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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay I thought of a question, I've heard that 748's have cooling issues, so you'd think that the installation of an oil cooler would be mandatory on one bored out to an 853, right? Gasoline engines being heat conversion engines...

However I haven't had any problems with heat so far, the coolant reads between 180 and 200 consistently, and usually closer to 180, but we haven't hit the hot days yet and I haven't been on it for more than 30-40 minutes at a stretch yet (still learning to ride).

So what have other people done? How would you install an oil cooler? Just buy one off eBay? I think I saw one go for $100, that's pretty cheap insurance. ...I just wanna do right by the bike, this was a big investment for me and I want to respect it and take care of it.

Thanks in Advance
 

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Get a oilcooler of Ebay and install it. Takes little time for alot better peace of mind. That is what i would do anyway.

If it REALLY gets hot you can get a bigger watercooler aswell.. This pic is of an RS watercooler (a friend of mines bike with a cellphone camera)


//amullo
 

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Matt748 said:
that's pretty cheap insurance. ...
I don't have an 853, but I think you just answered your own question. An oil cooler would be wise for the application. Just remember that your oil capacity has now increased.

Amullo - I really don't like your friend! <jealuosy>
 

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it doesn't sound like you have anything to worry about with those temps. an oil cooler is nice and does help a bit but you're not going to see a significant drop on your temp gauge with one.
 

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buying the oilcooler is easy but installing maybe a challenge. you need to find the block off plates that mate to the oilcooler lines, unless you can have someone machine them or find a parted out 9** motor somewhere. for me it wasn't worth all the hassle and one added thing to worry about.

also, an engine temp gauge is different than an oil temp gauge. you're looking at two different things.
 

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Matt,

Ping Mark Buckelew. He had a punched out 748 like yours and added an oil cooler. I'm with you. You would think that one would be standard. After all, if the M-900 comes standard with one you would think....lol



Matt748 said:
Okay I thought of a question, I've heard that 748's have cooling issues, so you'd think that the installation of an oil cooler would be mandatory on one bored out to an 853, right? Gasoline engines being heat conversion engines...

However I haven't had any problems with heat so far, the coolant reads between 180 and 200 consistently, and usually closer to 180, but we haven't hit the hot days yet and I haven't been on it for more than 30-40 minutes at a stretch yet (still learning to ride).

So what have other people done? How would you install an oil cooler? Just buy one off eBay? I think I saw one go for $100, that's pretty cheap insurance. ...I just wanna do right by the bike, this was a big investment for me and I want to respect it and take care of it.

Thanks in Advance
 

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I've never had a cooling issue with my 748. As far as your 853, just call the folks who installed it or a place like Speeds Cycle that installs these kits. Of course an oil cooler won't hurt, but is it worth the hassle. Those guys will know for sure.

Tony
 

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The people that have added oil coolers or added larger oil coolers-- say it makes a big difference.

I added both a large oil cooler and double row radiator at the same time--so I am not sure which one made the biggest difference. On a 100 degree day up in the hills or track it runs at 12:00 on the temp gauge. If I let the bike idle, the fan would come on and then go off. The temps stay pretty much in the middle of the gauge.
 

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bevel450 said:
Matt,

Ping Mark Buckelew. He had a punched out 748 like yours and added an oil cooler. I'm with you. You would think that one would be standard. After all, if the M-900 comes standard with one you would think....lol
I have that bike now, and it's also got a second fan with a little toggle up by the left controls that I can thumb for extra cooling. Very handy. (Thanks, Mark. :) )
 

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rob said:
I have that bike now, and it's also got a second fan with a little toggle up by the left controls that I can thumb for extra cooling. Very handy. (Thanks, Mark. :) )
I'm not sure what kind of cooling problem the 748 has that any other model doesn't have......BUT...I have seen 748's, that have had spent long periods at just below the rev limiter, losing big end connecting rod bearings - I figured that was due to lack of oil pressure due to high oil temps.

One problem with the 1996 and later bikes, is excessive clearance between the oil pump impellers and oil pump cover. when the oil is cool and thick, it gets pumped and you have oil pressure. When the oil is hot and thin, it goes through this clearance and you end up with crappy oil pressure. When your bike is hot and at idle - and the oil pressure light comes on - that's what's happening. You rev it and the pressure goes up and idle it and it goes down. Not a good situation.

the 851-era bikes that we checked were ALL in spec. After 96, it's a crapshoot. One friend didn't believe it (I won't mention names since he is a Ducati technician) and did have his oil light coming on at idle on hot track days. His impeller to cover clearance was out of spec. Once it was corrected, his oil light never came on again.

Between a manual switch for the cooling fans, the oil cooler installed, and lapping the cover so that I have less than 0.0015" clearance between the oil pump impellers and the cover - I never had a problem with the big end rod bearings or the bike overheating.

With the fan switch, I'd turn it on when I was in stop and go - in the city, and the water temps never got above 190F.

The oil cooler wasn't a big deal - just make sure the ends are compatible, then either get some 996 block off plates, or get them drilled and tapped for the larger banjo bolts.

oh, and there is a bypass that needs to be installed up inside the oil filter cavity - unscrew the nipple that the oil filter threads onto, slide the bypass piece on (fairly evident how it goes if you look at it), then loctite and rethread the nipple back in. This bypass thingy makes sure that the oil goes to the cooler, prior to the filter, and any overpressure oil goes directly into the filter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hey thanks a lot guys. Yes FYI I know there is a difference between oil and coolant temp but thanks.

Well that's good (or crappy, depending on how you look at it) to know that these have that rather unique oil impeller problem.. What oil do you guys recommend? I've been meaning to change the oil more just so I know what's in it (and to check for you know what..don't say it in this forum please - knock, knock) than that I think the other guy didn't take good care of it (he had all his receipts). I was thinking Mobile Synthetic 15w-50? That's what I always ran in my turbo car with high boost (20 psi) and it never seemed to break down. I don't want to start a brand war I just want to know what weight but all advice is welcome and I know some people like different brands of oil for different applications and that is legit.

Also has anyone ever used that Lucas oil additive? I'm sorry but that little gear drive display has me sold. That thing must sit there for hours if not days and every time I'm waiting for the guy I crank it and the oil just ROPES off of the little gears like it's glued on there... Of course I'm thinking rockers, what do you guys think?

Well I guess that settles it as far as the oil cooler goes I'll have to keep my eye out for one. The reality of payments is beginning to creep in so I'm not going to beat a path to spending money but I'll have it done by this time next year and it won't see any abuse before then, just good old running.
 

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Buckelew said:
oh, and there is a bypass that needs to be installed up inside the oil filter cavity - unscrew the nipple that the oil filter threads onto, slide the bypass piece on (fairly evident how it goes if you look at it), then loctite and rethread the nipple back in. This bypass thingy makes sure that the oil goes to the cooler, prior to the filter, and any overpressure oil goes directly into the filter.
Buckelew,

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but what is the torque rating for the nipple? In the Hayes manual, I see a torque rating for a oil filter adapter and it's 45 Nm, but I'm not sure if this is the same part or not.

Thanks!
 

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okay, I just re-read the Hayes manual and I found out that the oil filter adapter is also known as the "nipple" that is referred to in this thread.

FYI I found the blurb on 2-52 in my Hayes manual.
 

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you may want to try Royal Purple oil, supposed to run cooler, they have both a v-twin specific oil and several varieties of racing oils. Google it, lots of racers use it.
 

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Matt748 said:
Also has anyone ever used that Lucas oil additive? I'm sorry but that little gear drive display has me sold. That thing must sit there for hours if not days and every time I'm waiting for the guy I crank it and the oil just ROPES off of the little gears like it's glued on there... Of course I'm thinking rockers, what do you guys think?
That display is a gimmick to attract suckers. If the oil additive really did that it would create excessive fluid friction and lost power. Most oil companies will tell you not to use additives because it can upset the additive package they use and cause real problems.
 

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My 748/853 doesn't have any cooling problems on the street. It doesn't matter what the temp is or how slow traffic is, it never gets to 200F. It runs 165 to 180F when moving. The DucShop told me I might need a cooler on the track after the 853 kit (and blueprint), but not on the street.
 

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Colt45 said:
My 748/853 doesn't have any cooling problems on the street. It doesn't matter what the temp is or how slow traffic is, it never gets to 200F. It runs 165 to 180F when moving. The DucShop told me I might need a cooler on the track after the 853 kit (and blueprint), but not on the street.

Those temps seem good enough.. I guess it´s down to how you ride it. If you don´t track the bike (much anyway) and hardly ever get stuck in traffic, the oilcooler isn´t really necesarry. Airflow will keep the temps down enough so you can ride it even on hot days.

But if your going to spend time on the track or your run the bike in traffic, it still WILL work without an oilcooler, but the bike and engine will be less strained if you install a good oilcooler to lower the temp of the oil being squirted on your cams and rockers. See how i did that? I mentioned CAMS and ROCKERS together with OIL.

Remember that only base 748 models didn´t come with oilcoolers.. all tuned bikes did (Sl/Sp/Sp3/SPS/R/RS). all 916/996/998 did. There is a reason for that. More power = more heat = more need for good cooling

//amullo
 

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try 60/40 water/coolant mix in your radiator. according to the bike manual the coolant/water ratio mix should be that way. download a manual from ducati.com and check it out yourself its not 50/50. remember more water more cooling.
 

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j911brick said:
That display is a gimmick to attract suckers. If the oil additive really did that it would create excessive fluid friction and lost power. Most oil companies will tell you not to use additives because it can upset the additive package they use and cause real problems.
+1 AND it can upset drainback to the sump. You would not believe how many engined get cooked by this.
All the gooey oil in the world up in your motor will not save it if the pump has nothing to pressurize the mains.
 

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I don't know if i'm just super lucky...but I have 2 cars that i've used lucas oil in for the past 100k with every oil change and when I did the rod and main bearings on them...they looked brand spankin new with barely any wear. The Taurus SHO I ran HARD too...I beat the piss out of that thing and the inside of the motor looked brand new, crosshatching still in the cylinders, mains and rod bearings in perfect shape...It was a daily driver, auto-crosser, and drag racer. My beater 93 Chevy Lumina, same thing. I TRIED to destroy that thing, no air filter, changed the oil every 16k or so with the cheapest stuff out there, and the cheapest filter, plus a quart of lucas....rods and mains looked brand new. I now switched over to their synthetic additive for my SHO and a few other cars and have had no problems for the past couple years. Sorry for the speech, no I don't work for them, but they must be doing something right...As for my ducati, yup, I use the synthetic additive in my 748-853. No oil cooler...yet. No flaking rockers yet either, but that seems random when people get those. Everyone here will be the first to know when something of mine seizes or gets screwed up...That'll then be my ANTI-lucas rant lol.
 
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