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Discussion Starter #1
Today was the perfect day, 200 miles, twisties, best weather yet.

Until me and a buddy got pulled over...:mad:

We were both only 10-15 over, that's not real important.

Any advice on taking a ticket to court, and getting it dismissed?

Do's, Don'ts, Anything that I can use to my advantage?

Thanks
Hibbz
 

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Today was the perfect day, 200 miles, twisties, best weather yet.

Until me and a buddy got pulled over...:mad:

We were both only 10-15 over, that's not real important.

Any advice on taking a ticket to court, and getting it dismissed?

Do's, Don'ts, Anything that I can use to my advantage?

Thanks
Hibbz
Well if your record is "clean" to this point aks that the citation be amended to a "non point" violation. Usually it's 5mph over the posted speed. This will reduce your fine and points if your state has a point system w/ regard to your drivers license. Even if you can't accomplish this a the local level, you can ask for a "trial deNovo" or "New Trial" at the county level. They are so sacked w/ hearings usually they will agree to an amended citation just to resolve the case. Give it a try, better to do it this way then attack the Officer's integrity and speed timing equipment.:)
 

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I don't know what the laws are in your area, but you might also have the option of a diversion. Typically you pay a larger fine, but it isn't sent on to the state (and thus does not appear on your record) if you meet certain conditions. For instance, I got a ticket in my car. I'm on a diversion right now and if I do not break any laws for the six months of my diversion, it is wiped from my slate. However, if I do, then that ticket goes on my record and I don't get a refund for the extra money I paid ($100 in this case) for my diversion. The availability of diversions and their conditions vary by county here so you have to contact the AG for the county in question to discover your options (or their website). The county I sped in is pretty strict and I have to send in a document stating any encounters with law enforcement each month. If I don't submit it by their deadline each month, I also forfeit my diversion and effectively plead guilty (a condition of the agreement) to the speeding citation.
 

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Do a search on Trial by affidavit or Trial by declaration (TBD)
Depending on the state your in this will give you the opprotunity to write in your defence as well as the LEO that wrote the ticket will have the opportunity do the same.
99.9% of the time the LEO will not write in as they do not get paid extra to do so whereas they do get paid extra to go to court.
The trick is to wait til the very last minute to file the TBD and request for documents from the court for the TBD. This will increase the time which helps. You will be given more time then to fill out and file the TBD documents. By the time the TBD due date arrives it may be over 6 months or more. You file the document and pay the fine.
The LEO that wrote the ticket will then be requested to file his version.
By that time he has written thousands of tickets and has to try and remember the violation. Hence it is easier for him to place priority on a case that is going to court then to "write in" a incident he can not remember.
There is a good chance he will let it go and the case is dismissed and you get your fine back.

I have beaten 3 out of 3 tickets with this approach.
never went to court never left the house all ddone through the mail and the LA court internet site.

if in the event the LEO does file you will then have the opportunity to take it to court. By this time it will be well over 1 year and the LEO will not remember the incident. You simply ask if he remembers the incident and chances are he does not have his notes on this traffic stop.
You can also ask for traffic school at this time.
here is a link to a random TBD site
There are much more info on the web.

Good luck hope this info works for the area you are in
JC


Today was the perfect day, 200 miles, twisties, best weather yet.

Until me and a buddy got pulled over...:mad:

We were both only 10-15 over, that's not real important.

Any advice on taking a ticket to court, and getting it dismissed?

Do's, Don'ts, Anything that I can use to my advantage?

Thanks
Hibbz
 

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Joined
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Do a search on Trial by affidavit or Trial by declaration (TBD)
Depending on the state your in this will give you the opprotunity to write in your defence as well as the LEO that wrote the ticket will have the opportunity do the same.
99.9% of the time the LEO will not write in as they do not get paid extra to do so whereas they do get paid extra to go to court.
The trick is to wait til the very last minute to file the TBD and request for documents from the court for the TBD. This will increase the time which helps. You will be given more time then to fill out and file the TBD documents. By the time the TBD due date arrives it may be over 6 months or more. You file the document and pay the fine.
The LEO that wrote the ticket will then be requested to file his version.
By that time he has written thousands of tickets and has to try and remember the violation. Hence it is easier for him to place priority on a case that is going to court then to "write in" a incident he can not remember.
There is a good chance he will let it go and the case is dismissed and you get your fine back.

I have beaten 3 out of 3 tickets with this approach.
never went to court never left the house all ddone through the mail and the LA court internet site.

if in the event the LEO does file you will then have the opportunity to take it to court. By this time it will be well over 1 year and the LEO will not remember the incident. You simply ask if he remembers the incident and chances are he does not have his notes on this traffic stop.
You can also ask for traffic school at this time.
here is a link to a random TBD site
There are much more info on the web.

Good luck hope this info works for the area you are in
JC
This is insane! Only in LA.)...my cousins out there have never heard of such a thing?
 

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i would ask for an arraignment and get a date to talk to the D.A. They will almost always dismiss it with 90 days probation period. As long as you can go 90 days with out another moving violation it will never make to your record, which means no points at all on your record. They will still get some money out of you but it's usually less than the ticket. My last one was $110. The ticket would have been $165.

And there is always Driver's Ed. :D most courts offer to drop it off your record upon completion of Driver's Ed. Of course that's more painfull than just paying the fine and taking the hit on your record.

Good luck. I highly recomend the arraignment. If nothing else, you have nothing to lose. If you dont like the deal they offer you just go back to where you are now.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
thanks for all the help guys.
the reason I want to fight it is because I am under 18, and in MA that means basically my insurance will rise a noticeable amount...:mad:

It was kinda funny though, the cop kept complimenting our bikes, (1098s, 696), and I was surprised he wrote up the ticket. Then he told us he was working on a grant "click it or ticket," and that because of the holiday they were cracking down on speeders and drunks. Revenue cop much?
 

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Sorry you had such a rude awakening but cracking down on speeders means giving tickets to speeders. Yes, I do it too but if I get a ticket I can't blame the cop or the system. I will rightly blame the bike and plea a case of temporary insanity to the DA.

Seriously, look into a deferment option if it's available in your state, where you get it dropped after a year of no moving violations. And learn to accept responsibility for your own actions.
 

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It's a commonly overseen method of fighting a ticket
here is a link to more info

Here are the states that DO NOT ALLOW TBD's

States where trial by declaration is not allowed include:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, and Wisconsin.

JC

This is insane! Only in LA.)...my cousins out there have never heard of such a thing?
 

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I may be wrong but I tend to think that riding a Ducati or any other Fast European bike basically f___s you when it comes to tickets. Cops thinks: "rich sob". Not saying in all cases, but likely the majority of them.

For the record I run a Valentine One at all times...and it has been my saving grace. A must investment for anyone that enjoys the Sunday twistys.
 

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When I was in the [email protected]#ing-wealth-of Virginia, I got a reckless driving charge for going 81. It wasn't even my fault either. My Lightning didn't feel like observing the posted speed limit that...or any day before or since for that matter. Anyway, I took an online defensive driving course prior to going to court, and pleaded mercy from the judge. She dropped the ticket down to simple speeding, and gave me a $100 fine. Better than reckless driving points. And by the way, the fine officer who wrote the ticket had nothing better to do but show his ass up in court that day too :eek:
 

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[/url][/IMG] of course they were speeding thats why they got pulled over. I wasn't speeding until the cop looked in the back seat
Of course! Just saying....if you're speeding, just pay it. But I do understand the whole insurance bit. Maybe just goto driving school so you don't get the points.
 

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In the county i live in, almost any moving traffic violation will be dropped to a lesser charge and no points applied. But then again, they heard you in like cattle, give everyone in the room the same speech about being polite, do what the judge says and remind you that you have the right to get an attorney with the caviate of "if you get an attorney and lose, you will be fully prosecuted with no leaniancy" Needless to say my 63 in a 45 was dropped to a 59, payed the $150 (in the required cash) and went about my business along with the other 200 people that day. If it wasnt for the new multmillion dollar courthouse i would have thought i travelled back in time about 50 years. I guess the moral of this story is, it depends on where you live, what the agenda of the law in your area is and what level of risk you want to take when you walk into the courtroom. But most importantly, dont take the option of paying the ticket by mail....have your day in court. You are only out a few hours and it may be the difference between a fine, or a fine and points.
 

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Without a doubt, if Trial by Declaration is offered in your State, then by all means...try it. It will take 15mins of your time and a stamp to request the trial by written declaration.

What many sheeple fail to grasp is that if anywhere from 1%-3% of persons receiving a traffic INFRACTION requested by TBD, the courts would become so overwhelmed by the paperwork jam; the program (speed tax revenue) would come to a screeching halt and they would have to reconsider it's "merits". In other words, is the program worth continuing due to it's costs vs. revenue from fines collected.

Look at it this way...people will tell you to "Man Up" and pay it. That's what the government wants. Thats the way it was written up. They make it such an inconvenience that people just send in the "bail". Let me ask you this...do you consider a moving violation an infraction or a crime? While the state of Kalifornia considers it an infraction, it is pursued as a crime. Who, may I ask, is the victim in this so-called crime?

While the judges will nearly ALWAYS side with the "expert" (CHP in my case, two of them) I have them on written record admitting several things which were NOT true. Four of us were pulled over by a "sport-bike task force" whatever the F that is specifically targeting motorcycles. The group of four of us had JUST come up to speed (55) from a stop sign. We were scattered over about 300yards or so headed towards them. All four of us were written up for 70-something in a 55. The officers admitted, in court, that they had no idea what the order of motorcycles was, who was in the lead, admitted that we were spaced out over 1/4 mile, riding single file, no traffic, dry/clear conditions. How in the hell could we all have been going 74? Is it possible? Yes. Was it probable, no. By the time the first rider got lit up, the last rider behind me was just leaving the stop. There were several other factors I was able to trip the two of them up on...but ultimately the court ruled in favor of the CHP. Big surprise there. Seeing them sweat and lie was worth the price of admission.

I requested a TBD, submitted nothing more than something to the effect of, "not guilty", was ruled against, filed a Trial de Novo; was granted a new trial as required by law and then faced the turds in court. Lost.

Here's the way I see it. Make them work for it. Why is it in this country one can be charged with an INFRACTION, be forced to "post" bail (signing the ticket) AND have to prove your innocence rather than have the court prove your guilt on no other testimony/evidence than that of the "witness of the State" the cop shop.

The sheeple of this country have given up. What ever happened to the "Spirit of Resistance" we used to hold so dearly?

Try it if it's an option in your location.
 

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Well said
++ on dat!!

jc

Without a doubt, if Trial by Declaration is offered in your State, then by all means...try it. It will take 15mins of your time and a stamp to request the trial by written declaration.

What many sheeple fail to grasp is that if anywhere from 1%-3% of persons receiving a traffic INFRACTION requested by TBD, the courts would become so overwhelmed by the paperwork jam; the program (speed tax revenue) would come to a screeching halt and they would have to reconsider it's "merits". In other words, is the program worth continuing due to it's costs vs. revenue from fines collected.

Look at it this way...people will tell you to "Man Up" and pay it. That's what the government wants. Thats the way it was written up. They make it such an inconvenience that people just send in the "bail". Let me ask you this...do you consider a moving violation an infraction or a crime? While the state of Kalifornia considers it an infraction, it is pursued as a crime. Who, may I ask, is the victim in this so-called crime?

While the judges will nearly ALWAYS side with the "expert" (CHP in my case, two of them) I have them on written record admitting several things which were NOT true. Four of us were pulled over by a "sport-bike task force" whatever the F that is specifically targeting motorcycles. The group of four of us had JUST come up to speed (55) from a stop sign. We were scattered over about 300yards or so headed towards them. All four of us were written up for 70-something in a 55. The officers admitted, in court, that they had no idea what the order of motorcycles was, who was in the lead, admitted that we were spaced out over 1/4 mile, riding single file, no traffic, dry/clear conditions. How in the hell could we all have been going 74? Is it possible? Yes. Was it probable, no. By the time the first rider got lit up, the last rider behind me was just leaving the stop. There were several other factors I was able to trip the two of them up on...but ultimately the court ruled in favor of the CHP. Big surprise there. Seeing them sweat and lie was worth the price of admission.

I requested a TBD, submitted nothing more than something to the effect of, "not guilty", was ruled against, filed a Trial de Novo; was granted a new trial as required by law and then faced the turds in court. Lost.

Here's the way I see it. Make them work for it. Why is it in this country one can be charged with an INFRACTION, be forced to "post" bail (signing the ticket) AND have to prove your innocence rather than have the court prove your guilt on no other testimony/evidence than that of the "witness of the State" the cop shop.

The sheeple of this country have given up. What ever happened to the "Spirit of Resistance" we used to hold so dearly?

Try it if it's an option in your location.
 

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I'm a Deputy Sheriff and while I'm not sure what the exact penalty is in your area as far as points on your license, the legal process is usually pretty similar from state to state. As someone mentioned on the first page, you can ask to meet with the District Attorney or the States Attorney. This is sometimes called a Dispositional Conference (not to be confused with a Depositional Conference). This is an informal meeting where you sit down with the prosecutor and bargain over the outcome of the infraction. You can bring a lawyer (personally hired or public defender) but it is not always necessary, especially for smaller infractions. You can ask for this meeting prior to the court date on the ticket, or if the date is coming up too soon, you can plead not guilty. The next step should be another hearing scheduled some time in the future, but you will then have more time to get your dispo and come to an agreement with the prosecutor, who will cancel the next hearing and you will just plead guilty in accordance with your new agreement.

Dispositional work to ease the case load on the legal system. If everyone wanted to go through the process to get to a trial and no bargains were ever reached, the system would completely fail. Prosecutors are usually willing to work with you and if you can't reach an agreement, you will be no worse off. The judge will not know or be influence by the fact that you had a dispo and were unable reach an agreement. If you plead not guilty, get a court date for a trial in front of a judge (most states don't do jury trial on traffic offenses) go to a Dispo and can't work out a deal, you just come back to the clerk of courts and ask to schedule a change of plea hearing. Instead of a trial, you just plead guilty like normal and pay the fine.

Lot of rambling there but its a pretty simple process if you have a little time to invest in it.

And while I'm here, I'll give you my thoughts on radar detectors. I've pulled over many speeders who have one and the reason why is my radar is powered up all the time, but it does not transmit anything detectable until I see a car and push the button to select which antenna to use (front or rear, depending on if the car is coming to me from the front, rear or going away from me from the rear). When I push the button the beams go out at the speed of light, bounce off the car and I get a number on your speed in such a small fraction of second its immesureable by human senses. By the time you react to the radar detector and hit the brake, its too late. Action is always faster than reaction.

Now I've had people say "Well I only speed when there is someone in front of me so if they get clocked, my detector tells me to slow down before I get clocked too." This leads me to the second reason why a radar detector fails to assist a driver. The radar detector cannot decrease your stopping distance. Higher speed = longer stopping distance. In this County, as it is in many places, speed is the number 1 cause of crashes or is usually one of the main contributing factors for that reason. So when I write a speeding ticket (and I personally am pretty easy going on them) its not because I'm being jerk or am trying to fill a quota, its because I rather write a ticket than be investigating a crash or telling someones husband, wife, mom or date that their loved one was hurt/killed in a crash. I've done it too many times and it is the least favorite part of my job.
 

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It's too easy to go fast on a bike. Too easy.

Just remember that there is a possibility that the officer is carrying a recording device and/or writing down your statements in the ticket book. So, come time to contest, it will be easier to impeach your testimony under those circumstances.

The morale of the story? Be careful about what you state to a police officer under ALL circumstances.
 
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