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Electrosport reguglator/rectifier is not plug and play, quite

6K views 67 replies 15 participants last post by  BrianK 
#1 ·
Just bought a new one, model ESR515, for my 1997 SS/CR. Supposed to plug right into the wiring harness. Be aware, it doesn't. Male plugs to alternator females way too small, won't stay in. Male plug on power line to battery way too small, no way it will fit into the female end from the battery.

I'll solder the connections tomorrow after I buy some more heatshrink tubing; tight quarters but no biggie. But anyone buying on the premise that it's plug-and-play should understand, it ain't.
 
#6 ·
I think soldering is the better option and is what I chose to do. Too many of those connections become corroded and cause the R/R or stator to fail. I snipped the ends and soldered them directly to the leads from the stator. It will make maintenance in the future more complicated though. I chose the ESR510 for the direct to battery charging, and bypassing the 25 year old harness completely.
 
#11 ·
Electrosport is a good outfit and their product has been bullet-proof for us.

So, going forward here is the schema for the newer riders (who have yet to hassle with a reg) -

OEM and many aftermarket regulators use bipolar transistors (although Ducati is now shipping the new bikes with MOSFET regs).

Bipolar transistors waste energy as heat as they never really turn all the way off. A MOSFET is a type of transistor that does turn all the way off and so they run cooler and the energy that was being wasted as heat is available for the system.

That is why they have a higher charge rate at idle.

They generally free up about 50 watts, so on an older bike that has a lower output alternator, you can "find" 50 watts by upgrading to a MOSFET design. That is really the only way to get extra energy into the system. Many older bikes had 300-350 watt systems and many newer bikes come with 700 watt systems. So, if you have added a lot of accessories that might be something to think about.

3 yellow wires out of the alternator case = 3-phase. You need a 3-phase regulator to get the full output.

2 yellow wires coming out of the alternator case = single-phase. You can use either a single-phase or a 3-phase regulator. If it is a 3-phase reg you just use any 2 of the 3 yellow inputs and ignore the 3rd. Nothing bad will happen and it will give you whatever output is coming out of the alternator.

If you are the type to plan ahead and are planning a tour or just a longer trip away from home it is a good step to buy a new reg (while the OEM is still working) and install the new one. Convert any connections to be universal between the 2 regs. Then pack the OEM (and any tools needed to get at it) along as a backup.

HTH.

M./
 
#18 ·
Bipolar transistors waste energy as heat as they never really turn all the way off. A MOSFET is a type of transistor that does turn all the way off and so they run cooler and the energy that was being wasted as heat is available for the system.
what happens to the alternator output when the mosfet open? does the output ac just become potential and just wait for more draw? that's the part i don't get about the mosfet.
 
#12 ·
I was more than a little peeved that the Electrosport reg/rec advertised as plug-and-play was not. Having said which, it's installed and outputting 14.4-.5V from idle to (as near as I've dared come while revving in neutral) redline is pretty impressive. So overall I'm not unhappy with my purchase.
 
#13 ·
Well, they were right and they were wrong.

That reg does plug&play on the 907IE and a few other bikes of that era.

But Ducati changed everything all the time in that time-frame so the only way to know when things started/stopped and changed is to get feedback from the end-user. There is no documentation anywhere, not at Ducati, not anywhere.

They have 3 Diavel models all with the battery down in the lower front of the bike. The starter is in the same place on all 3 and the ground point is in the same place on all 3. Do you think they would all take the same starter circuit kit?

Well, you would be wrong. They have 3 slightly different layouts each with a different combination of specialized battery terminals. Why? Because why not 😀 ?

Anyway, very glad you were able to get it sorted out and that you have the positive attitude. It's really needed these days.
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The best social distancing is riding your motorcycle!

Ride Safe & Stay Safe!
----

M./
 
#14 ·
I can second that a 3-phase RR does work on a 2 wire (single-phase) stator. I used one on an older Moto Guzzi, and it solved its charging issue. (OEM RR gave me 12.5V, not good enough for an AGM battery. Replacement 3 ph. unit on the single phase stator brought it to 14V.)
 
#15 ·
Some useful info -

When you start your bike, the high current flow depletes the battery's storage of current potential and it needs to be charged back up while you ride.

Here's the lowdown on charging voltages -

On all lead-acid batteries, you have to overcome some "overhead" in the chemical process and that means you have to be above about 13.2 V. Below that you are just treading water and not really charging the battery back up. That voltage will probably run the bike but then when you park, it will be in a discharged state.

With AGM+ like an Odyssey or the top-tier Yuasa, they need more like 13.6 V minimum and they actually last much longer if they are charged at a quite high voltage (up past 14.5+).

LiFePO4 batteries also need 13.2 or more and they are much more easily recharged. They will recharge in a few blocks whereas the lead-acid tech might take 20 miles of riding.

None of them want to see more than 14.7 V and most MC regs are configured to top out at that voltage.

They are all okay with up to 15.0 V but after 14.9 V you are starting to reduce the life of the battery. Above 15.2 V you are damaging the battery but it might be months or years before you see the degradation. The degradation results in a shortened lifespan. A battery that would have lasted 5 years tanks in 3, a battery that would have lasted 3 years tanks in 15 months. That kind of thing.

Gel cell batteries were the first sealed type and BMW used them and so others started to also install them in their bikes. But BMW also supplied a voltage regulator that topped out at 14.4 V (or close to it).

All batteries have a "gassing" state where they emit explosive gas. That's why there was always the notice to keep sparks away from any charging wet-cell batteries.

An AGM is a sealed lead-acid battery with a one-way valve. They are actually called valve-regulated batteries. If the gassing voltage is exceeded the gas exits the one-way valve.

On Gel-cells when the gassing voltage is exceeded (14.4 V) the gassing forms bubbles in the gel and that causes a loss of capability and the batteries degrade in a short time (12 months erc.)

So, don't buy a true Gel-cell or a wet-cell, get an AGM.

How do I know about Gel-cells? I ate through 2 of them, 1 right after another in the 1998-99 timeframe. The OEM Ducati regulators go to 14.7 and that caused the gas pockets to form and it was downhill from there.

HTH.

M./

----
The best social distancing is riding your motorcycle!

Ride Safe & Stay Safe!
----
 
#16 ·
Some good reading :)
I'm contemplating going lithium on my next battery for the Superlight and new I'd better upgrade my regulator.
Seeing there's options allowing straight to the battery connection is a nice find.
 
#19 ·
I think it wise to point out that most 2nd generation Lithium batteries commonly include on-board voltage protection circuitry which provides over-current protection and under-voltage shut off.

Shorai are the most popular brand, but they are old school and don't have any sort of voltage protection, they are extremely susceptable to overvoltage damage and also capable of killing the battery from draining it too far. Those with the voltage protection built in will also commonly allow you to use an off-the-shelf battery tender, will "disconnect" the battery internally if voltage drops below a threshold (11.2v maybe?) and disconnect when exposed to voltage past 14.9 or so.
 
#22 ·
They did and they did it promptly and with a good grace. I returned the old one and asked if they'd let me know if they figured out what was wrong with it. They said it received extreme overvoltage.

I guess the tech knows more than a little about Ducks as he said he noticed that was the bike I was using it in and was I aware they're notorious for reg/rec failures...? As soon as he said that I realized what a schmuck I was not to have tested the charging output BEFORE running the new battery - particularly given the old one died prematurely. Duh! Where's that forehead slap icon when I need it....!

So bad news is that overcharge protection feature is apparently not all it could be. The good news is EarthX stands by their product. As with the Electrosport reg/rec, a bit more adventure than I'd hoped for but ultimately I'm satisfied with both purchases.
 
#23 ·
Most protection circuits have a buffer to make sure they don't get tripped on routine small surges that would not damage the battery.

'But that means some quick large surges can slip through and that is what probably happened.

Shorai was first out the gate with a full series of batteries for motorcycles and they made the decision to place the battery maintenance/balancing circuit inside the charger. If they had it to do over again maybe they would put them inside the batteries like most of the other makers now do.

But they do stand behind the product with a 5-year warranty and in our experience, they have been very reliable.

There can be some confusion about voltages with the lead-acid and LiFePO4 technologies.

Both really only have about a 1-volt range from fully charged to dead.

Lead-acid wet cells are 11.8-12.65
Lead-acid AGM are 11.8-12.75
Lead-acid AGM+ are 11.8-12.85
LiFePO4 are 12.83-14.3 although most do not maintain the full 14.3 and are normally more like 13.9.

If a LiFePO4 is allowed to drop below 12.83 they usually cannot be brought back up using a conventional smart charger.

People often think they are dead for good and feel they got a poor value due to the perceived shorter than expected lifespan.

But they can (often but perhaps not 100% of the time) be resurrected by using a cheap dumb trickle charger.

A smart charger will sense that the battery is overly depleted and shut back off.

But a dumb charger will just force the current into the battery. If you carefully monitor the voltage (check every 30 minutes or so etc.) as it comes back up, once you get into the 12.85+ range then a smart charger can be used to take over and charge the battery back up.

HTH.
 
#25 ·
That's absolutely true (in theory) but our experience with the batteries is that there is not much of a true issue in the field.

I have had them on my Duc and now my Indian. They've been getting charged by a regulator and when I plug them into the charger it does not sense an imbalance and try to balance them.

FWIW, we have a pending voltmeter product in the works and when I called around to the various makers to ask very specific questions about batteries and voltages and loads and such, the only companies where I got to talk at length with a technical person were Odyssey, Yuasa, and Shorai.

I emailed and left messages for the other LiFePO makers and never got any responses. And I tried more than once.

I was surprised that the others did not even ask what it was that I wanted as I was not "Joe Schmoe, some motorcycle guy" I was a company that worked in electrics in the MC field. And I might have been a new reseller account for them, But, - crickets.

I was able to get the info that was needed and we have a killer new product in the works.

M./
 
#27 ·
I'm back.

So all was, at long last, good. New reg/rec, new battery, charging output perfect. Life is good.

Bike stook for maybe a month while I waited for a part. Went out to it today, turned on the key, nothing. No. Thing. Voltmeter says 1.xxx volts at the battery. Onto the Optimate, first time around went into "Save" mode then flashing red trouble sign. Unplugged, let sit a minute, tried again. Save mode, then charging mode, currently in testing mode.

I really, really want to like lithium batteries but I'm having difficulty trusting them.
 
#29 · (Edited)
This pretty much indicates that you have a parasitic current draw somewhere on the bike.

There are 3 downsides to the LiFePO4 tech batteries.

1) they cost a chunk more than a decent AGM or AGM+ but that is offset by the significant reduction in weight

2) they have the well known poor(er) cold-weather performance. I say poorer because all batteries fall down in the colder weather, LiFePO4 just fall further down than lead-acid tech.

3) the makers (all of them) market the batteries using the Amp Hour Equivalent (let’s call it a system) of designating the power available from the battery.

So, they add the little LiFePO4 cells into banks and then calculate the current discharge rate and see where a lead-acid battery would be and use the lead-acid amp hour rating as their rating.

If a lead-acid with 180 cold-cranking amps would be a 14 amp hour battery, they rate their 180 cold-cranking amp unit as a 14 AH equivalent.

But the knock is that a 14 AH lead-acid battery will have 14,000 milliamps while the LiFePO4 battery will only have 33% of that storage or 4620 milliamps.

With no parasitic draw, a LiFePO4 does not self-discharge and will hold it's charge for over a year just sitting there, while a lead-acid will self-discharge and be dead in 2-3 months (even with no parasitic draw).

But if you do have any parasitic draw the LiFePO4 will go dead in 1/3 the time of a lead-acid battery.

Since yours sat for 1 month and was fully dead it means you have a small draw somewhere on the bike. If you had a lead-acid you might have had enough storage left to crank over the engine but you still might not have been able to get it to start in its depleted state.

Hope This Helps.

Thanks,

M./
 
#30 ·
I have the same drain-down issue on my 900SS. The EarthX will shut itself down in about 3-5 days if not on a charger. There's a short or drain somewhere. I don't have anyting that creates a parasitic loss installed on the bike (no alarm, no lo-jack, no clock, no phone charger).

I'm not sure how the Optimate chargers work. With my Battery Tender Pro and the EarthX, if it drains down the it goes into a "no battery present" mode, due to the EarthX cutting the circuit to the cells to prevent under charging due to drain. The EarthX recovery procedure is documented: use a standard 12V battery in parallel with the EarthX and the charger, just long enough to get the charger to go into charge mode, then disconnect the secondary battery. I use a couple of leads of 12 gauge wire with the ends stripped back a few inches.

When I moved the EarthX battery over to my track bike, it seems to last at least 15 days and still power the ECU and crank the bike. That bike is fully stripped and track prepped, with the starter and ECU immobilizer enabled in the 5AM. For me it's not a battery problem, it's a bike problem.
 
#32 ·
If you have a voltmeter, use the DC amps function to check the draw. You have to run the meter inline with the positive lead.

On your bike, there is probably (should be) a large black connector inline on the positive. You can pull that apart and attach your test lead to the little terminal in the connector that goes off into the loom. That should be where the drain is located.

DO NOT start the bike with the meter inline as most meters are only rated to 10 amps. The starter motor will draw up around 80 amps and there are surges when the motor stops drawing that could flow back through the loom. A toasted meter is no fun (I have a $125 toasted meter from testing a Harley).

HTH.

Thanks,

M./
 
#34 ·
6ma is enough to kill a normal lead acid battery in a few days. most likely candidate is the voltage reg, but just check it out and see what you find. i use the multimeter on ma setting with one lead connected to the battery terminal and the other to the + loom terminals. don't turn the ignition on.
 
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