[LEXngton]

For those of us who have to use Ethanol based gasoline any recommendations of additives to use to help alleviate the effects of Ethanol to our tanks?

 

[Chuckracer]

if you do a search of this site for Ethanol, I think you will find many lively discussions.

 

[RockAZ]

https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-treatments/safeguard-ethanol-fuel-conditioner-with-stabilizers

this lucas stuff is the best, imho, but I also use Seafoam

https://www.amazon.com/Sea-Foam-sf-16-Motor-Treatment/dp/B0002JN2EU/

Soon someone will declare royal purple is all that,..

 

[Team Serpent]

That's crazy, was just looking at this today - What is the Best Ethanol Fuel Treatment?

 

[RockAZ]

That's crazy, was just looking at this today - What is the Best Ethanol Fuel Treatment?

Stabil and that Startron stuff seem like just the thing for winter storage of motorcycles, but to treat ethanol for daily drivers of old vehicles I think the Lucas or Seafoam are better, imo

 

[DuckMan]

There’s nothing going to protect your plastic tank from the ethanol. All those additives do is keep the water that it attracts in solution rather than settling out.

Think about the one here that is recommended for 100% ethanol. You think it’s going to get rid of the ethanol.


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[Team Serpent]

Stabil and that Startron stuff seem like just the thing for winter storage of motorcycles, but to treat ethanol for daily drivers of old vehicles I think the Lucas or Seafoam are better, imo

That's pretty much what the article I posted said as well

 

[Team Serpent]

There’s nothing going to protect your plastic tank from the ethanol. All those additives do is keep the water that it attracts in solution rather than settling out.

Think about the one here that is recommended for 100% ethanol. You think it’s going to get rid of the ethanol.


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? I don't see one recomneded here for 100% ethanol, maybe a link you meant to post didn't take?

Also, they do a bit more than "keep the water that it attracts in solution"

The main problem with ethanol fuel is that it absorbs water from the atmosphere. Even fuel with a small amount of ethanol such as an E10 blend can absorb up to 50% more water from the atmosphere than gasoline.

So what’s the problem with water in your gas tank? Basically once the amount of water in the fuel reaches saturation point, it causes the fuel to separate into two layers; one thick and one thin. The thick layer contains gasoline and a small amount of ethanol. The thin layer contains water with ethanol. Even a small amount of water will cause this separation. These additives prevent separation among other things like helping to protect rubber and plastic components.

 

[DuckMan]

Did you click on the Lucas Oil link? Did you read it? Try again.


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[SP3]

https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...uxmint_com&p=separating+ethanol+from+gasoline

 

[Team Serpent]

Did you click on the Lucas Oil link? Did you read it? Try again.


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I didn't see a link in your post, are you talking about this link - https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-t...th-stabilizers - posted by RockAZ?

I did read it, I didn't see anything stated about 100% enthanol or additional information about what it does with the water enthanol attracts.

Your response seems to have a bit of a tone to it, not sure why as I'm just asking questions and sharing information, I'm just starting to learn about this and how ethanol effects the plastic fuel tanks as it's a concern for me. I then shared with you information of what I had learned about what these additives are suppose to do from what I thought was a good source. Explaining that they do a bit more than just "keep the water that it attracts in solution" as you had stated.

Sorry if that didn't come across right and pissed you off or put you on the defensive, not my intention.

 

[MrAlien]

is it that hard for people to find ethanol free gas? almost every bike shop in my area sells ethanol free gas like T4

 

[alliswell]

? I don't see one recomneded here for 100% ethanol, maybe a link you meant to post didn't take?

From the first link that RockAZ posted:

Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers was developed to specifically address issues associated with using ethanol based fuels. This applies to E-10, E-15, E-85, pure ethanol and any mixtures in between including gasoline. Our Product is completely soluble in all ethanol fuels and will not harm filters. Lucas Safeguard™ Ethanol Fuel Conditioner with Stabilizers contains effective additives to prevent rust and corrosion associated with the use of ethanol fuels.

KEY BENEFITS
Cleans injectors, valve seats, combustion chambers and other critical fuel components
Stabilizes fuel and prevents varnish & gum formation in ethanol and gasoline
Combats deposits and protects your engine oil lubricants from the harmful effects of alcohol combustion

 

[Team Serpent]

Thanks for pointing that out! I was looking for 100% and didn't make the association! I guess pure would equal 100% :grin2: Guess I need to open my mind and not just my eyes :wink2:

 

[mlukason]

is it that hard for people to find ethanol free gas? almost every bike shop in my area sells ethanol free gas like T4

No gas stations in MA sell EtOH free gas through pumps. A far as I know, the closest station is a Stewart's in NY (about 2 hours drive). :frown2:
You can buy VP fuel in a can for 10 bucks a gallon.

 

[MrAlien]

No gas stations in MA sell EtOH free gas through pumps. A far as I know, the closest station is a Stewart's in NY (about 2 hours drive). :frown2:
You can buy VP fuel in a can for 10 bucks a gallon.

not at a gas station, I buy T4 at my local bike shop. do shops up there not sell it?

 

[ELK]

the fuel tanks are made by Acerbis from a type of nylon known as 6/6, aka Polyamide 6, or PA6. Nylon 6/6 absorbs water, up to 8% by weight. The water molecules displace the nylon molecules, deforming the nylon molecular matrix. Additionally, the increase in spacing between the nylon molecules decreases its stability and allows the nylon to move.

Ethanol is hygroscopic and draws moisture from the air. This makes it heavier and, when there is sufficient moisture content, phase separation occurs at the bottom of the tank and the water/ethanol separates from the gasoline. The released water is absorbed by the nylon tank.

The nylon can dry out again if no/limited moisture is in the tank, decreasing the swelling.

Sea Foam contains isopropyl alcohol which solubilizes free standing water in gasoline. Ethanol does the same.

When ethanol containing fuel reaches a saturation point, the ethanol and water phase separate as distinct layers at the bottom of the tank (an ethanol/eater mix and a separate layer of water below it). Adding isopropyl alcohol can solubilize the water, but now you have even more alcohol in your fuel.

Exacerbating all of this is that the amount of water ethanol can hold in gasoline before phase separation occurs is temperature dependent. A drop from room temperature to 20F decreases the amount of water the ethanol will hold in solution by over 30%.

The only real solution is avoiding ethanol laced fuel.

 

[DuckMan]

So you actually think it's water that causing our tanks to warp and expand. Water? Seriously?

Wow! That's some whoop ass H2O! I'm surprised it doesn't melt all those bottles of water on the shelves at the convenient stations.

 

[happiness is golden]

Just my 2 cents worth.
Only ever use ethanol free. Usually Shell or Ultramar. Toronto area.
Plus K100 for my fuel stabiliser.
In the past I had to go out and let the build up inside my gas tank out.
This year, don`t know why but no build up of gas.

 

[Team Serpent]

So you actually think it's water that causing our tanks to warp and expand. Water? Seriously?

Wow! That's some whoop ass H2O! I'm surprised it doesn't melt all those bottles of water on the shelves at the convenient stations.

Ok, I guess it wasn't me... you're just snarky to everyone.