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Discussion Starter #1
Just a thought..

before the streetfighter I had (briefly) a hypermotard.

In the quest for power I went though the following upgrades

1st slip on termignoni end cans
2nd full termignoni system
3rd ducati performance race cam kit

each time the new kit came with a new ECU. The hypermotard also runs REALLY lean at low revs so much so that they stall as you slow down for traffic lights etc.

the 1st kit with the cans and and ECU corrected the stalling and smoothed the bike out below 4k.

the 2nd kit with the full pipes and another ECU was much stronger low down and even smelt a little bit richer.

the 3rd kit with the cams and another ECU was again much richer, you could really smell the bike running a bit rich at low revs.

Im wondering if the great results people are having (with regard to the flat spot) on the streetfighter after fitting the full exhaust kit are really just down to that specific kit's ECU adding the much needed extra fueling ?

I have checked and you can actually buy that ECU without the pipes, perhaps thats one answer ? Im not sure if it would kill the cats though ?
 

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Trackday Junkie
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You do NOT want that race ecu without some type of slip-ons or full system. That ecu with the stock mufflers *will* burn up the cats, as well as make the bike run worse than stock. With the cats, the fuel has to be leaned out for the restriction as well as EPA guidelines.

What I did find, overall, is not matter what ecu you get, slip-ons or full system, you're still going to need a piggy back ecu (PC V or USB) or stand alone (Nemesis) to really get the fueling just right.

The DP ECU 'opens up' the closed loop system, adds fuel in the midrange & top to get fueling in the ball park, and adds timing.
 

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Trackday Junkie
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I understand the DP ECU for SF is still a close loop....

Is that correct?

Well, okay.

Tmk, it may still be technically a closed loop. But with the dp ecu, it disconnects a couple of things to allow you to tune in those area's that you couldn't before. You can still get a PC V and tune the idle-4.5k range with a dp ecu installed.
 

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All closed loop means is that it factors in the O2 sensors. The ECU can still apply any number of modifiers to the fuel calculation to make it run richer/leaner. Closed loop is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact it's often a good thing, but it does make things more complicated - which is why a lot of tuners get rid of it.
 

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..... But with the dp ecu, it disconnects a couple of things to allow you to tune in those area's that you couldn't before. You can still get a PC V and tune the idle-4.5k range with a dp ecu installed.
I was under impression you cannot do custom tuning with either stock or DP ECU, those are preset maps.

That's why I am interested in what kel3at and others were doing with Protune, by making an open loop system, removing O2 sensors from ECU map, and then piggyback PC V for custom tuning, truly eliminating the lean fueling at low RPM.

Do I understand this correctly?
 

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Trackday Junkie
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I was under impression you cannot do custom tuning with either stock or DP ECU, those are preset maps.

That's why I am interested in what kel3at and others were doing with Protune, by making an open loop system, removing O2 sensors from ECU map, and then piggyback PC V for custom tuning, truly eliminating the lean fueling at low RPM.

Do I understand this correctly?
I'll triple check with PC and GP (dealer) about the Streetfighters, but all the sportbike Ducati's and SF's are closed loop *until* you get a DP ecu. Unless the SF has something special and completely un-alterable, that is unlike every other Ducati, it should still be able do the same tuning with a PC V in that area just like I did with my bike.

But it wouldn't make any sense for the SF to be closed loop no-matter-what even with the dp ecu, when everything else....for lack of a better phrase...becomes 'open loop' with the dp ecu.

I'm confirm tomorrow.
 

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Even with the DP ECU it remains a closed loop system and you cannot adjust the fueling. And it still looks at the O2 sensors, if you try to bypass them it throws errors. It all has to do with the Euro 3 emissions. You can however, replace the ECU as I just did with a Nemesis BUT you will lose DTC. Still have a little tweaking to do but all my fueling issues are gone! Plus a gain of 11 hp and 8 ft-lbs of torque. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It would be interesting to try for example a bike with the termi slip ons and the full exhaust system ECU though.

Im just looking for ways to sort the bike out without spending a lot more money. I may get the full system ECU and do a Blackie special on the standard pipes.

what happens if you burn the cats out anyway ?
 

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It would be interesting to try for example a bike with the termi slip ons and the full exhaust system ECU though.

Im just looking for ways to sort the bike out without spending a lot more money. I may get the full system ECU and do a Blackie special on the standard pipes.

what happens if you burn the cats out anyway ?
You help worsen the hole in the ozone!
 

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now correct me if i am wrong i have not delt with ducatis system but i have delt with the pc and Hd SERT and TTS system.
now if you remove the o2 sensors and tune the bike and create a custom map the bike should throw no codes as the bike is basically tuned. corrrect.
now about the ducati system. can you dyno tune the bike and create a custom map for uit utalizing the o2 sensors ??
i know when we tune with the harley system we turn the o2 sensors off then create a custom map and once the map is created we switch them back on as the sensors work in a very limited range on the harleys.
G
 

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Trackday Junkie
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Okay, after talking to 2 dealers and power commander, this is what I've found (and, as I thought):

The DP ECU *turns off* the closed loop system. The closed loop system is still connected, still on the bike, but it's turned off witht the DP ECU, as that over-rides the signal coming back to the ECU. Same thing as the 848/1098/1198 bikes.

The reason why we're still having this discussion, is that the SF is very new, and nobody has bought a PC V for one yet. If you have a SF and you're in SoCal, I can get you in touch with best tuner out here in the west. Now, if you're far away or at altitude and don't know of a good tuner, than go ahead and pick up the AutoTune option (which allows your bike to be automatically tuned and maped as you ride).

Also, power commander is based out of Las Vegas, so if you're around there, go down to the shop and give them a visit.
 

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Mospeada, this is good news!

Okay, after talking to 2 dealers and power commander, this is what I've found (and, as I thought):

The DP ECU *turns off* the closed loop system. The closed loop system is still connected, still on the bike, but it's turned off witht the DP ECU, as that over-rides the signal coming back to the ECU. Same thing as the 848/1098/1198 bikes.

The reason why we're still having this discussion, is that the SF is very new, and nobody has bought a PC V for one yet. If you have a SF and you're in SoCal, I can get you in touch with best tuner out here in the west. Now, if you're far away or at altitude and don't know of a good tuner, than go ahead and pick up the AutoTune option (which allows your bike to be automatically tuned and maped as you ride).

Also, power commander is based out of Las Vegas, so if you're around there, go down to the shop and give them a visit.
The full Termi system is on order and I'll piggyback a PCV to get the AFR just right.

I was under the impression that the Dynojet dyno did all the tuning, not the operator. A wide-band sniffer is inserted in the pipe and the dyno software instructs the operator to hold the bike at different throttle position openings and RPM's. A usb connection to the PCx is utilized to create a custom map. Is this correct? I assume the operator, upon viewing the AFR can further manipulate the custom map?

Please feel free to add your experience...
 

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Trackday Junkie
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The full Termi system is on order and I'll piggyback a PCV to get the AFR just right.

I was under the impression that the Dynojet dyno did all the tuning, not the operator. A wide-band sniffer is inserted in the pipe and the dyno software instructs the operator to hold the bike at different throttle position openings and RPM's. A usb connection to the PCx is utilized to create a custom map. Is this correct? I assume the operator, upon viewing the AFR can further manipulate the custom map?

Please feel free to add your experience...

Right. It *used* to be that the operator would make a run on your bike, look at the a/f ratio, then 'play' with the excel-spreadsheet-like boxes and add numbers or subtract them as they see fit.

NOW, it is as you describe above. The software tells the operator to hold at a certain throttle %, and the computer calculates to get the map in line, usually to 13.1:1 a/f ratio.

But the same program that Louie from L&L Motorsports has on his dyno, is *IN* the new Power Commander V! All you gotta do, is option for the Autotune, and the PC V will do the rest! If you have a shop tune it for you, make sure it's a reputable shop, and *make sure* that you get to see our a/f ratio's on the dyno print out.

Price
 

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Thanks for the additional legwork, Mospeada. As I have said several times in different threads, the DP race ECU has to turn off utilization of the lambda sensor data. There's no reason for it to run closed loop, because there is no catalytic converter anymore in the carbon slipons or the carbon full system, and running closed loop at low loads and low RPM limits engine performance and drivability. I really appreciate your clarifying this with Dynojet and the dealers.
 

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Right. It *used* to be that the operator would make a run on your bike, look at the a/f ratio, then 'play' with the excel-spreadsheet-like boxes and add numbers or subtract them as they see fit.

NOW, it is as you describe above. The software tells the operator to hold at a certain throttle %, and the computer calculates to get the map in line, usually to 13.1:1 a/f ratio.

But the same program that Louie from L&L Motorsports has on his dyno, is *IN* the new Power Commander V! All you gotta do, is option for the Autotune, and the PC V will do the rest! If you have a shop tune it for you, make sure it's a reputable shop, and *make sure* that you get to see our a/f ratio's on the dyno print out.

Price

Can proper tuning be done with a PCIII USB and a "custom" map or do I have to have the PCV? When I ordered my Termi slip-ons, I ordered a Power Commander with it. I assumed my dealership was ordering the PCV since the Power Commander site spec'd the PCV for the Streetfighter. They installed the PCIII and did a custom map.

I was one of the lucky ones to have a stock SF without the hesitation @ 3500 rpm, or at least I didn't notice it. Now with the slip-ons, DP ecu, and PCIII USB, I've got the dreaded, very noticable 3500 rpm stumble. The bike's rideable, I just upshift to put it @ 3000 rpm and it's golden or cruise @ 4k and it's good too. The dyno sheet shows the AFR drop below 10 at 3500 rpm, it's a steadyish 13-14 everywhere else. I do have a 14T front sprocket.

I didn't like the fact that my shop didn't do a baseline dyno run to compare, nor do I like that my bike is only making 135 hp at the wheels according to the dyno sheet.....
 

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Trackday Junkie
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Can proper tuning be done with a PCIII USB and a "custom" map or do I have to have the PCV? When I ordered my Termi slip-ons, I ordered a Power Commander with it. I assumed my dealership was ordering the PCV since the Power Commander site spec'd the PCV for the Streetfighter. They installed the PCIII and did a custom map.

I was one of the lucky ones to have a stock SF without the hesitation @ 3500 rpm, or at least I didn't notice it. Now with the slip-ons, DP ecu, and PCIII USB, I've got the dreaded, very noticable 3500 rpm stumble. The bike's rideable, I just upshift to put it @ 3000 rpm and it's golden or cruise @ 4k and it's good too. The dyno sheet shows the AFR drop below 10 at 3500 rpm, it's a steadyish 13-14 everywhere else. I do have a 14T front sprocket.

I didn't like the fact that my shop didn't do a baseline dyno run to compare, nor do I like that my bike is only making 135 hp at the wheels according to the dyno sheet.....

Considering that an SF is essentially a 1098, then yes, a USB (PC III) should be able to work. However, did you have the shop do a custom map? Or just an install? If just an install, the PC's often do not come with maps. So they are zero'd out.

But, you can also get a general map, that should hopefully help out, at powercommander.com. In fact, look under 1098, Termignoni slip-ons, DP ecu, and down load that map into your bike via the usb cable and pc software on your computer. This should help. *However*.....

If you notice on the new map that there are no numbers in the boxes for idle-4500 rpm and up to 20% throttle, then that's why you are getting a stumble. You may have a partial map that help up in the midrange and the top end.

If it's dipping below 10 at 3500 rpm, you are RICH, not lean! You may just want to get in there and back down the numbers some and see what it feels like.
 

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I was one of the lucky ones to have a stock SF without the hesitation @ 3500 rpm, or at least I didn't notice it. Now with the slip-ons, DP ecu, and PCIII USB, I've got the dreaded, very noticable 3500 rpm stumble. The bike's rideable, I just upshift to put it @ 3000 rpm and it's golden or cruise @ 4k and it's good too. The dyno sheet shows the AFR drop below 10 at 3500 rpm, it's a steadyish 13-14 everywhere else. I do have a 14T front sprocket.

I didn't like the fact that my shop didn't do a baseline dyno run to compare, nor do I like that my bike is only making 135 hp at the wheels according to the dyno sheet.....
Plain and simple your tune job is a bad one... I'd take it back or have it tuned by someone competent.

The other possibility is that the PC3 is doing nothing during closed loop operation.

BTW upshifting to run your bike at 3000 isn't doing it any favors...
 

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Thanks Mospeada!

Right. It *used* to be that the operator would make a run on your bike, look at the a/f ratio, then 'play' with the excel-spreadsheet-like boxes and add numbers or subtract them as they see fit.

NOW, it is as you describe above. The software tells the operator to hold at a certain throttle %, and the computer calculates to get the map in line, usually to 13.1:1 a/f ratio.

But the same program that Louie from L&L Motorsports has on his dyno, is *IN* the new Power Commander V! All you gotta do, is option for the Autotune, and the PC V will do the rest! If you have a shop tune it for you, make sure it's a reputable shop, and *make sure* that you get to see our a/f ratio's on the dyno print out.

Price
For all the footwork :) I picked my full system up tonight... I contacted a Dynojet tuning center (the only one in my area) and I am going to have my completely stock SFs run on the dyno to obtain a baseline this weekend. I'm looking forward to seeing HP, torque, and AFR. I plan on running another dyno session with the full system with and w/o the DB killers, then a final tune/dyno with a PCV. All of which I'll post here...

Thanks again.
 
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