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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Well my fellow Duc owning brothers.. here's the long awaited follow-up and conclusion to my recent post.. Ducati NA: Worst Customer Service I've Ever Seen : Part 1

You can re-read the original post to get the gist of things if you suffer from ADD or just missed it... Just after the post, I heard from Michael Lock.. CEO of Ducati NA. He received my letter concerning my fogging dash problem which featured a play-by-play weepy report of what his customer service rep had told me. He said he was "shocked" to hear it and that he would speak to both her and his entire customer service team and then get back with me.. (I didn't ask him if he meant "truly surprised" or the feigned "shocked" like Louis in Casablanca). His concern sounded promising. He was on the road when he emailed me and he had mentioned that he had actually seen my original post here and at 2 other chat sites.. He was NOT happy. He told me he wished that I had waited to speak with him before posting. I can certainly understand that, but I also added that if MY customer service person had told one of our customers what HIS customer service person had told me.. I would EXPECT to see post(s) like mine all over the www. and that he should look elsewhere for a place to lay the blame. He told me he'd contact me in 2-3 days after he spoke to all the parties involved. Fair enough.

The sun crossed the sky 4 times... then I received a well written long reply from Tony Munoz.. Customer Service Manager for Ducati NA... Apparently he was handed off my complaint from Mr. Lock. He was "concerned" that I had "misinterpreted" the conversation from the original customer service rep. Hmm... misinterpreted.

After reading the multi paragraph letter from Tony, then running it through a SKIPJACK cryptographic algorithm developed by the NSA to unlock encrypted communication, I deciphered the following two truths that apparently Ducati NA is incapable of saying in simple terms to the public..

A. There is no fix for the fogging dash problem.
B. We apologize.

While I will NOT post Mr. Munoz's reply to me as it just between me and him.. I will post his explanation of the dash issue. " the dashboard display on your 1098 is vented to atmosphere. The dashboard has been specifically designed to be sealed and waterproof, while still allowing ventilation in order to equalize internal and external pressure. As a result of this design element it is possible for condensation to form on the inner surface of the display under certain environmental conditions, such as high humidity environments or rapid changes in temperature. The condensation has no long term effect on the display unit, and the condensation will dissipate as the inner temperature of the display rises. This is a normal function of the display unit, therefore, replacing the display will not alleviate this condition."

He "inferred" that should I move to a drier climate such as..oh.. Death Valley or.. Casablanca ...the fogging issue would disappear. Fair enough...

What really gets my panties in a wad is.... if someone had just been honest with me up front and told me the truth.. that there is no fix... I would have just stopped whining and learned to live with it. Hell.. I'm used to living with design flaws as I also own a BMW.. Otherwise I love the Ducati. What is it with these huge companies.. or politicians? The words " I apologize" just do NOT seem to be in their vocabulary. Do they think it denotes weakness? Wouldn't it be refreshing if just someone stood up in front of us all and said... "we're sorry."

OK.. so there is no fix...What now? I asked them if there is anything they could or would offer me in lieu of compensation? Court side Tickets to the US Open Final? a deal on an Ohlins upgrade? a jacket? key chain? a form letter telling me how much I'm appreciated as a customer? ALL suggestions cheaper than (1) $1400 new dash.... Mr Munoz actually was kind enough to send me a "care package" that actually included a key chain, a form letter telling me how much I'm appreciated as a customer, and a few incidental goodies left over from their events totaling around $70. My buddy had a similarly small problem with his BMW and the Germans sent him a freakin' Dainese leather jacket . O, well. It was kind of Mr. Munoz to offer something... I guess. If anyone wants a RED Ducati tee in XXL PM me... I'll sell it cheap.

So my friends... this kinda brings this weepy story to an end.. Hope I didn't come off as just another loon with an angry keyboard. My purpose of all this wasn't to rip Ducati per se as I LOVE what they are doing for us enthusiasts and I love my 1098..I'm just sick and tired of getting everything EXCEPT the truth. I hope I didn't get Rachel (the CS rep) fired. She seemed like a very nice young lady..

PS. One positive thing may come out of all this. The next time I get pulled over for speeding and the trooper asks me " Do you know how fast you were going".. I can honestly say.. "I have no idea officer.. I'm riding a Ducati.".. and I can actually point to my dash and prove it. Might just get me out of a little trouble.

 

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If your dash is like my ST's, there is a vented cap on the back. This helps to let the unit equalize the air inside and out. Ducati should have sealed the unit, but the real problem is the case has no weatherstripping.

You can open the case with a spudger (google it) or a flat blade screwdriver, but the spudger won't mar the case. There are quite a few latches that you have to undo to open it. Once open, let it dry out inside for a couple of days. Then reassemble with RTV sealant around the case halves and a blob on the holes for the bolts. Optionally you could seal the vent as well and pigtail connector. I plan to also glue in some dessicant tubes (that absorb moisture) as well to control this later.

It's not ideal but I can live with fixing Ducati's mistakes in order to have such a fun bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
If it was that easy.. a ton of people wouldn't be complaining. The dashes are nothing alike, unfortunately.

If your dash is like my ST's, there is a vented cap on the back. This helps to let the unit equalize the air inside and out. Ducati should have sealed the unit, but the real problem is the case has no weatherstripping.
 

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Harley fuel guages condensate up all the time ..I was told about it day one,,, Just lived with it, It is being lied to what irks some of us,,,

If it was the worst customer service,,,,They would not have got back to you,,, Go have a ball on your bike ,,Don't wash it
 

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I am not sure if you know this or not but on the Multistrada 1000 at least the reason for the "venting" dash is simple; the air pressure sensor is built in the dash. May be that is the way all Ducati dashes are. Why put a sensor in the dash, I don't know especially when it could have been mounted right next to lets say the air temp sensor on the bike. That is also part of the reason that when your dash craps out, the bike may refuse to run as it is an important sensor input to the ECU.

I is clearly a design mistake to put it politely. I am not sure there is every going to be a solution for it.

As far as customer services is concerned, I applaud you for pushing it this far and so professionally. Like you, I wish they would just come out and say look we know we made a mistake and this is how we are going to address it, even if its on future bikes, etc.
 

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So, what is the condensation, happening over and over, going to do to the electronics? How come Honda, Aprilia, KTM, Yamaha, BMW and everyone else can make a guage cluster that won't fog, but Ducati can't, for about 25% more money than the others?
 

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So, what is the condensation, happening over and over, going to do to the electronics? How come Honda, Aprilia, KTM, Yamaha, BMW and everyone else can make a guage cluster that won't fog, but Ducati can't, for about 25% more money than the others?
fwiw , my 2005 kawasaki z developed a foggy/mildewed rpm counter . the whole instrument assy was replaced under warranty after many a discussion with kawasaki reps .
 

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So, what is the condensation, happening over and over, going to do to the electronics? How come Honda, Aprilia, KTM, Yamaha, BMW and everyone else can make a guage cluster that won't fog, but Ducati can't, for about 25% more money than the others?
Not true, I've owned these bikes and they all had the fogging dash in some form or another:

2006 BMW K1200S
2008 KTM 690SMC
2008 KTM Superduke R

Fwiw I let my dealer take care of issues and I've been lucky so far. Never had to deal directly with DNA...
 

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I am not sure if you know this or not but on the Multistrada 1000 at least the reason for the "venting" dash is simple; the air pressure sensor is built in the dash. May be that is the way all Ducati dashes are. Why put a sensor in the dash, I don't know especially when it could have been mounted right next to lets say the air temp sensor on the bike. That is also part of the reason that when your dash craps out, the bike may refuse to run as it is an important sensor input to the ECU.
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I'm not sure but I believe you are right. Also I believe air temperature comes from the dash and well, apparantly humidity :) If this is the case sealing the unit might not be a good idea. Someone who's actually done it might comment if they have noticed any differences in the way the bike runs.

Under the right conditions all three of my bikes have done it.
 

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Not true, I've owned these bikes and they all had the fogging dash in some form or another:

2006 BMW K1200S
2008 KTM 690SMC
2008 KTM Superduke R

Fwiw I let my dealer take care of issues and I've been lucky so far. Never had to deal directly with DNA...
Triumph 955 Daytona, no issues.
Suzuki 1200 Bandit S, no issues.
Suzuki SV650, no issues.
CBR1000F, no issues.
BMW K100, no issues.
CBR900RR, no issues.
Monster S4, as of yet, no issues.
A whole bunch of old Honda F models (900's mostly), no issues.
Various Kawasakis, no issues.
Suzuki GS1000E, 2 of them, no issues. GS1100E, no issues.

Old Yamaha XS650 twin, they filled up with water.

Old Triumph Bonnevilles, all kinds of issues with the guages, they eventually just broke the needles off at the stops and spun around and around.

There has been a bunch more, but they are mostly forgettable.

For the most part, most of the bikes I had didn't have any issues with fogging or condensation in the guages. I believe that the technology has come far enough to fix that problem.
 

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I'm not sure but I believe you are right. Also I believe air temperature comes from the dash and well, apparantly humidity :) If this is the case sealing the unit might not be a good idea. Someone who's actually done it might comment if they have noticed any differences in the way the bike runs.

Under the right conditions all three of my bikes have done it.
Sorry I did not provide source of my comment. It may be different for the other Ducatis but doesn't appear to be.

From the Ducati Multistrada 1000DS Service Manual: Section M1, page 7, 3rd paragraph.

The engine control system (ignition - injection) uses a set of sensors to correct carburetion depending on air pressure, air temperature and engine loading. An absolute pressure sensor incorporated in the instrument panel and an air temperature sensor (7) mounted to the upper left fairing measure atmospheric pressure and outer air temperature, respectively. These values are then sent to the CPU - via CAN line - for necessary correction of injected fuel if riding on variable sea-level roads
 

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Some lady from DNA's Customer DisService Department told me to pry it open and use an anti fogging agent such as what scuba divers use on their masks. I didn't even get a keychain. Ducati's quality (excluding the engine) and customer service (excluding the guy who does all my recalls) has plummeted...but my butt don't like rice.
 

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Sorry I did not provide source of my comment. It may be different for the other Ducatis but doesn't appear to be.

From the Ducati Multistrada 1000DS Service Manual: Section M1, page 7, 3rd paragraph.

The engine control system (ignition - injection) uses a set of sensors to correct carburetion depending on air pressure, air temperature and engine loading. An absolute pressure sensor incorporated in the instrument panel and an air temperature sensor (7) mounted to the upper left fairing measure atmospheric pressure and outer air temperature, respectively. These values are then sent to the CPU - via CAN line - for necessary correction of injected fuel if riding on variable sea-level roads
Putting the sensor in the dash has got to be one of the most boneheaded design decisions I have heard.

What a bunch of geniuses. Purposely exposing the LCD and circuit board to the elements is just asking for corrosion. The fogging is just an annoyance.

Someone needs to come up with a sensor pack that piggybacks onto the dash connector so they can be relocated and the dash can be sealed.

Every time I run up against an electrical / electronic issue on these bikes, I think that MM is out of its mind and that they must have taken the lowest bidder to build their components.

I also see that they supply dashes for VW / Audi. That makes sense with all of the failed Audi dashes that went on a while back.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
That was tried on mine by the local dealer.. didn't work.. stupid idea to begin with. Surprised they didn't advise a voodoo shaman to cast out the evil spirits in the dash...

Some lady from DNA's Customer DisService Department told me to pry it open and use an anti fogging agent such as what scuba divers use on their masks. I didn't even get a keychain. Ducati's quality (excluding the engine) and customer service (excluding the guy who does all my recalls) has plummeted...but my butt don't like rice.
 

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So, what is the condensation, happening over and over, going to do to the electronics? How come Honda, Aprilia, KTM, Yamaha, BMW and everyone else can make a guage cluster that won't fog, but Ducati can't, for about 25% more money than the others?
: ) this reminds me of the time I rode my Duc in the rain to the dealers and the tech said “I can’t believe you rode you Ducati in the rain, do you know how many things can go wrong???” Try combining this with customer support which sucks from DNA … I feel sorry for Ducati SPA.
 

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You guys sure do love to hate your motorcycles and their makers.
 

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You guys sure do love to hate your motorcycles and their makers.
Don't confuse feelings for the bike or the manufacturer with feelings for the manufacturer's representatives in North America. 2 different issues, though I can see how dealing with DNA could turn one totally off Ducati, but the same can be said for all other manufacturer's and the effect their representatives have on customers, keeping in mind some customers act like terds, (not in this case). I dislike immensely Yamaha Canada because of the way I was treated by them, but I still like some Yamaha motorcycles even if I may never buy another one.
 
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