[roadron]

i have a 98 fe. fcr 41s 15-39 gearing ridden mostly at 7000-8000 ft. when i bought this bike the plan was to convert over to injection. problem is my bike consistently gets 60+ mpg and the mid range is awesome, better than my 99ss. the 99 usually got around 45 mpg. the 99 was stronger on top.i am still jetted for 2000 ft but am loathe to touch anything she runs so well.but i wonder if she would run even stronger with better fuel mileage with the injection and stock carby cam.any thoughts?

 

[Stopwatch]

FCRs are highly tuneable and fuel injection isn't, in my opinion, a whole lot better than properly set up modern flatslides.

If I were in your shoes I'd skip the FI, have the carbs professionally dyno-tuned for your altitude and spend the rest of the cost of converting to FI on some nice lightweight wheels and a suspension upgrade/tune.

I remember a few months ago reading a thread in the sport classic forum about an owner who converted from FI to FCRs and gained horsepower and torque.

 

[rz33v4]

FCRs are highly tuneable and fuel injection isn't, in my opinion, a whole lot better than properly set up modern flatslides.

If I were in your shoes I'd skip the FI, have the carbs professionally dyno-tuned for your altitude and spend the rest of the cost of converting to FI on some nice lightweight wheels and a suspension upgrade/tune.

I remember a few months ago reading a thread in the sport classic forum about an owner who converted from FI to FCRs and gained horsepower and torque.

I'll take the opposite side of this argument. Jetting carbs is a pain in the butt versus setting up FI on a Power Commander, plus the FI will make more power every time. I think part of the reluctance in accepting FI is that it is something new; you haven't worked with it before, and it is connected to a look (SS '99 to '07) you don't care for.

 

[Joe-B]

Seems to me this is a non-issue until you jet the FCRs properly. I have FCR 41s, live at 6,000' and I can tell you that proper jetting will make a big difference in both power and fuel mileage! And it isn't that hard. Jet it!
Joe

 

[Stopwatch]

I'll take the opposite side of this argument. Jetting carbs is a pain in the butt versus setting up FI on a Power Commander, plus the FI will make more power every time. I think part of the reluctance in accepting FI is that it is something new; you haven't worked with it before, and it is connected to a look (SS '99 to '07) you don't care for.

Partially true...I have little experience with FI; I sold the only FI bike I ever owned several years ago and my Alfa Romeo and Bronco are carbureted as well. (At least our real car has EFI and airbags...)

But, I have no aversion to FI. In fact, more than once I've considered buying a post-98 Supersport, removing the tank pad and installing the short upper from Kamna. Living at sea level and also owning property at altitude certainly make clear one distinct advantage an FI system brings.

The fact that I don't personally care for the stock aesthetics of the 99-07 Supersports has nothing to do with an aversion to FI. My point was that properly set up FCRs are very close to FI in performance and don't require the constant attention badly tuned stock Mikunis can. Roadron already owns FCR 41's and, in my opinion, is better off improving his bike in other ways, mainly by the elimination of some road-hugging weight.

Now, where's that new Supersport thread?

 

[rz33v4]

Partially true...I have little experience with FI; I sold the only FI bike I ever owned several years ago and my Alfa Romeo and Bronco are carbureted as well. (At least our real car has EFI and airbags...)

But, I have no aversion to FI. In fact, more than once I've considered buying a post-98 Supersport, removing the tank pad and installing the short upper from Kamna. Living at sea level and also owning property at altitude certainly make clear one distinct advantage an FI system brings.

The fact that I don't personally care for the stock aesthetics of the 99-07 Supersports has nothing to do with an aversion to FI. My point was that properly set up FCRs are very close to FI in performance and don't require the constant attention badly tuned stock Mikunis can. Roadron already owns FCR 41's and, in my opinion, is better off improving his bike in other ways, mainly by the elimination of some road-hugging weight.

Now, where's that new Supersport thread?

Better than just removing the fuel tank "rubber ducky", which leaves an ugly depression in the tank surface, I replaced it with a carbon fiber ETI piece, which also saved 9.2#.

Yes, I'm all for a new SS and am one of the foremost supporters of the concept.

 

[roadron]

i am really impressed with the fcrs. with what may be the standard jetting i have been as high as 10500ft to as low as 4000 without a problem.

 

[sledgrehammer]

FCRs are highly tuneable and fuel injection isn't, in my opinion, a whole lot better than properly set up modern flatslides.

I would like to say BS. Weber Marelli ecu is very good if you update it with Tuneboy. (http://www.tuneboy.com.au/Products/Products.html), FIM or some other same kind of product. Carburators are from stoneage and i really can't find any reason to swap my injection system to FCR's.

With Tuneboy you can adjust fuel, ignition, idle ignition, barometric trim, offset map and much more and all it takes is to plug a wire from diagnostic port to laptop. With air/fuel meter it is very easy to see if there is something to adjust. Adjusting is very simple. No hassle with needles or nozzles.

I keep wondering why people like to install powercommanders in their bikes when there is much more advanced alternatives with same amount of money. After all PC is just a piggypack which tweaks injector pulses.

 

[jdale]

Tuneboy does not have any versions listed for Ducatis.

 

[Muschi]

Tuneboy does not have any versions listed for Ducatis.

same as moto guzzi, as punch stated in one of his latest post concerning this.

anyway, i want FCRs, i want to push the starter button, open the slides
slightly and want the bike to start.

ba-buum.

the bike with FCRs will have more hp, and a better response imo, no
altiude where i live by the way.

:think:

 

[sledgrehammer]

You can adjust response by adjusting acceleration enrichment. It's a bit like adjusting acceleration pump in FCR. I'm sure you'll get the same amount of HP with carb or injection if the diameter of the carb/throttle body is approximately same. Then there is air temp trim. That is something which you cant get working with carb.

 

[Muschi]

i believe it is something with the way the carb cools down the intake charge,
that a carbed bike will produce slightly more hp.
anyway, it has got to do something with personal preferences maybe,
i had several FI ducatis so far, and had no issues with them yet,
but "my motorcycle" got to have carbs please.



i had several FI ducatis disassembled so far, and was always wondering
what the dead end plug at the right side of the tail was for, now i know.

:think:

 

[944SS]

I would like to say BS.....Carburators are from stoneage and i really can't find any reason to swap my injection system to FCR's......With Tuneboy you can adjust fuel, ignition, idle ignition, barometric trim, offset map and much more...

I don't really think anybody would suggest carbs in general are superior to FI. But in this case, FCR equipped SSs are very close in performance and tuneability to FI bikes.

More to the point, I don't believe it's worth the time and bother for the minor improvement to retrofit pickups & manifolds and install FI on an otherwise fine running FCR equipped SS. Particularly if a re-sale is in your near future.

 

[roadron]

the fcrs have just a thin needle in the bore. throttle bodies have what looks to me a butterfly that looks much more turbulence forming. the throttle body actually measures 42mm on one side.this is why the fcrs can make more hp?

 

[josephvman]

We can all agree that carbs sound better! WWWAAAAAHHHHHH!!!

 

[roadron]

i never heard anything sound as good as the ratatatat of an injected ss with no lid

 

[sledgrehammer]

On the other hand you get very bad turbulence with carbs if your throttle isn't fully open.

 

[arnego2]

Carbs or I.E

Hi there
in my opinion both have advantages but I am always suspicious about new stuff being better as the old. Firstly for new stuff or injection new factories have to be build and investment has to be regained. So we have a hype on all new stuff coming up.

I couldn't care less if my DUC has 59 or 63 HP on the wheel. I hardly ever get to ride it over 120m/h anyway. So torque is more important to me, but not so much that the rear wheel breaks away in a curve at aceleration.

At the moment I believe that my injector needles are gone or dirty my bike runs funny and way to fat. I gladly would figure around a carb rather than just wonder what it could be. Without the tester I try to find a needle in a haystack. A carb would make that search easier.

regards
Arnego2

 

[SoCalDuc]

This is a very interesting thread. Both systems have their advantages, however, it depends what side of the tracks you grew up on to see the facts in their entirety.

My younger riding friends are sold on FI. That is fine. They think carbs are ancient and complicated. In the modern day of plug-n-play, they are right. However, since they lack the common sense approach to all things electro and mechanical, they have no urge to learn about carbs. They have no issue with a $400.00 Power Commander, nor the $500.00 to $1000.00 laptop to make it go. Still can’t get it right. Through in a $150.00 dyno run to get it all right. Wow, that’s progress?

In the stone age (known unofficially as Before Injection, or BI), I could tune a set of carbs for under a dollar (if it needed jets, it was a few dollars more). All it took was getting my hands dirty and the desire to learn. Shims were about 5 cents at the hardware store and jets were a couple of bucks from the dealer. Once set up, they ran perfect every time. While a set of FCR’s are not cheap, they are still a worth while investment on your bike. And the best part is they will stay perfect when you are done setting them up.

I have not run into an FI bike that ran as smooth in all conditions as a properly jetted set of carbs. The only advantage I see to FI is emissions, which is why manufacturers went this direction in the first place (it was not in search of more power or simplicity). I currently have a 2002 750SS and if I attempt to tune it I have to spend a lot of money. I do not call this progress.

It all depends on your perspective.

 

[DME3]

I've been thinking to a FI swap aswel on my '93 750SS. First bike, emotional value etc etc. So I would like to keep it, but change to engine to a 900.

Fuel in europe is expensive. So for the sake of lower fuel consumption I was thinking about a FI engine instead of a carby.
But does a FI engine realy consume less fuel than a carburated engine? I thought it did. But if using flatsides or FCR's will give me more mpg I would go in that direction and spare me the fiddling with mounting (and finding the place for) all them extra parts.