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Hi everyone,



I am going to start from the start on this one which makes a little bit of long post but i dont want to miss anything relevent.



I bought an 09 Ducati 1198s Corse last year. It was running well and i was going to take it on a european tour with a few mates but had problems early on just before we got on the eurotunnel we stopped for fuel and I must not have put the bike on the stand properly as when i came out the petrol station from paying the bike was on its side. This damaged the stand sensor which then meant the bike kept thinking the stand was down when it wasnt. This caused no end of issues with the repetative stop, start, on again, off again during the eurotunnel. We arrived in Belgium that night and i disconnected the sensor and put it in the position where the stand was up hoping the issue was caused by the sensor being moved back and forth and leaving it in the same position would provide a short term solution. It didnt. End result was that it ended up causing the bike to have a major issue while riding through Luxembourg resulting in a broken outlet cam in the vertical head which seized the engine. I flew home and the bike was trailered back by my recovery company.



On return I found a completed used head at less that a fifth of the cost of a new one and had the old head taken apart, replacement parts swapped out, everything else completely stripped and measured to check still within tolerances and every part of both heads, cylinders etc etc inspected. Side stand sensor replaced, new belts, everything else necessary checked and replaced. Wasnt a cheap bill.



Bike then sat in the garage for a bit as it was winter by the time it was finished and while i am sure you guys will give stick for it, i am a summer only riding pansy.



I then took it out about a month ago. The first time i tried i got it out the garage and noticed the trickle charger was showing it was disconnected (obvious thoughts of swaering going through my head and presuming i have knocked it at some point and its come loose) so I tried to start it and it wouldnt start (not to much surprise), back in the garage and back on charge. The next day took the bike out the garage and started fine but while out riding the bike stalled when i dropped down to first gear for a slow round about about ten minutes down the road. Tried to get it started again but battery seemed dead. Ended up being trailered home. When i got it home i ordered a new battery as i presumed that not having it on charge while it wasnt being ridden plus all the issues the led up to the head breaking had killed the battery. So got a new one delivered to me, put it on charge then the following weekend i had time to get back in the garage and try starting the bike again. It would start but wouldnt idle without me adding throttle. Called the garage that did the work and was advised to look at the idle screw and airscrews on the throttlebodies. Tried adjusting them but it seemed to get worse and worse until the bike wouldnt start at all. Called the garage and agreed they would come and pickup the bike to take a look.



Once at the garage they diagnosed it and said it was the injectors, one wasnt putting out any fuel and one was bearly working so two replacement injectors were ordered and fitted.



Bike now back home again I decided to go out last weekend, this time i managed to get five minutes further than i previously had before stalling on another round about. Tried starting the bike but battery sounded dead. Got my misses to bring out a jump starter to me and the bike started fine (note that it took her about half am hour between stalling and using the jump starter). When i got the bike home i started presuming that there was an issue with the stator or rectifier that meant it wasnt charging while riding and that the stall was caused by the battery being low. I then did all the tests to both (stator resistant tests across all three phases, continuity with ground test, ac voltage output at different rpms, voltage into the rectifier, voltage out the rectified, voltage of battery with the bike off, voltage of battery with ignition on, voltage or battery with bike started) and everything checks out correctly. During the tests i noticed that the bike would sometimes stall while on idle. Due to this i did some tests on the airscrews on the throttlebody and got it set so that it wouldnt stall on idle anymore.

Took the bike out today and decided to ride it at high revs, trying not to let it fall under 5krpm as much as i possibly could. I got a lot further than previously, rode up to the next city which has a few round abouts on the way to it (all single carriageway A roads) and then at the city there is a big round about with traffic lights. There is a 40 mph limit coming up to the big round about so was sat at 40mph with revs at just over 5krpm on the way to it, had to stop at the traffic lights 3 times as i went round the round about and the bike didnt stall. Starting feeling confident and then as soon as i got to the first round about after going back through the 40mph zone it stalled. I had put my jump pack in a backpack this time so tried jumping the bike, it still wouldnt start so left it a little while on the jump pack and tried again, still wouldnt start but was definately trying. Left a bit more time and then tried again and it started but stalled straight away. Tried again and this time gave it a little throttle and it started, kept the throttle on for maybe 30 seconds and then let off and it idled fine. Got everything back in the backpack, helmet on, gloves on, back on the bike and rode home.

When i got home i turned it off, gave it 10 seconds and then tried to start it again, sounded like battery way dead. Started thinking about using the other old battery to see if it made any difference or if the problems remained the same so put it on charge and just wheeled the bike into the garage. Started thinking about how it took a bit of time to start after it stalled and i ended up going back into the garage to try and start it. This was a little while after I had been home (leathers off and away, coffee in hand). Opened the garage door, turned on the ignition, bike had cooled down to about 50 degrees, tried to start it and it started! It hadnt been on charge or had any power going into it since i had stopped.

Obviously i was very confused as i had tried to start it as soon as i had turned it off and it sounded like the battery was dead and now a short time afterwards it starts fine! So i leave it to see what happens and it stalls at exactly the time it hits 100 degrees. Turn ignition off, turn it back on again, temp now at 102 degress and i try and start it and it will not start, tries (better than when i first stopped from a turn over point of view but will not start). I leave the ignition on and wait until it gets down to 95 degrees and try to start the bike and it starts. I leave it to get hotter again but it stalls shortly after (i dont think it had hit 100 degrees yet). So i think i'll leave it to cool down a bit more, go inside to get a fresh coffee and speak to the misses for a minute. Come back out, its cooled down to 96 degrees so i wait until its 95 and then start it again. Starts fine. Leave it to heat up, get to 108 degrees, turn the bike off. Try and start it again but this time it starts fine. Give it a minute, turn it off, give it another minute, try starting it again (103 degrees) and it starts fine. Getting confused now as complete lack of consistancy here. Take the dog for a walk, come back, bike is at 40 degrees (still not been on charge), try starting it and it doesnt start instantly but does start on the second go.

I told you this was going to be a long post!

I am at a bit of a loss, i am thinking that maybe something isnt right due to the new head and injectors and it needs a TPS reset or maybe the throttlebodies balancing, or just because its got new bits (to this bike) its still settling in (i think i've done 40 miles since the replacement head) or is this electrical (but why it will start better when cooled down a little without being charged).

Hoping you masterminds can give me some ideas!

Cheers,

Scott
 

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My first thought is take it back to the shop that repaired the engine, changed the head, and injectors. From what I understand, it has not worked correctly since they worked on it.
I have seen coils and electronic ignition modules that only fail when they get hot, but that’s pretty rare occurrence. Would be helpful if you have a volt meter to confirm when it has died and the battery seams dead, what is the voltage? It does not sound like it’s a low voltage issue, but a quick test can rule that out before you continue down the rabbit hole.
 
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Discussion Starter #4
reset TPS ?
Its one of the things i was considering. I dont have the equipment to do this but the workshop i have used is also unlikely to have done this when doing the rebuild (thats a guess, not a fact).

My thinking is if it would be normal after such a rebuild to:
1) Reset TPS?
2) Sync the throttle bodies?
3) Require a remap (its got an aftermarket exhaust so i presume it was already remapped to allow for this)?

While i am not sure my usual workshop have everything needed for the above (certainly not point 3) there is a workshop about an hour away from me that is a bike performance workshop and lists all this type of thing as usual for them (they used to run a BSB team).

I am going to do a couple of tests this weekend including seeing the voltage once the bike has stalled (as TiDuc said above) and also trying the other battery I had (the one i replaced when my injectors bust and i bought a new battery due to the initial symptoms). This seems to be the last things i can do myself. I am a little adverse to taking it back to the garage as the parts used for the rebuild werent brand new parts and i am not sure if this could be something electronic (TPS or other sensors feeding into the ECU/stepper motor) or power related.
 

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Hi. Two things come to mind. I had kind of same thing happening few years ago when my fuel filter was clogged. Bike run fine at lower revs but when tried to accelerate it run out of fuel and died. Then when starting again it run fine for little while but fuel pump could not deliver enough fuel for higher revs. Not quite same but something to think. Also fuel pump could go bad and stop working when gets hot. You could put t piece to fuel line and try to measure fuel pressure.
Secondly for example bad crank position sensor could act like that. When it gets hot it loses connection and does not work and when gets cold works again. Maybe move it little closer to flywheel and try again?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi. Two things come to mind. I had kind of same thing happening few years ago when my fuel filter was clogged. Bike run fine at lower revs but when tried to accelerate it run out of fuel and died. Then when starting again it run fine for little while but fuel pump could not deliver enough fuel for higher revs. Not quite same but something to think. Also fuel pump could go bad and stop working when gets hot. You could put t piece to fuel line and try to measure fuel pressure.
Secondly for example bad crank position sensor could act like that. When it gets hot it loses connection and does not work and when gets cold works again. Maybe move it little closer to flywheel and try again?
Its an interesting point, it doesnt feel like it would be fuel filter due to the lack of consistancy but i certainly think fueling could be a possibility. I was hoping to get out earlier than this weekend to do some further testing but work is quite busy and the weather isnt what i would want to go out in knowing i am very likely to breakdown (in fact i need to breakdown to do some of the tests!)
 

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When you say sound like battery is weak when trying to restart and you’ve stumbled across a temperature consistency is there a chance the engine coolant temperature sensor could be buggered and over fueling
the bike as it thinks it’s cooler than what you see on the dash?
So technically if the bike is 100 degrees centigrade on the dash but the ect is reporting to the ecu that it thinks the bike is say 20 degrees centigrade it will over fuel as it thinks it’s cold.
This will also give the feeling of a weak battery due to the cylinders being full of fuel and hydro locking.
Does it smoke black smoke when it eventually fires, Does it run lumpy when warmed up and does it smell of fuel at all?
Another option could be an atmospheric pressure sensor reading faulty which would make the bike believe it’s closer to sea level or higher (depends which way it’s failed)
The barometric sensor (if it has one on that bike?) can cause all sorts of problems.
Please don’t shoot the messenger as I’m just trying to add some logic to predicament.
Cheers
 

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Also; if it is over fuelling then caution is needed as there’s a chance it will wash the cylinder bores with petrol and your oil sump will start to fill with petrol.
Worth checking if your oil level is rising in the sight glass.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
When you say sound like battery is weak when trying to restart and you’ve stumbled across a temperature consistency is there a chance the engine coolant temperature sensor could be buggered and over fueling
the bike as it thinks it’s cooler than what you see on the dash?
So technically if the bike is 100 degrees centigrade on the dash but the ect is reporting to the ecu that it thinks the bike is say 20 degrees centigrade it will over fuel as it thinks it’s cold.
This will also give the feeling of a weak battery due to the cylinders being full of fuel and hydro locking.
Does it smoke black smoke when it eventually fires, Does it run lumpy when warmed up and does it smell of fuel at all?
Another option could be an atmospheric pressure sensor reading faulty which would make the bike believe it’s closer to sea level or higher (depends which way it’s failed)
The barometric sensor (if it has one on that bike?) can cause all sorts of problems.
Please don’t shoot the messenger as I’m just trying to add some logic to predicament.
Cheers
Definately has a temperature inconsistancy!

What i am not sure of with this is that i wouldnt expect an overfuel to cause it to stall at low rpm (when going over a round about)?

I havent noticed it smoking when started or running lumpy, no idea if it has a barometric sensor or not, will try google or hope someone might chime in on the thread about it or not. Will check the oil level.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The weather just cleared up a bit and i had a couple of hours spare from work so thought i would take the bike out for some tests but think i may have had a eurika moment.

So i went to the garage, turned the ignition on, checked the battery voltage (12.5v) on the digital display (it has a voltage reading in the menu) and tried to start the bike, after a little hesitancy it started. I needed to put my sliders back on and some of the screws for the fairing which i had left off after the last testing that i had been doing and so left it idling while i did that.

After putting most of them back i looked up and saw the voltage had spiked up to 15.5v and was creeping upwards, as i watched the display it got to 16v and the screen started flickering and showing blank. Clearly this high voltage was causing issues. I turned the bike off, came back inside and wrote this.

I am presuming that the RR should keep the voltage lower than this and this is the sign of a failing RR? This makes me wonder if the issues i have up to now has been the RR slowly starting to fail and now its got to the point it really is failing?
 

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Scott,
Sounds like the RR is toast to me. Does your bike come with a OEM mosfet regulator (less prone to failure) or is it still a conventional one? Especially when you have a Li-Ion battery too high a voltage really kills the battery. 16 Volts is way too high, looks like a broken RR.
 

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Scott,
Sounds like the RR is toast to me. Does your bike come with a OEM mosfet regulator (less prone to failure) or is it still a conventional one? Especially when you have a Li-Ion battery too high a voltage really kills the battery. 16 Volts is way too high, looks like a broken RR.
Quick answer is that i dont know if its a MOSFET one, from the use of google and this forum though it would appear it isnt. As it seems i am going to replace it i would definately replace with a MOSFET one.
 

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Hope that’s your fault mate! Really frustrating when you have a problem like yours cos sometimes you wish it would just break down and be done with it so that you can start from scratch.
Just touching back on what I said the other day where you asked if over fuelling could make it stall. The answer is yes because remember what it was like when you were younger in your grandads mini and he left the choke on too long, the car would hunt then eventually conk out due to excess fuel going in the cylinders.
That’s what my grandad used to do anyway lol.
Hope you’ve found the problem mate and there is a write up on ducatiforum Uk somewhere on how to fit the mosfet RR.
Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hope that’s your fault mate! Really frustrating when you have a problem like yours cos sometimes you wish it would just break down and be done with it so that you can start from scratch.
Just touching back on what I said the other day where you asked if over fuelling could make it stall. The answer is yes because remember what it was like when you were younger in your grandads mini and he left the choke on too long, the car would hunt then eventually conk out due to excess fuel going in the cylinders.
That’s what my grandad used to do anyway lol.
Hope you’ve found the problem mate and there is a write up on ducatiforum Uk somewhere on how to fit the mosfet RR.
Cheers
Ahh, yes, doesnt make sense!

Fingers crossed for both the fault, the parts coming quickly and having a quiet week at work to get it done and go for a ride!
 

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So a bit of an update, since my last post I established the 1198 didnt come with a MOSFET RR but the new V4 panigale does and there is a triumph cable which connects the V4 RR connections to the standard harness. I did need to make up an adapter plate but luckily found a design on a different forum and copied that with some scrap sheet metal I had laying around.

Took the bike out today as a first test and the good news is that i stalled less and when i did stall the battery wasnt flat. The stalling was when the bike got hot and i was in traffic, while moving the bike never stalled. This makes me think that I've probably solved the issues with the bike stalling while going over roundabouts and then the battery being dead (RR not putting anything into the battery meant that when the bike needed some help from the battery [IE going over a roundabout slowly and at low revs] there wasnt anything there) but there now seesm to be a remaining issue about it stalling while hot.

So the explaination is that I live close to the exit of our village which has an A road going round it. If at the exit i turn left i go to my local petrol station, if i turn right i head towards the roads i normally go for a blast on. Today i needed fuel so turned left but noticed lots of backed up stationary traffic to the right (which is very unusual). Went and got fuel, came back, went past my turning and hit a temporary traffic light. Popped it into neutral as i was rolling towards it and then kept the throttle open a bit (lets say about 2k-2.5k rpm) until the light went green. All good. Rode up to the next city along the route, turned around and came back, roads were a bit quiet so the round abouts i had previously stalled on i was able to go over quicker than before (second gear rather than first) but those that i did have to drop down to first for were fine. One thing i did notice was that there was a real lack of throttle response on anything except for small throttle twists. When i was behind a car and had a clear road if i pulled out and gave it a good twist the bike seemed to rev higher before it actually did any accelerating.

Got back to the queue for the traffic lights on the way back and this queue was way longer. Popped it into neutral, rolled up to the back of the queue, decided i didnt want to wait that long so put it back in first and slowly made my way past the queue, ducking in behind a car when i got close to the lights and cars starting coming the other way. Got it in neutral and let it idle, it stalled after a short time. Swear words going through my mind I tried to start the bike (good thing was that battery wasnt flat) and it started, idled for a few seconds and then stalled. I waited until the cars started moving, started the bike, quickly got it in gear and started moving forward but was stopped about five cars in front of the lights. Sat there a few seconds and the bike stalled. Then i had a really difficult time starting it, when then took too much charge out the battery but luckily i had my jump pack in my bag so quickly jump started the bike but it then stalled while i was getting everything back in my bag but i carried on, threw everything in the bag and luckily it started again, was the last person to get through the (now red) light tailgating the final car as I wasnt going to wait any longer.

Got back home, let it idle for a few seconds and then it stalled. I then tried a few tests with different settings on the air screws on the throttlebodies but the best result i could achieve was that it would take a few minutes before it would stall, i couldnt find any adjustments on the screws that resulted in the bike being able to idle at all temperatures. It always stalled when it got hot.

Any advise from here? I know hot idling seems to be a known and recurring problem with these bikes but interested in hearing anyone who had it and what fixed it and also if the poor throttle response is linked to it.
 
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