Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner
  • Hey Everyone! Enter your bike HERE to be a part of this months Bike of the Month Challenge!
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've come across a 916 race bike that a older gentleman was racing in a WERA Vintage class with a Fast by Ferracci 944 Corse super bike engine build.

Any one know anything about these?

I am fairly knowledgable about the street bikes, but not too much about any of the Corse packages or super bike race builds.

Thanks for the help!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
186 Posts
I've come across a 916 race bike that a older gentleman was racing in a WERA Vintage class with a Fast by Ferracci 944 Corse super bike engine build.



Any one know anything about these?



I am fairly knowledgable about the street bikes, but not too much about any of the Corse packages or super bike race builds.



Thanks for the help!
This sounds promising.
Keep us posted.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
Big fan of Eraldo. Just recently bought some oversize valves from them and when I sent a question in, he answered personally and quickly. Helped tremendously. Might come in handy to have support if/when it comes time to do maintenance on the motor?
Although the build is only as good as the builder, I would guess any FBF components are top shelf.

Sounds like a very interesting bike to me!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This sounds promising.
Keep us posted.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Will do! Don't know what the plan is right yet, if we are going to get her running or sell her to someone who is looking for a rewarding project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Big fan of Eraldo. Just recently bought some oversize valves from them and when I sent a question in, he answered personally and quickly. Helped tremendously. Might come in handy to have support if/when it comes time to do maintenance on the motor?
Although the build is only as good as the builder, I would guess any FBF components are top shelf.

Sounds like a very interesting bike to me!

Nice! I think I'll call the shop next week and see if they have a database of builds that they've done. At least get more info on the 944 kit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,675 Posts
if it's 944 it's not a traditional corsa engine, which were all 955. sounds like a 916 made into a race bike with a 900 crank fitted to make it 944.

are you buying it to race, or because you think it might be special?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
if it's 944 it's not a traditional corsa engine, which were all 955. sounds like a 916 made into a race bike with a 900 crank fitted to make it 944.

are you buying it to race, or because you think it might be special?
I was told it was a 944 Ferracci kit, not the 955 Corsa but like I said, not too knowledgeable about any of the build options or performance kits from back in the mid-90's.

I wouldn't race it personally, not into the vintage stuff just yet ;D

It's def a special bike...someone put the time into it. Let me post some pictures.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Senna tail section, upgraded wheels, SBK Arrow full system, PCIII, carbon/kevlar composite fuel tank, brake tech rotors, Ohlins rear shock..plus whatever else.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,226 Posts
I have one of the Ferracci team bikes from 1996. It's an actual 916 Corsa and not a converted street bike. It was Alessandro Gramigni's race winner (Road America and Brainerd) and later was Dr. Dave Kieffer's Fast by Ferracci race bike. It has a ton of 1995/96 WSBK parts from Fogarty, Corser and John Kocinski as well as some parts specific to the Daytona 200.

What specifically do you want to know about them?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
912 Posts
If I remember correctly, Cycle magazine had a single page article on this bike. The issue was the one with the newly introduced 916 on the cover.

Perhaps if someone has an old issue they could post a picture of the article for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have one of the Ferracci team bikes from 1996. It's an actual 916 Corsa and not a converted street bike. It was Alessandro Gramigni's race winner (Road America and Brainerd) and later was Dr. Dave Kieffer's Fast by Ferracci race bike. It has a ton of 1995/96 WSBK parts from Fogarty, Corser and John Kocinski as well as some parts specific to the Daytona 200.

What specifically do you want to know about them?
That sounds like a really cool bike! I love seeing the old SBK "unobtanium" parts and kit.

More about the build list really. I'm sure it's fairly similar to what we do now with rods, pistons, some machine work on the head etc. etc.

And what, if any, small details there might be on the engine cases that might show that it's a Ferracci built power plant.

Were there over bore super bike kits you could buy and have another race shop install? Or were they pretty tight back then and required everything to be completed in shop?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,226 Posts
That sounds like a really cool bike! I love seeing the old SBK "unobtanium" parts and kit.

More about the build list really. I'm sure it's fairly similar to what we do now with rods, pistons, some machine work on the head etc. etc.

And what, if any, small details there might be on the engine cases that might show that it's a Ferracci built power plant.

Were there over bore super bike kits you could buy and have another race shop install? Or were they pretty tight back then and required everything to be completed in shop?
Ah, okay, now I get your question a little better.

Disclaimer: I'm not the expert on this stuff but there are some guys on here who truly are and I'm sure they will chime in if they feel the need.

I think you're asking about two different things. You're comparing a bike built with factory racing parts for a factory backed racing effort to a street bike prepped for amateur racing with some off-the-shelf parts. That said, this might help you understand what you do and don't have:

First, my Corsa bike and the "build list" you asked for: It's a numbered Corsa frame built by the factory for racing for customer race teams (Ferracci needed these particular frames for AMA rules). After that it got a mix of Ferracci AMA race built stuff and hand me down WSBK stuff from the season before from Ducati, as was the custom. Off the top of my head, my bike has: 1995 WSBK wide track triples and forks (marked as Troy Corser's), large axle WSB swingarm (marked as Fogarty's), 95/96 WSBK brake calipers, and a 1995 WSBK rear shock (marked as John Kocinski's). Plus things like a PI dash and data acquisition, all the factory big airbox and corse runners, carbon breathers, Corse radiator and Daytona pushpin release and other stuff. And of course, it has all the factory spec carbon bodywork and tank and all that.

It was built by Mark Sutton for Alessandro Gramigni for when he raced on FBF and was later leased to Dr. Dave Kieffer.

My motor is a 955 motor that Eraldo rebuilt with a 900SS crank to be 984cc after my bike was retired from racing. Eraldo told me this himself plus I have notes on it. It's built as a race motor to be rebuilt every 1000 race kms and puts out 170hp at the rear wheel.

What I suspect you have: Ferracci made a real business of selling aftermarket parts, either parts they used to build race motors or premium aftermarket parts. I don't that there is any question as to the quality of the parts. The issue is always who built them. Other than for the race team and a select few customers (VERY select) the ordinary shop guys did the race kit installs for customers and by many accounts, the quality of the work varied. If you had a race team bike there were never any worries. If you had a dealer-side built bike, very hit or miss.

Some of the FBF kit engine combinations that I remember: 853cc (from 748), 944cc, 955cc (Eraldo had a large role in this creation), 996cc, and 1026cc. I am not sure what parts FBF would have sold to make a 944 kit other than most likely a 900ss crank.

Based on those pics, I don't think that you would have any real pedigree on the build that adds value. I suspect that if the bike is a race bike with a 944 kit, the best thing possible would be to dyno it and see how it runs, maybe check the valves and guides to see if there's any weirdness there, and possibly do a leak down and compression to insure integrity of what it is. If not, you can just do a rebuild with someone dependable who has strong familiarity with Ferracci builds (Mark Sutton or Chris Boy or Boulder Motor Sports) and go from there. I think it would just be too hard to piece together what it is that you have or don't have otherwise.

Of course, if you can dig up receipts with the list of parts and who actually built the motor, that could go a long way but, of course, still wouldn't replace what it is right now.

For reference, I just saw a nice 916/955cc build with a genuine John Hackett Performance kit basically be given away because there wasn't enough to verify who did what and what the current state of running was.

Anyways, hope this helps. As I said, there are some true experts on here who can shed more light if needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Great info! Thank you so much. Certainly helps with what we want to do with the bike moving forward. :D

Ah, okay, now I get your question a little better.

Disclaimer: I'm not the expert on this stuff but there are some guys on here who truly are and I'm sure they will chime in if they feel the need.

I think you're asking about two different things. You're comparing a bike built with factory racing parts for a factory backed racing effort to a street bike prepped for amateur racing with some off-the-shelf parts. That said, this might help you understand what you do and don't have:

First, my Corsa bike and the "build list" you asked for: It's a numbered Corsa frame built by the factory for racing for customer race teams (Ferracci needed these particular frames for AMA rules). After that it got a mix of Ferracci AMA race built stuff and hand me down WSBK stuff from the season before from Ducati, as was the custom. Off the top of my head, my bike has: 1995 WSBK wide track triples and forks (marked as Troy Corser's), large axle WSB swingarm (marked as Fogarty's), 95/96 WSBK brake calipers, and a 1995 WSBK rear shock (marked as John Kocinski's). Plus things like a PI dash and data acquisition, all the factory big airbox and corse runners, carbon breathers, Corse radiator and Daytona pushpin release and other stuff. And of course, it has all the factory spec carbon bodywork and tank and all that.

It was built by Mark Sutton for Alessandro Gramigni for when he raced on FBF and was later leased to Dr. Dave Kieffer.

My motor is a 955 motor that Eraldo rebuilt with a 900SS crank to be 984cc after my bike was retired from racing. Eraldo told me this himself plus I have notes on it. It's built as a race motor to be rebuilt every 1000 race kms and puts out 170hp at the rear wheel.

What I suspect you have: Ferracci made a real business of selling aftermarket parts, either parts they used to build race motors or premium aftermarket parts. I don't that there is any question as to the quality of the parts. The issue is always who built them. Other than for the race team and a select few customers (VERY select) the ordinary shop guys did the race kit installs for customers and by many accounts, the quality of the work varied. If you had a race team bike there were never any worries. If you had a dealer-side built bike, very hit or miss.

Some of the FBF kit engine combinations that I remember: 853cc (from 748), 944cc, 955cc (Eraldo had a large role in this creation), 996cc, and 1026cc. I am not sure what parts FBF would have sold to make a 944 kit other than most likely a 900ss crank.

Based on those pics, I don't think that you would have any real pedigree on the build that adds value. I suspect that if the bike is a race bike with a 944 kit, the best thing possible would be to dyno it and see how it runs, maybe check the valves and guides to see if there's any weirdness there, and possibly do a leak down and compression to insure integrity of what it is. If not, you can just do a rebuild with someone dependable who has strong familiarity with Ferracci builds (Mark Sutton or Chris Boy or Boulder Motor Sports) and go from there. I think it would just be too hard to piece together what it is that you have or don't have otherwise.

Of course, if you can dig up receipts with the list of parts and who actually built the motor, that could go a long way but, of course, still wouldn't replace what it is right now.

For reference, I just saw a nice 916/955cc build with a genuine John Hackett Performance kit basically be given away because there wasn't enough to verify who did what and what the current state of running was.

Anyways, hope this helps. As I said, there are some true experts on here who can shed more light if needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'll check and see if they have a digital archive or something like that, thanks!

If I remember correctly, Cycle magazine had a single page article on this bike. The issue was the one with the newly introduced 916 on the cover.

Perhaps if someone has an old issue they could post a picture of the article for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,675 Posts
I think you're asking about two different things. You're comparing a bike built with factory racing parts for a factory backed racing effort to a street bike prepped for amateur racing with some off-the-shelf parts.
i think this is very much the point here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,175 Posts
pg.36?

If I remember correctly, Cycle magazine had a single page article on this bike. The issue was the one with the newly introduced 916 on the cover.

Perhaps if someone has an old issue they could post a picture of the article for you.
https://books.google.com/books?id=RLgBX0qMEgAC&pg=RA6-PA11&lpg=RA6-PA11&dq=July+1994+Cycle+World+ducati+916&source=bl&ots=VO5OLfLI5r&sig=ACfU3U3KIa3Cnpwcm1qD03ky_0_X9Yp1WQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQpr7_kcziAhWJna0KHQljCdgQ6AEwEHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=July%201994%20Cycle%20World%20ducati%20916&f=false
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,226 Posts
Thank you for posting that magazine with the 944 article. I had never seen a write up on the 2v with the 944 kit (I have it in my 900SS).

Just to state the obvious, that Ferracci 944 kit is based on the 900SS air cooled 2V motor - a completely different beast than the water-cooled Desmoquattro that's in the 916.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,675 Posts
to make a 916 into 944cc you just put a 900 crank in it. ferracci did sell a whole "kit" to do it, which seemed a bit excessive to me. you can do it with all std parts very easily.

the 955cc corsa race capacity was a 916 crank with a 96mm bore, which was a continuation of the 926cc 888 corsa (with the 2mm longer stroke 916 crank) which first appeared in 91 or so.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
That Cycle World cover caused me to go to put a deposit down on what turned out to be the 2nd 916 arriving in Tucson, AZ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Desmofreak
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top