Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hey

I am in Ireland, have a 748s 2002 and a monster 900 1997 carb bike

There is talk of having E10 as the main source of fuel on the forecourts

You guys have it in the US, a number of years now

Any adverse affects running it on the older carb bikes and tamburini models?

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
Ethanol

You are correct that most states do offer ethanol based fuels here, however, general consensus is that you probably should avoid it in your bike if you can. Alcohol absorbs water and that in itself can cause issues....not that you have any damp weather in Ireland! Also alcohol and rubber parts, think fuel lines and carburetor diaphragms for example, do not get along with exposure leading to deterioration. This may not help in your particular situation, but I never use any alcohol blended fuels in any of my vehicles. An octane additive may help with the performance aspect but you still are left with the detrimental effects of alcohol if that is what you are forced to use. Frankly from what I have read the only benefit achieved from even using alcohol in fuel is if you happen to make your living by growing corn!! Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,056 Posts
What Mo said.

I had a '98 Honda VFR that was fine with E10, so your Ducatis MIGHT be OK, just based on age.
Plastic tanks don't seem to like it, not sure if you have one of those.
Anyway, no definite answer from me, sorry.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
26,095 Posts
I don't touch the shit if I can help it at all. If I can't I only put enough in to get me somewhere where I can avoid the shit again. It's pure shit. So sorry you will have to deal with that shit now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
Still not a chemist, but the stuff is evil.

It stays volatile a total of maybe 2-4 weeks, wreaks havoc on rubber and plastic components and the water it attracts corrodes plated parts, especially those having zinc plating, which is basically everything these days since cadmium has been outlawed with it being a heavy metal. It will swell plastic tanks if left in them too long. Even if you drain the carbs, the crap from it dissolving everything it touches - especially rubber fuel lines - and the particles from corrosion plug up tiny pilot jets just from the surface tension of the gas stuck in the openings. My Mikuni BDST38's hate the stuff although my DelOrto's seem to deal with it a bit better. I have also had the experience on a DelOrto where the miserable stuff ate through a seam on a float - causing it to no longer to be a "float"- with the result of gas filling the crankcase. Oh yeah, the petcocks were "off", but the old Ducati petcocks A) suck and B) the stuff ate the seals. Care to hear more, perhaps with my old Porsches? I could go on and on.

My procedure is to use No-E gas whenever possible but, even then, I treat it with Stabil and a neutralizer and drain the tanks on my bikes after each ride. Carbs, too, on my older bikes. Interestingly, the injected bikes do not seem to have much a problem with this crap, but I still follow my procedure in any case. Carb bikes? Good luck.

The stuff is evil.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
377 Posts
One more comment.

If you think you're doing good for the environment by using this shit, think again. E-gas has a lot less energy per gallon in the form of BTU so now it takes more of this crap to go the same distance. But you just feel better doing it. In Physicsland, you don't get something for nothing. Sorry.

Still not a chemist.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,731 Posts
Welcome! The FI bike, no problem to minimal yearly maintenance items. The old carbie, now you got something to keep an eye on unless you ride it like you stole everyday, but then your biggest problem won't be the E10!

But yeah, two,three weeks in the shed between rides and you better put something in the tank to deal with the water - because of the the Green Isle temps/humidity the corn is going to drop out as water; Seafoam - that's available there, yes? Lucas? Stabil is ok too but better to ride the tits off off it as often as the Guarda will let you get away with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks

The monster is the daily commuter, and I do drive it like I stole it lol, very few Gardai at 0630 am

The proposal for E10 here is to reduce emissions, its the only card our government has to play, in meeting EU policy (currently its E5 here)

The hygroscopic properties of ethanol is what worries me, might look into those fuel stabilisers and the availability here

Was also looking at using water to remove the ethanol but the base blend is only 85 mon and the 10% ethanol brings it up to your 91 pump gas

Only 91 pump gas is available in Ireland, I was hoping they would mix the ethanol with the current base blend and bring it up to a 93 pump gas but the octane number is what defines the cost of excise duty

No company will put 93 pump on their forecourt due to fear of its price point





Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,731 Posts
...Was also looking at using water to remove the ethanol but the base blend is only 85 mon and the 10% ethanol brings it up to your 91 pump gas
That seems self defeating. It's not the Ethanol that is the problem, it's that the Ethanol "attracts" water, and the water is what makes the mess of everything. Ethanol doesn't make the poly fuel tanks swell, it's the water that the Ethanol attracts that makes the poly tanks swell (for example).

See what I mean?

Look into the StaBil 360 Marine. (quoting their webpage) "STA-BIL 360° MARINE offers comprehensive protection by releasing a microscopic corrosion preventing vapor inside the fuel system that coats ALL metals parts, including the fuel tank, fuel sending unit, valves, carburetor, fuel injectors and intake manifold. It’s like fogging oil for your entire fuel system, offering “360 degrees” of corrosion protection and is safe to use in all types of gasoline – from ethanol-free fuel to E85." (end quote).

Ethanol added to gasoline is all feel-good whitewash to make the comfortably numb feel like they're saving the planet. Just another scheme to make billions of munny.

You're best off enjoying these internal combustion engine powered motorcycles all we can, while we still can. Once gasoline is taxed out of reach for most people (at $10 .. $15 .. $20 per gallon) the joyful experience we've all known will fade to black. I've owned motorcycles that seem like they're powered by sewing machine motors (inline 4s with stock exhaust) ... I don't enjoy that experience anywhere near as much as I enjoy the thrill of the ~vroom!~ of truly man-sized hairy chested engines propelling me forward.

There is a song by the band "Rush" called Red Barchetta. There is a stanza in the song that depicts the experience to a "T" ...

Wind in my hair.
Shifting and drifting.
Mechanical music.
Adrenaline surge.

Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware.






That's livin, brothers !!!!






.
 

·
Come in Spinner :)
Joined
·
7,547 Posts
The answer to this is in two parts.
First part is that oil and water don't mix... period.

Ethanol is water based and petrol is oil based.. have a real good think about that because that's what these pricks are mixing together and forcing us to fill our tanks with.

So how do the oil companies achieve the blend?
They use a catalyst and from past experience with speedway fuel (methanol)
the catalyst they use is....Acetone... at 6% and that's the bugger that causes the issues with plastics, diaphrams, plastic and glass fiber fuel tanks.
The water is just a secondary issue when fuel evaporates in carby bowls over time and leaves water (and other unburnable additives) behind.
That's why injection systems are far less affected as they are sealed and under residual pressure at rest so the fuel can't evaporate in the system leaving the water and crap behind.
The tank is another matter but keeping it full helps a lot.

I have 4 carby bikes that get used in rotation about once a month so I turn the fuel taps off and run the carbys dry after a run and add a tiny amount of two stroke oil to the fuel (0.1%) to help coat the inside surfaces, floats, jets and needles with a protective film when they are not running.

Fwiw plastic fuel tanks are made from these five different materials: high density polyethylene (HDPE), polypropylene (PP), regrind plastic (recycled polyethylene), a plastic adhesive or ethyl vinyl alcohol (EVOH) and all of these absorb water at various rates.

I make plastic components that live in automotive cooling systems and they have to have a growth allowance built in to compensate for their size increase over time due to water absorption.
It's a pity motorcycle designers were ignorant of this fact when they made plastic tanks for bikes and fitted close fitting covers.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top