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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone here have experience setting up a 1098 for the track and chosen to both lengthen the swingarm and shorten the triple clamp offset? I have added a full centimeter to my stock swingarm by slotting the brake anchor. I think most of the longer arms are 15mm longer. It did keep the front tire down exiting turns. But - It ruined the exit. Turn in I got accustomed to but when you open the throttle to exit turn the bike goes straight. On the street wheeling out of turns is fun but you know its slower also the use of 200/60 tires is a desire, hence the thought of the upgrades.
magnesium-racing-mono-swingarm-ducati-848-1098-1198-2007-2013.jpg


I am aware of the various stock arms like the RS but I cannot confirm the actual length. If anyone has one please tell me total length from front to rear of casting on chain side. One seller in Japan had several and the stock and RS were exactly the same hence my desire to look to aftermarket.

If the triple tree is -29mm and the swingarm +15 that keeps the wheelbase closer to stock, regains steering speed and gives wheelie control. Is the change in trail more important? If you have ever ridden this configuration does this yield a more predictable slide or just wheelie control? Better turn in? Better full throttle exit? Or is it so minimal the extra $5000.00 dollars just is not worth it?
 

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Evening 96c. Please don’t take this the wrong way. Are you riding your bike as fast as others on the same machinery? If not then I wouldn’t spend a single cent on anything more than lessons and tyres. By the very fact that you ask what parts will do to your bike tells me you have no idea on what the perceived shortcomings of your bike are. Ride style and the size of your balls and then the ability to understand the interrelationships between traction (meaning drive and braking) AND your ability to know what speed you are doing relative to traction. When you truly understand this then learn what slows you down mentally and work on that. Below is my favourite lesson on what you need to go fast. And yes, I’ve set up and ridden more than a few 10-11 S and R’s for people’s track bikes.
 

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Amen. Throwing parts at your bike will only get you more lost in space. Learn to set up what you have. In the simplest of terms the front end of your bike has total control on corner entry. The rear of the bike controls corner exit.

If you’re oversteering like you describe forget the front end and work on the back. For oversteer concentrate on raising the rear ride height with shock length or spring preload or adding compression damping and if you have an adjustable swing arm mount move the pivot point to increase anti-squat.

A little bit goes a long way. Two or three clicks of compression or 5mm of ride hight can make all the difference. And of course whenever you make a change keep notes so you know where your at.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Xracer and Duckman: Thank you for the excellent responses. I have the setup exactly as you describe. My turn in feels great and corner exit after getting the rear up enough
lets the bike rise without the understeer.

No question training and track time are more valuable than these parts without a specific performance need. When you look back at the setups in WSB these were considered mandatory. My experience has been after correct shock and springs. Lowering the front some and getting the rear up and keeping it up in the turn the bike is perfect with stock swingarm. However.

In order to get slicks on, my choices are drop to 180 or up to 200. The 200/60 means longer swing arm and longer swing arm without the triple clamp offset change tells me longer wheelbase and understeer. Lots of folks do make changes for change sake. That is not my goal. I do want to move to slicks.

As to my location in the pack - I am old so middle front on track and I have not been passed on the street in years. This is my first bike that ever responded to suspension tweaks rather than major changes.
 

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Then why did you say...

“...but when you open the throttle to exit turn the bike goes straight. “



If you just need room for bigger tires why didn’t you just ask people how do you make room for bigger tires????

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Discussion Starter #6
I LOVE THE VIDEO!
Especially the riders choices of track position at corner entry and how that leads to a pass on exit. That was fun...
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Then why did you say...

“...but when you open the throttle to exit turn the bike goes straight. “



If you just need room for bigger tires why didn’t you just ask people how do you make room for bigger tires????

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Exactly what you said. I don
Then why did you say...

“...but when you open the throttle to exit turn the bike goes straight. “



If you just need room for bigger tires why didn’t you just ask people how do you make room for bigger tires????

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Because when experimenting with the stock swing arm modified to get 10mm extra length the bike went to shit. That is how you make room for a slick. It will not clear a 200/60. Also as you and xracer pointed out - I do not understand the results of one change or the other vs both. Hence the deeper question and looking for a rider that has used both, even without the tire change or with the older slick sizes. Love your choice of visual aids... Just looked back i did state 200/60 was a goal...
 

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Ok, I don’t have any experience with the bike or parts you want. But if I understand you want to add the longer swing arm so you can run the larger diameter slick. But you’re afraid its going to make understeer exiting the corner an even bigger problem.

Forget trying to fix this problem by changing the offset on the front end. It won’t work. Only make the change to the rear first and sort that out using the setting changes I mentioned above. Also remember that the larger diameter rear tire will raise the rear ride height by half the increase in diameter of the different tires sizes.

Edit: in fact you have absolutely no idea what the chassis is going to do when you switch to the slicks! The slicks will be so incredibly different you will have absolutely no idea what you will need to do until you ride the bike with the slicks. I’ve never experienced anything that makes a bigger difference than switch to slicks.


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Discussion Starter #9
Agree completely... I will start with slicks in sizes that fit and have the extra 10mm to work with on the rear. In the mean time I will go back to the longer setup and try to tune it.

I still wonder why the triple clamp and longer swingarm are such sought after pieces. Were they trying to make it ride like a 998 when the trend began?

Thank you for your advice.
 

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Usually when you go to triple clamps with less offset it’s because you’ve increased steering head angle to make the bike turn faster and having less offset brings back the stability you loose in the process.


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Stock, these bikes rip at the track. Suspension setup properly with ok tires will get you around quickly. (848 needs a rear ride hight that can be adjusted) I've watched this forum and people at the track for 12+ years. I cannot speak to other makes and models, but for some reason there is need to throw equipment (expensive equipment) at the Ducati for faster lap times when it is just fine with what is delivered on the show room. I nearly took that bait years ago, but then having children took first place on funds. I found out that the more I rode (with limited funds), the more I knew The Time Machine, my ability, and choice tires, the faster I went.

The 996 still hangs with the 1000RR, 1199(R), 675(R), 600s, RSV4, an on, everywhere but the straits. My biggest mistake on learning was keeping the rear too stiff. It reduce my turn exit confidence b/c I couldn't get a good feel for the rear tire. Meanwhile, I run the font stiff so I brake hard and late. I trust the front end when it is planted and well compressed before the apex. On the street, the front end is less than confidence inspiring. It will fight you.

In short. Save your money for children.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I think I run my rear too stiff also but each time I lighten the rear I always lose that hard braking ability you mentioned. I also get a motor boat exit if corner has a hollow or a steep rise leaving it. Best motorcycle I have ever ridden. It even lets me complain about little things rather than who is going to build my chassis next time. Thanks for your input...
 

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I think I run my rear too stiff also but each time I lighten the rear I always lose that hard braking ability you mentioned. I also get a motor boat exit if corner has a hollow or a steep rise leaving it. Best motorcycle I have ever ridden. It even lets me complain about little things rather than who is going to build my chassis next time. Thanks for your input...
Your very own riding style is a big contributor to how a bike feels. A slow rider on a well setup bike will still be a slow rider. A fast rider can adapt to an ordinary bike to make it work and be faster than the slow rider on a good bike.
 

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Your very own riding style is a big contributor to how a bike feels. A slow rider on a well setup bike will still be a slow rider. A fast rider can adapt to an ordinary bike to make it work and be faster than the slow rider on a good bike.
And to expand on that thought a bike set up for a pro level rider is almost unridable by a beginner (not saying you are a beginner). My son and I ride at the track with a friend that’s our fastest local Pro. Up until this year he raced the 600 class in MotoAmerica. He and his dad are fantastic and try to help us as much as possible. But bike set up is like being on a different planet. He weighs 140 and I’m 185 and his bike is wayyyyyy to stiff for me (on the front, softer in the rear). My son is about 160 and he can’t even ride his bike.

I guess I’m saying don’t worry about what you read about. Make the bike work for whatever level you’re at.

But if you like buying cool shit and building cool bikes, hey, there’s nothing wrong with that. I like cool shit too. :)



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Setup that suspension and geometry. Stock, and fortunately the OEM spring rates fits me, I have a dead steady 100% predictable bike. Precise all of the time and that is how it should be. When it is not riding how I like, it's b/c I am tired and not the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Sorry I am southern too. It is where the rear is too soft and front rebound non existent. On exit the front end rises but the rear stays down "It is like a boat that won't plane off. " Think Harley with stock suspension.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
He weighs 140 and I’m 185 and his bike is wayyyyyy to stiff for me (on the front, softer in the rear). My son is about 160 and he can’t even ride his bike.
We use to call that "Riding the front wheel". Back before Brembo was everywhere and you could brake to the apex and instantly open throttle wide open . You had to brake early and hard. Pick a corner speed with all your weight forward and a little inside. Stand the bike up early open the throttle WAO and literally push the front tire like a plow. All your weight on the inside bar. I have heard that that is why its easier to slide the bike to the left. To the right your wrist is folded and limits the throttle. This new style of cornering with no bar pressure and your palm off the end of the bar requires so much setup like you said that is rider specific. This Ducati has given me a taste of higher corner speeds and less point and shoot. However I have never ridden anything that 3 turns out of rebound and less rear compression can mean it goes straight on cold tires. I love it but damn what a learning curve.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I run the font stiff so I brake hard and late. I trust the front end when it is planted and well compressed before the apex. On the street, the front end is less than confidence inspiring. It will fight you.
You hit on something there. Things can be set up with so little bar pressure that when it comes time to really counter steer and work body position that I am lazy and get surprised. I am also guilty of getting tired and coming into a corner with too high of a gear now that I have brakes and power. "It will fight you" Excellent point...
 
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