incident has passed. I'll check dampening/rebound, but I haven't touched those --I'm in Touring mode pretty much 100%
 
#6 ·
Thanks, all for the replies and suggestions.

@Stillrollinalong -I agree. Axle was the first thing I checked. I'm going to go grab my manual and go back over all the torque settings and check calipers, rotors, etc.

@LaRossa -agreed. The clutch is the one I need to bleed frequently. After searching the forums, seems to be a pretty common issue. I replaced the slave with no luck and disassembled the master, cleaned and reassembled with new crush washers, etc. Still no luck. I just bleed from the master and I'm good for another 300 miles max before I have to bleed from the MC again. I will bleed the front brakes again after I'm done going through everything. It only happens randomly and occasionally, so very puzzling.
 
#8 ·
I'd suggest next time you bleed the clutch do a reverse bleeding or flush, it pushes up any air trapped anywhere, what you have to go through is not right on a $20+k bike.
 
#10 ·
Thankfully my bikes are well and truly out of warranty so i only need to step into a dealership to buy parts.....

Typically speaking dealers are screwed down by the brand they represent, especially when it comes to warranty work and that leads to short cuts and often, pretty average work by under skilled, underpaid disinterested staff.

Find a decent independent mechanic, they typically do much better work, provide better service and care more because their livelihood depends on your satisfaction with their work not the sale of a new bike and 50 t-shirts.

Your clutch should not need bleeding, period. It's a sealed system so if you're having to revisit it there's two likely issues, you're getting air in the system, possibly via a bleed nipple, not likely as there will also be fluid coming out.... Or not all the air is bled out and it gradually finds it's way to the highest point on the M/cyl causing your issues, this is MUCH more likely.
Does your multi have the reservoirs that are bolted directly to the master cylinder? If so there's a 7mm bolt head inside the reservoir which bleeds the master, i overfill mine and turn the bars then carefully and slowly squeeze the lever, crack the nipple and i'll guarantee air will come out. Once you have done that zip tie the lever overnight and repeat the process next morning, you will likely get a little more out and then hopefully a very firm clutch lever that doesn't need attention until you get the fluid flushed.
Note that a lot of techs use a vacuum tool to bleed but good ones always finish it off by hand doing what i described, dealers are typically not doing that from my experience.

The brake knock off is interesting, usually an issue with full floating rotors and tank slappers, I haven't had the issue in a long time but reaching for the brake and getting nothing is very unnerving, i have no answer, it shouldn't happen with std brakes.
 
#13 ·
Thanks for the info.

I have a good independent shop 50 miles from me. I usually just rely on the dealer for service history, recall info/work, and parts (if I'm in a pinch and they're in stock). Otherwise I've been pretty unimpressed with the dealer and won't miss them, just bummed that Ducati is pulling out.

As far as the clutch, the reservoirs are remote, not bolted direct. I'm leaning towards the MC being the issue. I use a vacuum bleeder and flush my ST2 and MTS annually --never a problem with the ST2, nor the front or even rear brake on the MTS, just the clutch. I've tried turning the bars, leaning the bike, zip ties, etc. Replaced crush washers with new and just now teflon taped the MC bleed nipple, though there were no signs of leaking.

I'll give it another go with your specific method and see what happens.

I also have a reverse bleeder I may try, but it seems less reliable.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Well, I'm pretty sure I found the issue:
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986342


Seems the top caliper pin didn't make it into the hole on the inboard pad. You can see where the pistons were pressing on the top pad and also the gnarly groove on the flip side. Oddly, it didn't affect braking other than these few instances. Probably escaped a minor catastrophe.
 
#15 ·
I had a failure of a seal in the clutch master cylinder on my 2011 Multi. I had similar symptoms. Fortunately for me, it happened under warranty so Ducati put a new MC on the bike. You might find a rebuild kit for the MC, but a used parts prices make it cheap enough to just replace the thing.
 
#16 ·
From several threads here, it seems a fairly common occurrence. I looked high and low for a rebuild kit with no luck, unfortunately. OPP Racing said Brembo is no longer making them available, which is a serious bummer.

The MC is nearly $400 USD from the dealers. Found a couple used close to $200, but no idea how many miles on them so may just be buying the same problem. I'll keep an eye out, though. Used is still probably the best option, as you said.
 
#17 ·
Here is one for $124. You can also look for other model MCs. I sure wouldn’t buy from dealer. You can have a much nicer than stock brand new one for much less than $400.
 
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#20 ·
Did a bunch of searching just now. Mostly just confirmed that a large number of folks are/were having the same issues with clutch going after 300-400 miles. Some had their MC's replaced under warranty.

I typically have to bleed mine every weekend during the summer riding months. No way that much air is getting trapped, it has to be getting introduced.

I couldn't find any threads on KTM parts. I know I came across one somewhere that identified the MC dust seal that was compatible with the MTS. Same part but about half the price from the KTM dealer, versus Ducati.

But... if Brembo isn't releasing rebuild kits anymore I don't know if it would be any easier to find one for KTM.

Anyone know of a parts cross-reference list for KTM and Ducati?
 
#25 ·
Just following up on the clutch MC; Bevel Heaven replied quickly and stated the same as OPP:

"Thats a radial pump and not a rebuildable item as Brembo will not sell the parts to do so. They are no longer producing the units either."

I may have to start hoarding used MC's.
 
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