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Blame the universe not the tank!
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Just a quick note. Got home from work and the mailbox had my twin manipulators in there.

The O2 Sensors are located between the cylinders and just under the tail of the gas tank.

Installation: Horizontal cylinder O2 sensor is mounted onto a tabbed bracket between the two cylinders. If you nudge it to the left hand side, it frees up. Then install first manipulator from left side. I temporarily zip tied it to the frame so I could adjust it.

Vertical cylinder O2 sensor is mounted on a tab just under the tank tail. Remove seat to gain access. Remove side panels. Remove rear tank bolt. Rock the tank back a little to get some play to lift it. Place something like a rubber mallet handle under the back edge of the tank so you can get a handle on the plug. I zip tied this manipulator to the right side sub frame top member.

Initially set both to full lean, which adds just a tad more fuel. Took a run to buy dog biscuits. Bottom end feels better, but could be improved. Return to garage, gave dog a biscuit, and turn the adjuster on each manipulator so the screw slot was perpendicular to length of unit or 9 o'clock position. This is about 20 degrees from full lean, I guess.

Took second ride, bottom end even nicer still. Tomorrow hopefully get the CO sniffer onto the bike and see how much a PITA adjusting the bleed screws are. I was able to cruise through the neighborhood at 3750rpm 2nd gear, with a little lurchiness, but tons better than before... it was impossible to think of running the motor that slow.

Still a slight "pause" from 4000 to 4250 range where the power kicks in. The transition through there is smoother. Still not what I'd call comfortable.

Bike threw no codes. Any adjustments are done with bike off per instructions.
 

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2,122 Posts
Good man Bill

Keep us informed as i am due to get mine soon , I think i ordered them the same time but they need to come to the UK.
 

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6 Posts
Fatducs

I installed mine last week and here is my impression. Seems if you adjust it anymore than halfway rich it will set off the check engine light. It is much better at full rich but I hate having the light on so I backed it down to where it doesn't come on and the flat spot at 3500 stays. I have tried with and without the xhaust valve connected. Look like the only way to cure the problem is to change the exhaust and ecu. :(
 

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Bon Vivant
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10,996 Posts
I installed mine last week and here is my impression. Seems if you adjust it anymore than halfway rich it will set off the check engine light. It is much better at full rich but I hate having the light on so I backed it down to where it doesn't come on and the flat spot at 3500 stays. I have tried with and without the xhaust valve connected. Look like the only way to cure the problem is to change the exhaust and ecu.
I agree, they don't work in this situation :(
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,234 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I wont throw in the towel until I had time to measure the CO and adjust the air bleeds. I went thru the same process on my S2R, it took a little time to walk it in... small changes. I did a third adjustment prior to leaving for work this morning where I turned the adjuster from 9 oclock, to 10:30 (heading richer) it seemed easier doing it this way on the other bike for me. Typically there comes the point where you are adding enough fuel, but then it is too rich for the current air bleed settings, so you back them out a little too. I had a mistype last post... I was having good neighborhood rpms at 3750 not 2750. I mistook the dash between 2 and 4k. Doh.
 

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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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19,081 Posts
Just a little insight learned here. After making an adjustment to the manipulator the ECU goes through a learning curve and it takes about 50 - 75 miles before the fuel mixture will become stable. It makes tuning a bit of a guessing game but it does work. Putting the meter on the bike and tuning in real time won't work.
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,234 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I "spoke" (email) with Jason at FatDuc... He recommended setting the units for 13.5, which I did. Went for a short ride. So far even better. Now I'm not going balls out for this next tidbit, but before in stock form I could not for the life of me go into a turn in 1st gear and comfortably roll on. Now I can. When it cools off some in about an hour, I will go for an extended ride. Still not throwing any codes, and not stalling... we'll see later on, just wanted to fill ya in for those interested.

Oh and the flat spot... almost completely gone. I will make double sure with some hard acceleration tests later.
 

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Bon Vivant
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10,996 Posts
After making an adjustment to the manipulator the ECU goes through a learning curve and it takes about 50 - 75 miles before the fuel mixture will become stable. It makes tuning a bit of a guessing game but it does work.
Please explain this to me, I was not aware that a motorcycle ECU used adaptive technology. I'm not an expert, but I doubt this seriously.
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,234 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The extended ride thoughts are derived from others who have used the Manipulator on previous MM ECU bikes. I have one on my S2R1k. The thought is that in the sub 4k range (or wherever the bike changes loops) the bike uses the data from the O2 sensor. I had the impression that map alterations were immediate or "live", others have said the bike must learn from the feedback that the manipulator is altering.

I know that today when I changed my settings from 9:30 to 12 oclock (13.5 according to the printed instructions), the bike ran differently immediately. Maybe Jason could make a better explanation of what is happening since he has done probably the most testing/development with the units.
 

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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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19,081 Posts
The extended ride thoughts are derived from others who have used the Manipulator on previous MM ECU bikes. I have one on my S2R1k. The thought is that in the sub 4k range (or wherever the bike changes loops) the bike uses the data from the O2 sensor. I had the impression that map alterations were immediate or "live", others have said the bike must learn from the feedback that the manipulator is altering.

I know that today when I changed my settings from 9:30 to 12 oclock (13.5 according to the printed instructions), the bike ran differently immediately. Maybe Jason could make a better explanation of what is happening since he has done probably the most testing/development with the units.
Yes, you will notice an immediate change. But, it will change again after riding for a while and will end up different from where your started. It's difficult but with patients you will end up with a setting that works for you. Just make small changes and ride for a while before making more changes. What you will probably find is that setting rich enough to get the best performance will eventually trigger the check-engine light perodically. By compromising a bit leaner the light will only trigger for a few minutes after first starting out and then going away.
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,234 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the info Mike.
Well I did get in some more time, about an hour and a half of mixed city/backroads. Bike is definitely headed in the right direction. I only wish the DDA did not shut off when you stop the bike, or if you could at least start it while rolling. I did get some neat data none the less showing that even rolling on hard from 45mph to 70-ish triggers the DTC. I did not even notice it. It showed up in the data track.

As for the dead spot. I notice it when I gingerly roll on. Bike can go through the neighborhood in 2nd gear 25 mph respectably. It's not fantastic, but tons better than stock. Rolling on through a turn in a normal speed situation is comfortable, and with gusto it is nice as well. The power hit is still there but the bump going into it is softened and then it still comes on strong like it should.
 

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Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
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19,081 Posts
As for the dead spot. I notice it when I gingerly roll on. Bike can go through the neighborhood in 2nd gear 25 mph respectably. It's not fantastic, but tons better than stock. Rolling on through a turn in a normal speed situation is comfortable, and with gusto it is nice as well. The power hit is still there but the bump going into it is softened and then it still comes on strong like it should.
That's pretty much what I've seen on the bikes I've tried it on. Much better than stock and a huge improvement considering the cost.

Rolling on the gas at 45 mph tries to spin the tire???? I'm really jealous :)
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,234 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Yeah, the cool thing is in the DDA you see the percentage of throttle applied, in this case 45% at 45mph. I'm trying my best not to over do it before a few more miles...although I doubt I'm going to be able to hold back until 600miles. I've already dipped into the 7k+, and that is where the motor sounds at home.

Hopefully off to run 100 miles in a few minutes to Warm Springs GA. That would bring me to 550 miles on return. Hope everyone can get out and enjoy a ride, no matter what you ride! And I mean that.
 

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Blame the universe not the tank!
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3,234 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Took the bike on a 230 mile run to Warm Springs, GA. Other than it being BLAZING HOT, the ride went ok.

I ran the setup mentioned previously, 13.5, After 70 miles, I got an engine light. Destination was 102 miles, arrived, ate burger, turned around... After about another 70 miles, engine light again. As Duckman stated, this is one of those things that happens as you try to tune in the Manipulators.

I will back off the 13.5 setting a hair and see how that goes. Running wise, the bike is good off the bottom, with just the hesitation spot on showing up when attempting extremely gentle roll on.

I ran the DDA for the whole ride. Coming back, I hit a section totally deserted. So I backed it down to 1st gear, rolling at 7mph. Then I hammered it until 98mph. I never got to top gear.But I wanted to see how it would look on the DDA when I got home. And more importantly, how the bike felt opened up a bit.

The run looked like this.
1st gear from 7mph-51mph at 43% Throttle

2nd gear from 50-56 (DTC KICKS IN FOR .486 seconds and only took 6 hundredths of a second to apply 48% DTC, then tapers off for a full duration of .486 seconds, after which bike continued onto 75mph in 2nd gear, with 58% throttle.

3rd gear from 75mph to 98mph at 65% throttle.

Either way, I'm impressed with the shifting under power, and that motor definitely likes to make power, and yet can comfortably cruise at 5k until the next opportunity for revs comes about.

One thing is for sure, things happen faster with this motor. You are not waiting on the bike, the bike is waiting on you, or in my case, waiting on me. I'm sure there are plenty of you guys that are well versed in hammer dropping. I only dabble in it. :)
 
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