[Jellonailer]

I have a '99 748 all stock with 5015 miles at a very low basis. Should I upgrade to Ohlins rear and re-spring, re-valve/spring the Showa fronts, add Termi 1/2 pipes, and lastly switch to Marchesini 5 spokes? This is about a $2k project - or... should I just look into a 998/998s, 848 or 1098 and be done with it?

Almost forgot - must be yellow, since it's the fastest color.
I guess that eliminates the 848.

Appreciate any comments - please share your thoughts. Thanks.

 

[dv8ryan]

I just bought an 02 748 and will be doing pretty much the same. I could have bought a 996 and have been done with it. But I was also interested in the actual project and the chance to do the work myself. So I guess you gotta ask if you really just want the upgrades to just have them or you want to do them because you'll enjoy the work you put into the bike. Good luck man.

 

[j3w]

Almost forgot - must be yellow, since it's the fastest color.

Yellow? Where do you live so I can come slap you upside the head...

 

[Jellonailer]

Yeah, that seams to be the sentiment around this site. I've seen that comment a ton.
I was being factitious - a white 848 is damn good looking. For some reason the 848 doesn't look as good in red as the other bikes.

 

[Mospeada]

Can't put a price tag on good suspension. And Ohlins got a killer deal going on right now.

The only other thing, if the current suspension is in good working order (meaning the fork has fresh seals/fluid less than 2 years old) are a set of BST's.

Personally, I would go with the BST's, given my suspension is fine.

 

[Jellonailer]

Thanks Mospeada for your input. I take it you think the upgraded 748 platform is a good way to go and not upgrade bikes. Point well taken.
Only question would be the durability of BST's. I'm in Houston not S. Cali and our roads are absolutely pathetic - would they not be more fragile than aluminum 5 spokes? Seems like the trade for more strength and a lower price would be worth a little less performance. Does any one have experience with these wheels on rough roads?

 

[Mospeada]

Thanks Mospeada for your input. I take it you think the upgraded 748 platform is a good way to go and not upgrade bikes. Point well taken.
Only question would be the durability of BST's. I'm in Houston not S. Cali and our roads are absolutely pathetic - would they not be more fragile than aluminum 5 spokes? Seems like the trade for more strength and a lower price would be worth a little less performance. Does any one have experience with these wheels on rough roads?

That's a very common myth. BST's are extremely strong, and aluminum will bend and dent. CF will bounce back. Take an aluminum rim, and bounce it on the concrete, it will be ugly. Same with the BST, and it will just 'bounce' and not dent.

But believe me, if you ever shatter a BST rim, the rim will be the least of your problems!

I had a pair on my Hayabusa for almost 7 years. Road raced, drag raced, canyon raced, toured on the bike for 35k miles. I mean, I *RODE* that bike, and not one burp from the rims.

Ask anyone who has a pair, and they will tell you it's the first mod they would do on any bike. Still thinking about it for my Duc, but more than I can swing right now.

 

[JeffKoch]

I have a '99 748 all stock with 5015 miles at a very low basis. Should I upgrade to Ohlins rear and re-spring, re-valve/spring the Showa fronts, add Termi 1/2 pipes, and lastly switch to Marchesini 5 spokes? This is about a $2k project - or... should I just look into a 998/998s, 848 or 1098 and be done with it?

Almost forgot - must be yellow, since it's the fastest color.
I guess that eliminates the 848.

Appreciate any comments - please share your thoughts. Thanks.

Why do you want to do all these mods? Performance? Looks? The stock bike works great as a street bike, just some suspension tuning (appropriate springs, appropriate preload, appropriate damping) and a decent geometry (front and rear ride heights) - you'll never come close to the limits of the stock bike on the street. If it's looks, that's fine, but be honest with yourself about what you're trying to achieve.

 

[amullo]

I gotta go with suspension and chassis setup. I had my rear Öhlins rebuilt and at the same time serviced the front and got new Öhlinsoil in there together with springs and the diffrence is HUGE! Then dropped the front slightly and raised the rear and suddenly the bike was quick, nimble and extremly steady in the corners.

You could just set the suspension up (providing its working well enough), the stock stuff is good enough on the street, you just need to make sure it works as intended depending on when it was looked at/serviced last time and dial everything in. Spending a few bucks on a reputable servicecenter and getting there help to set everything up will go a long way towards giving you the right basic tool to start going fast on. But its entirly possible to do it yourself but depending on what you weigh a re-spring might be in order.

After that..
-Change gearing - 14/40 will give you free performance for low costs
-Lighter rims - I have Marchesini Magnesiums on mine and that was a HUGE diffrence!
-Better brakes - Just better pads will increase performance ALOT. I like EBC HH myself, but they are abit extreme for "street only" use.
-Exhaust - Not much in powergain, but the sound will have you smiling alot more.
-Camtiming and Fueling/Powercommander/chip - Gain midrange and driveability without much in the way of cost. Here is a report on camtiming and fueling gains. A buddy of mines bike, he says its silky smooth in delivery now. http://www.hypertrick.net/reports/748Bip.asp or Bikeboy Brad Blacks report on camtiming a 748 http://www.bikeboy.org/748strada.html


So yeah.. Get the suspension fixed and setup first. That is the most crucial point to get right on any bike

//amullo

 

[camlob]

I gotta go with suspension and chassis setup. I had my rear Öhlins rebuilt and at the same time serviced the front and got new Öhlinsoil in there together with springs and the diffrence is HUGE! Then dropped the front slightly and raised the rear and suddenly the bike was quick, nimble and extremly steady in the corners.

You could just set the suspension up (providing its working well enough), the stock stuff is good enough on the street, you just need to make sure it works as intended depending on when it was looked at/serviced last time and dial everything in. Spending a few bucks on a reputable servicecenter and getting there help to set everything up will go a long way towards giving you the right basic tool to start going fast on. But its entirly possible to do it yourself but depending on what you weigh a re-spring might be in order.

After that..
-Change gearing - 14/40 will give you free performance for low costs
-Lighter rims - I have Marchesini Magnesiums on mine and that was a HUGE diffrence!
-Better brakes - Just better pads will increase performance ALOT. I like EBC HH myself, but they are abit extreme for "street only" use.
-Exhaust - Not much in powergain, but the sound will have you smiling alot more.
-Camtiming and Fueling/Powercommander/chip - Gain midrange and driveability without much in the way of cost. Here is a report on camtiming and fueling gains. A buddy of mines bike, he says its silky smooth in delivery now. http://www.hypertrick.net/reports/748Bip.asp or Bikeboy Brad Blacks report on camtiming a 748 http://www.bikeboy.org/748strada.html


So yeah.. Get the suspension fixed and setup first. That is the most crucial point to get right on any bike

//amullo

How would you rate Carrozzeria's? They are US$1,700 for a set and they claim to be(Vtrack) 4.5 lbs lighter than stock wheels. Well they used 1098 wheels as comparison. Such a huge variance in costs vs. Marchesini mag's and BST's.

 

[amullo]

Dont know about those.. Haven´t seen them IRL. Try to get them to weight the rims and then check against other makes. But as i said.. rims would be a distant third or even forth on my upgrade priority list.

//amullo

 

[Jellonailer]

Wow. Really appreciate everyones comments. Thank you very much, exactly what I had hoped for.
A couple of comments:
1) It's obvious the suspension has the be the first item addressed. It's set up stock and I'm 235 lbs dressed in gear, the bike isn't even close regardless of what wheels are on it.
2) If suspension and geometry are right it appears it's overwhelming that the next upgrade are the wheels.
3) Exhaust upgrade is simply between my ears, so to speak, and not really for performance.
That being said, the first two items above brings the cost basis up to the cost of a 996 or close to a 998 and some change, but it's still a 748 when it's all done. Spec to spec there's probably not enough of a difference toreally matter between a 748 and a 996, they're both better than I am if set up right, so it's only a matter of wants vs. needs.

 

[1fast750ss]

I have to agree with Mark on this one. What do you want to achieve here? Looks, performance, cost, or just some out loud thinking for reassurance? Not sure based on the first post.

TBS, there are many people here that can help, no doubt, just need to know what you want the result to be.

 

[Jellonailer]

Thanks Brian and Mark.
I'm trying to figure out if I should move forward upgrading my existing bike for street and the occassional track day. I already knew at bare minimum it needs suspension work - rework/revalve, tune, front & back, geometry, etc. and based on everyones posts here replace the 3 spoke Brembos. I personally think (from everyones comments) that would transform the bike and since I already love it now, so much better. But that being said, there are numerous posts on here implying or even flat out stating riders tire quickly of the 748 series and move on up to a 996/998/1098. I'd like to avoid putting $2-3k into it and essentially end up with a lower powered 998.
It's not a cost or looks issue, if a 998S makes sense I'll go that route. It's interesting that it appears there are two camps on this issue - get the bigger bike and upgrade the 748, about evenly split.
I'm beginning to understand why so many people have so many bikes. I can't seem to stop myself from wanting a garage full of Ducatis.
Thanks for taking the time to post your replies.

 

[1fast750ss]

The 998S will have the Ohlins suspension with higher spring rates, but you will basically be in the same boat that your are in now. You would still need to set the suspension up with the possibility of valving and spring rates for your weight. The big difference would be the better motor, without a doubt.

 

[mia748sp]

The 998S will have the Ohlins suspension with higher spring rates, but you will basically be in the same boat that your are in now. You would still need to set the suspension up with the possibility of valving and spring rates for your weight. The big difference would be the better motor, without a doubt.

Agreed. The suspension for your needs (street and occassional track) should be first. As far as which bike, it's really a matter of personal preference. Some like the rev nature of a 748, while others "tire" of its lack of outright power. I have ridden a lot of different superbikes and like the 748 for what is, not what it is not. Are there some tracks where I would like more power? Sure. Do I have an 853 kit just sitting(for a year) for when I really want to put more power into the bike? Sure.

I would evaluate what "type" of ride/style you are and go from there. If you are concerned with having power then go the bigger bike route. If you still can't decide, then get both!

You did state that either bike is more capable than you are so that might be the telling statement right there.

 

[Enigma]

I gotta go with keep your money, if you only have 6k on a 10 yr old bike. I would take a vacation. Not being negative it doesnt make sense to spend money on a bike that you barely ride.

 

[Filantroop]

I gotta go with keep your money, if you only have 6k on a 10 yr old bike. I would take a vacation. Not being negative it doesnt make sense to spend money on a bike that you barely ride.

I agree with Enigma,
If you only ride a bike 600 miles a year the stock set up will be plenty and I would be surprised if you would get to know the bike well enough to reach it's limit in so few miles.

If you recently bought the bike and/or plan to ride getting new spring for the front and getting the ohlins rear shock is a good idea (did the same on mine). Personally I think 3k wheels on a 6k bike are a bit overkill so I wouldn't get BST, however they do seem very nice...
Tbh why bother getting the 5 spokes alu wheels to replace the 3 spokes? they are the same weight... I think...
Only forged alu/mag/carbon wheels are much lighter then the 3 spokes.
5 spokes do look nicer then 3 though

 

[Lil' Red]

Can't put a price tag on good suspension. And Ohlins got a killer deal going on right now.

The only other thing, if the current suspension is in good working order (meaning the fork has fresh seals/fluid less than 2 years old) are a set of BST's.

Personally, I would go with the BST's, given my suspension is fine.

Plus one

 

[Jellonailer]

Thanks everyone. Survey says... I like mia748sp's answer the best, have them both!

Though all the superbikes are better than I am right now, that's not my long term plan. I'm no mini-Tye with aspirations but the plan is to ride, learn, enjoy, and ride faster. I've only had the bike for 3 months now but have put almost 1000 miles on it, and I travel about 1/3 of the time. My poor S2R has been riden only 12 miles since the 748 showed up; really surprised how much I enjoy the superbike.

In that case, looks like I'll be doing rebuilt Ohlins on the back with proper spring, rebuild existing front Showa forks by Racetech, tune both and geometry set-up. First things first right. Points are well taken on the wheels - 5 spoke cast aluminum only look better and weigh about the same so it's used magnesium or forged aluminum. $2300 wheels don't make sense on a $4000 ride. This should transform the bike.

If I decide to go for more grunt at a later date I still have the Ohlins and the wheels if I need them and can return the 748 to stock, or... use the S2R as trade-in fodder for an 848 or a 998. Leaves me lots of options.

Thanks everyone, especially amullo and 1fast750ss. Great forum - demonstrates the value and power of the cloud.