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I need some Help! I am trying to make a decision on another bike. I have had most sport bikes such as gsxr1k,etc. I currently have an 888 and recently picked up an 907ie but it is in need of a lot of work, so it will be a project for a while. So to my problem, I was out riding the 888 today, and love it but it is time to find something more for just going out for a ride. I am looking for something more comfortable with a more upright seat and a little lower pegs. The 907 seating seems more in the realm of what I am looking for. I have not riden any other bike of this type other then paso's. I would like to find something capable of pretty spirtited two riding as well as capable of a fair amount of bagage. So far I seem to be focasing my research on the ST, as well as the r and k bwm's but I just dont know much about this type of bikes. I know there are a lot of people on here that have both so I am hoping to get some options and maybe some other sugestions. One thing I might ad is I do like the power of a stronge engine.
Thank you!
 

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ST3 or Sprint ST

Get to your Duc dealer and spend some time seated on an ST3. If the position suits you, arrange a test ride. You may find the steering input a bit slow and heavy, this is EASILY corrected with an adjustable linkage, either fitted aftermarket on stock ST3 or fitted standard on the new ST3s. You can also accomplish the same by replacing the OEM Sachs-Boge damper with a Penske unit that offers integrated length adjustment. While the Duc power is very different than you are accustomed to from a Gixxer or even an 888, it is plentiful for any street situation and even suitable for spirited track days.

An alternative is the Triumph Sprint ST. Hand-peg-seat position is quite similar to the Ducati. The similarities pretty much end there. The Sprint has nearly the same low-end power, it however is smoother and continues to pull strong to about 9500 revs; the Ducati power really flattens out by 8500 revs. The Sprint has a very japanese sportbike turn-in feel. Its smooth and very forgiving, almost docile. The Ducati is more characterful (is that a word?). I suspect your more recent Ducati experiences will lead you to favor the ST3 but I'd suggest you also arrange a demo ride of the Sprint. They are both terrific sport-touring bikes.

Once you've experienced both the ST3 and Sprint ST, I really think any BMW is going to be a serious let down in character and feel...at least for someone with your recent biking experiences. The new K1200 motor is a beast in terms of power and it is silky smooth but unfortunately they are mounted to chassis that lacks the capability, feel and character of the Duc or Triumph. Take care.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Bigmac, Thanks for the reply.
Obviously I am preferantly to ducati. But have always thought the BMW's were pretty cool but never spent any time on them. As far as the ST3 goes, I do like how they look. I am very curious though how the 2v,3v and 4v compare. Is there that much difference in low and mid range torque between the 3valve and 4 valve. Was the 3valve motor made to just replace the 2 valve motor, or was it made to really made to be be the diffrence between the 2 valve and 4 valve?
 

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bigmac said:
An alternative is the Triumph Sprint ST.
I considered the Triumph Sprint ST and the Honda VFR 800 when looking for a replacement for Peking Duc, my late 02-ST4s. Neither one fit me like a glove the way the ST series does. Subjective? Very, which is why you should try test rides if possible. One thing that bothered me about both the Honda amd the Triumph is that neither comes with standard hardbags. Available hardbags, yes; but of the three, only the Ducati ST series can be loaded up in the showroom and ridden across country.
 

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See if you can find a left over ST4s!

Having owned a Boxer engined BMW (2003 R1100S), I can assure you that there is no comparison between the bikes. The Boxer engine should be in a tractor, not a motorcycle. You have to operate it below 4500 rpm or it will vibrate your fillings loose. If you ride a bike for the performance, handling, excitement that it gives you, the Ducati wins, hands down. The BMW will be boring by comparison, with little personality. Great finish, good engineering, but boring, nonetheless!
 

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I agree about what everybody says about the ST3s and ST4s. Also the windscreen is a little taller. But would anyone put the 1000DS Supersport in the mix. Seems like its not a terribly popular Ducati model but what does the group think?
 

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I'll go out on a limb and say that there probably isn't a huge difference between an ST2 and a 907. You'll get a bit more engine performance going to an ST3 and lot more engine on a ST4s. The St's will have the advantage of newer suspension, or better Ohlin suspension on the 3s and 4s and more available upgrades.
Of all the Pasos, the 907 is the one they got right, 17" rims, fuel injected, water cooled and a simpler 2V motor for more mid-range torque and less top end HP. The mirrors are almost useless and the original seat sucks but checkout a Corbin or Sargent. The Pasos are are entering their mid-life, not vintage status (yet) but not seen at every bike show either.
If you had both, they would capable of doing a lot tasks equally, but one just has 12 some-odd years of maturity. Keep the Paso, it's a under the radar sleeper.
 

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First of all......love thy 888. It is a magic machine and should be treasured. Though it is a bit jealous, it does not mind a bit of attention to other machines as long as you save your best dancing for her. She is a road dancing fool and loves the best roads in the best weather and you at your best abilities. Great, great machine.

Second Duc ? Well, I got an ST. I got one dirt cheap on E bay and had no idea I was going to like it so much. Perfect for hauling a lover with similar passions in life, but with the convenience of comfortable seating, and long long legs for high speed touring. Kick it up a few teeth on the rear sprocket and let that great Quattrovalvole engine roar. Plenty of beans for almost any rider and lovely suspension.

Or...get one of the two valve bikes. Great for spur of the instant rides. What ? Forget something at the store ? Toss a leg over the seat and hit the button. Wheely down to the groceria and back.

Budget is the big deal here. By something else, but dude....don't sell that red sex machine known as the 888.





Rlbol said:
I need some Help! I am trying to make a decision on another bike. I have had most sport bikes such as gsxr1k,etc. I currently have an 888 and recently picked up an 907ie but it is in need of a lot of work, so it will be a project for a while. So to my problem, I was out riding the 888 today, and love it but it is time to find something more for just going out for a ride. I am looking for something more comfortable with a more upright seat and a little lower pegs. The 907 seating seems more in the realm of what I am looking for. I have not riden any other bike of this type other then paso's. I would like to find something capable of pretty spirtited two riding as well as capable of a fair amount of bagage. So far I seem to be focasing my research on the ST, as well as the r and k bwm's but I just dont know much about this type of bikes. I know there are a lot of people on here that have both so I am hoping to get some options and maybe some other sugestions. One thing I might ad is I do like the power of a stronge engine.
Thank you!
 

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Rlbol said:
Sam do you have an st 2 or 3?
That is a picture of my ST3 in post #3..........
I did own a '00 ST2 before this '05 ST3.....
If you can afford it, get the ST3s, you won't be sorry!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
st2sam said:
That is a picture of my ST3 in post #3..........
I did own a '00 ST2 before this '05 ST3.....
If you can afford it, get the ST3s, you won't be sorry!!!
What do you think of the differences between the ST2 and ST3?
 

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Rlbol said:
What do you think of the differences between the ST2 and ST3?[/QUOTE
Big difference motor wise, suspension wise, the ST2 was better, get the ST3s..You will get *most* of the price difference between the 3 and the 3s back when you trade or sell.........
 

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I don't know how much engine you are looking for but the '05 ST3 I'm riding has plenty of grunt to spread the SEG on my face everytime I roll on it. Power wheelies are no problem - unless you get caught. I've heard comments that the 4 motor is only happy when being wrung out. If so it may not be a great choice round town. The 3 motor is pretty civil but even it is only happy north of 4000 RPM. Either way, it a Duc that is bred to run. I don't know how much practical difference the 4s or 3s wheels, swing arm, and suspension upgrades will make but the 3 handles every day riding duties superbly - very well planted regardless of mid corner upsets. Let's put it this way. For me the ST3 is so well planted and powerful the only way to really enjoy the bike is to break the law. Any one of the ST's obviously lean to the SPORT side of the equation. I guess the question of ST3 or ST4 really depends how much sport you are looking for. In the interest of fair and balanced if I wasn't on the Duc I'd be on either a VFR or Sprint ST - that is unless I simply followed where the boner was pointed and picked up the XB12R I've been lusting over.
 

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2dflyer's comments about the ST4s are way off...

so you can take them with a grain of salt. The ST4s'es motor will blow any ST3 away from 4K on up. People that know nothing about the bike say that because of the gearing being so ridiculously high on the bike. You have to gear the bike down to be able to appreciate the performance that the bike offers, as with the stock gearing the only time you'd be able to use 6th gear is on the autobahn. With the proper gearing, the 4 valve motor will smoke the 3, period! Then you add the Ohlins suspension, and everything is the way it should be. I was able to ride both bikes new before buying, and both had the factory suspension setups with no changes. The ST3 had plenty of power, but the bike's suspension felt loose to me, felt like it was working hard under me a lot on bumpy roads. The ST4s, on the other hand, felt like it was on a rail, smooth as silk and extremely stable. The suspension difference alone sold me on the bike. Now that I've geared my ST4s down, I can't believe it's the same machine. The gearing changes transformed the bike completely for me. At 75 mph I'm turning 4500 rpm in 6th, and it's got plenty of torque and power to pass without downshifting...unless you want to pin your ears back and go. As far as I'm concerned, the only downside to the 4 valve motor is the slightly higher cost of maintenance that most report, so if you could find a left over new ST4s for the same money as the ST3s or less, that's what I'd buy if it were my choice again.
 

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grabdawg said:
The ST4s'es motor will blow any ST3 away from 4K on up
Blow away? Hardly. Similar HP and torqe until 8k or so. My ST2 has 90 RWHP at 8200, I doubt that an ST4 has much more at that RPM.

Reality is most 4V guys run their bikes below 7 or 8k RPM, in which case they have NO power advantage!

CHeck out the ST3/ST4S/SS1000DS dyno curve at

http://moto-one.com.au/performance/st3base.htmlis

The SS wins until 6500 (and weighs a LOT less too), and the ST3 and ST4S are the same until 7800 or so! And even after that, the difference is less than 10%, hardly 'blow away'!

Tom
 
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Rlbol said:
One thing I might ad is I do like the power of a stronge engine.
Thank you!
well, i have an ST2 and a hayabusa.

if your hot button is a strong engine then i think the ducati will disappoint.

it is a stylin' play bike, mostly good as a chick magnet, but not so strong for power.
 

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st2lemans, guess again buckwheat!

My '05 ST4s on the dyno is putting out 112 hp at the rear wheel at 8200 rpm. It peaks at around 8800 @ 115 hp, and holds that until 10k, when it starts to drop off some. This is with the DP carbon cans, race air filter, and PCIII with custom mapping. There isn't an ST3 that will run with that anywhere, and people talking about the relative weakness of the ST4s down low rpm wise haven't ridden an ST4s with the right gearing. Like I said earlier, the ST3 has plenty of power, but it ain't no ST4s power wise.
 

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Not sure about the ST3’s motor, but Ducati back the suspension off a lot.
No rear preload, neither stock or Penske’s have it. Ohlins only. Which is oem on the 4s and 3s’s
I’ve been on my 03 ST4s abs, since july05. I picked her up used, with 5k on it, now I’m at 13,6k. After doing both the 6k and 12 service, ckd the valves-didn’t have to adjust them. No big deal.
I’ve said this before, imo these are the closest thing to a Superbike w/hard bags available. Up until Triumph put the new 1050motor in they’re ST, the 4s had the strongest motor, I believe the lightest weight and “ most potential” according to most mags.as far as chassis goes. And with gearing just short of Jupiter.

Stock pipes, DP air filter. 14tooth frt sprocket, thats it. 5k rpm=90mph-indicated.
I have to say that I like loofin up the interstate at 5k rpm. She has plenty of berries, although w/that gearing a couple of back shifts to get her motivated! The ride ability and the mileage are very tough to beat. Anyways I have 520, 15-42. that will be going on.
She’ll already lefts the nose over rises, um-can’t wait!

When Ducati put the 996 motor in the ST and upgraded the chassis to match, they went about tuning for midrange with the exhaust only- no cams, when they where done
they found the midrange and didn’t hurt the top end, So the ST4s ended up with
more motor then the 996 Superbike. To back that up, one conversion I heard, the Monster4s folks are on the look out for the ST4s exhaust systems.

Coming off a 04R1, nothing runs like a open class Sportbike, they are amazing.
so refined and effortless. I’ve toured on R1’s, 3days 1200miles they’er good.
I just wanted a bit more leg room and less of the “head down” attitude, hard bags and under 500lbs. No else in the world manufactures such a piece of equipment, Except Ducati. Oh, and they look great, neo-classic sort a way. again imo.


My thought are, on any giving track day (I’m going out a limb here) the ST4s without bags, would “run with” or possible out run a stock 888.
Maybee not as good looking as the 888-Doug Polen Special- not bad either.
its not a gsxr1k, but it is endearing!

October 05, Superbike magazine (www.superbike.co.uk) Sports vs Tourer
did a street ride comparo of 05ST3, vs a 05GSXR1k, 440something mile day,

1st on the st3, then gsxr1k
Sport vs Tourer

average speed, gsxr 54.68mph
st3 54.33mph.
knee down: gsxr1k, 18
st3, 7
wheelies: gsxr1k, 16
st3, 7
mpg: gsxr, 9.16 miles per ltr
st3 8.78 miles per ltr
missed grs gsxr 4
st3 5
And that wasn’t even the 3s or the 4s!

At the end, compromises were made the gsxr was reasonable comfortable and ducati handled and performed very well, giving the girth and being down on power. like 45%

After each ride, and each day he went to message therapist, aches and pains from both, just different.
just a thought.

Andrew
 
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