Seems to me, failure to check and top off coolant res. is a pretty common problem with our Ducs. Back in Feb. an owner posted a situation with his new 999 indicating hot on his ride home from the dealer - checked coolant and found it low or near empty. Then DL has a similar problem with her new 749. At the 600 mile service on my 05 ST4s it took 1/2 gal. of coolant, fortunately it had not been running hot. Do most dealers demonstrate such poor management by not keeping on top of their new bike prepping. You cannot blame this on the hired help, it is the dealer's responsibility to get decent help and manage their business. If a dealer winds up with a law suit over such things so-be-it. He probably shouldn't be in business - he should be digging ditches. This kind of service sucks. After months or years of studying, looking and dreaming of owning and riding a particular machine he or she lays down a bunch of money for a great product thereby bringing their expectations to fruition. Then some numb-nuts dealer takes their money, delivers a half prepped machine and says here your are - good by and good luck - I hope I don't see you again until you have more money to spend. I think there are a lot of good dealers out there - just not enough of them.
Dealer Prep
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I think you are right about some dealers. You only hear about the bad so here I will tell everyone in this forum PJ's Triumph Ducati Albuquerque,NM has been there for me and my 999. When I have had problems the guys there have offered to pick up the bike or pick me up to get it back. I was even offered the Demo 999 for the weekend until mine was fixed.
Maybe one of the moderators can compile a list of Ducati Dealers so we the owners can rate them. I would rate PJ's an all around 5 STAR or 10 place to purchase/customer service and maintenance/and hang out to talk about bikes and what not. IMO.
Maybe one of the moderators can compile a list of Ducati Dealers so we the owners can rate them. I would rate PJ's an all around 5 STAR or 10 place to purchase/customer service and maintenance/and hang out to talk about bikes and what not. IMO.
It seems to me there is a fair bit of buck-passing by owners in these things. If I have a bike starts running hot and the temperature gauge then goes off the scale, it's then MY responsiblity as an owner/user to stop the bike and not use it until the problem is rectified. Inconvenient, yes. The gauge on my bike started reading very hot last year, almost screamed at me to stop, which I did. The engine didn't feel excessivly hot and I checked with the dealers tech, we both agreed that it was probably the gauge or sensor and I took the bike to them the next day. It was the gauge and it was replaced under warranty. Is Ducati 100% at fault if you continue using a bike with some sort of warning sign?
That's a big NEGATIVE there, my friend.Wahoo said:
Keep in mind that threads on the Internet aren't started and go on for 7 pages about "WOW, MY BIKE IS RUNNING GREAT!" with replies like "Really? Fred posted about the same the other day" or "That's awesome, who was the dealer??"
Needless to say the unfavorable situations we hear about like Dragon Lady's are the exception rather than the rule. In fact, we really don't have complete information on what is the REAL situation with her bike. On the Internet forum on topics like this, it's usually ONE SIDE of the story that's only being presented.
If one were to take statistical samples of the number of times coolant is not provided on a brand new bike, you would be lucky to find even 2% result... which is hardly categorized as "COMMON."
Just a thought, before coming to certain conclusions...
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I don't see that the buck is being passed by buyers when the problem was caused by a dealer prep issue.tarochan said:
The issue is not riders failing to mitigate damage, the issue is dealers who negligently fail to prep a $23,000 bike for delivery [a prep which the dealer no doubt charged for and made a profit].
While I agree that riders on new bikes should know to stop the bike, etc., when warning lights go off, blame does not shift, nor should remedies be decreased, due to the buyer not being as competent as you purport to be on handling emergencies. The dealer does not escape responsibility for his gross negligence because a buyer is not proficient at reacting fast enough to an emergency breakdown.
The bottom line, when someone buys a new $23,000 bike, one is reasonable in assuming it will run like a new $23,000 bike.
On a new bike, one should not assume that there will be problems because the dealer failed to prep the bike properly. One should be able to proudly ride off the showroom floor and not have to bone up the night before on emergency procedures for the new bike, simply because the bike may overheat, seize or cause burns to one's legs.
As to dealer prep issues being a common problem, I agree it is not all that common, but with the small percentage of Duc sales that there are, the percentage of people whom are NOT Duc-MS members, and taking into account those people whom have not reported dealer prep problems, the percentage of reports here on Duc-Ms are significant enough to conclude that when buying a new Duc, maybe you better take it to an independent shop to have it checked out or do a complete check of the bike before taking possession.
With all due respect, I suspect that Ducati may share your opinion. There is not dealer service problem. In those few cases were there are complaints about poor or negligent dealer service, Ducati's response is probably: "Hey, it's the riders fault. They are simply passing the buck and they caused all the damage. We are not responsible and there is no problem with our dealers. Send this to our lawyers to handle should the stupid-ass, incompetent buyer try to take us to court."
Buck passing ? You must be joking !
Buck passing you say ? Hmmmmm. There are several hundred people that post here that would say that the handbook on Buck Passing was written by Ducati and promoted with evangelical fervor by their dealers on the flaking rocker issue. Both Ducati and dealer insisting that it was abuse by the owners.........Don't tell me you missed out on that one, eh ?
No sympathy pal, from everyone that had a TPG built Desmoquattro, no sympathy ! It is their obligation to manufacture a quality product and the dealers to prep it. And no....people do not post to say how well their OEM rockers are doing. They are entitled to that and should expect nothing else.
Sorry that I took the idea of "buck passing" at a different level than your original point, but when an accusing finger is pointed at mere owners when it is the professional organization is at fault..surely you forgive my sensitivity to the issue.
Buck passing you say ? Hmmmmm. There are several hundred people that post here that would say that the handbook on Buck Passing was written by Ducati and promoted with evangelical fervor by their dealers on the flaking rocker issue. Both Ducati and dealer insisting that it was abuse by the owners.........Don't tell me you missed out on that one, eh ?
No sympathy pal, from everyone that had a TPG built Desmoquattro, no sympathy ! It is their obligation to manufacture a quality product and the dealers to prep it. And no....people do not post to say how well their OEM rockers are doing. They are entitled to that and should expect nothing else.
Sorry that I took the idea of "buck passing" at a different level than your original point, but when an accusing finger is pointed at mere owners when it is the professional organization is at fault..surely you forgive my sensitivity to the issue.
tarochan said:
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I had a terible experience with Pro-Italia in glendale ca that included a gas line ruptureing and 12 months to complete my registration and sometimes I wonder if it was my deal, because they have since opened up another store in santa barbara. So if they treated ever one as bad as me woundl't they be out of business and not growing? Or is there just that many suckers out there??
AND whats wrong with digging ditches?!?!!?
LOL
Turin Atol General Contractor
AND whats wrong with digging ditches?!?!!?
LOLTurin Atol General Contractor
1. ProItalia has a pretty checkered reputation including their now legendary sale of a bike brought in for service. (Yep, it is a true story.) But their move to open a Santa Barbara store was pure, if not obvious, inspiration. I mean, that rich well traveled demographic between LA and San Louis Obispo had no Ducati dealer to spill some money into ? They should do very, very well there.
2. There really does seem to be a nice correlation between the price of the goods and the gullibility of the buyer.(Ask anyone who has made a career of luxury goods sales. ) Go figure.
3. There is no end of (new) buyers for luxury goods in a good economy. And as often as not, the goods don't match the hype. Trying to look at it objectively, I think there is a tremendous amount of, uh....let's just call it "elasticity" in what is acceptable by consumers in almost any area.
Ditch digger, huh ? What will you charge me to put in a 200 meter clay oval flattrack like they have at Supercamp in my backyard ? I know what fun is !
2. There really does seem to be a nice correlation between the price of the goods and the gullibility of the buyer.(Ask anyone who has made a career of luxury goods sales. ) Go figure.
3. There is no end of (new) buyers for luxury goods in a good economy. And as often as not, the goods don't match the hype. Trying to look at it objectively, I think there is a tremendous amount of, uh....let's just call it "elasticity" in what is acceptable by consumers in almost any area.
Ditch digger, huh ? What will you charge me to put in a 200 meter clay oval flattrack like they have at Supercamp in my backyard ? I know what fun is !
grinder96 said:I had a terible experience with Pro-Italia in glendale ca that included a gas line ruptureing and 12 months to complete my registration and sometimes I wonder if it was my deal, because they have since opened up another store in santa barbara. So if they treated ever one as bad as me woundl't they be out of business and not growing? Or is there just that many suckers out there??
AND whats wrong with digging ditches?!?!!?
Turin Atol General Contractor
I did say "Fair bit of buck-passing". I had to return my Subaru with a problem a week after I bought it. My new 998 cut out 15 klms from the dealer on the 1st day, it re-started immediately, but the problem persisted on & off for another 2000k's until I installed new exhaust & chip. My 749R had a slipper that wasn't working properly from new. If I hadn't taken some precautions when I first noticed it, I could've had a serious accident(user responsibility again)bit like slowing when road conditions change. It would also cut out when slowing for a stop, both these problems were corrected at the first service. I didn't rant & rave at the dealer but tried to understand what was happening(user responsibility. What! Not again?)I've learnt over the years to expect the glitches with Ducatis. They are machines after all. Oh yeah, I forgot, the Japanese bikes never have any problems(My wife thinks the Sun shines out of the collective Japanese arse, but then, she is Japanese(.The dealers do have a responsibity to make sure they are prepared correctly but they can't be expected to have every potential problem(I'm such easy going guyRotoRooterGuy said:
)sorted. A bike needs to be used to sort out the minor glitches. I also said "Is Ducati 100% at fault?" I just cannot help thinking that there are some here new to Ducati? New to bikes? New to twins? New...Who would possibly continue to ride, do wheelies, or whatever, with a warning light on, high temperature etc. And now on another note. Insurance companies now expect the user to take more and more of the responsibility. Here in Australia, anyway, NSW, if you have an accident and your bike has tyres with little or no tread, you could miss out on an insurance payment.
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tarochanThe dealers do have a responsibity to make sure they are prepared correctly but they can't be expected to have every potential problem...... A bike needs to be used to sort out the minor glitches.[/QUOTE said:
When they pulled my bike out of the crate, they baptised it with various life giving fluids and had me sign off on birth certificate saying she was and still is a healthy girl.
Really though, I went over the checklist with the mechanic to see what I was signing off on and he showed me all of the fluids, what level they should be at. All of those lovely yellow paint marks saying they have been torqued (by them or the factory). Where the battery tender hooks up at.Even the accessory port for glove warmers and such.
I have No Compliants....sometimes I wondering how many questions people ask before they buy their bike? Do they just sign and ride?
Surely they don't and then complain when something goes sour.
My Ducati House was cool to me and still are. Prices are higher then the internet but they put up with all my questions.
* They did sell me a Speedy moto 10 Y vented clutch cover, pressure plate, retaining cups and springs for $300.00 plus install.
Really though, I went over the checklist with the mechanic to see what I was signing off on and he showed me all of the fluids, what level they should be at. All of those lovely yellow paint marks saying they have been torqued (by them or the factory). Where the battery tender hooks up at.Even the accessory port for glove warmers and such.
I have No Compliants....sometimes I wondering how many questions people ask before they buy their bike? Do they just sign and ride?
Surely they don't and then complain when something goes sour.
My Ducati House was cool to me and still are. Prices are higher then the internet but they put up with all my questions.
* They did sell me a Speedy moto 10 Y vented clutch cover, pressure plate, retaining cups and springs for $300.00 plus install.
When I took delivery of both the BMW car and bike I was given about an hour long "class" for each vehicle as to what and what not to do. The dealer went down a check list which I signed off on at the end. After delivery I had both phone and mail questionaires in regards to the level of service I received. I know that they are mainly covering their A$$ but at least I felt I left the dealerships with a basic knowledge to properly maintain the bike. With the two Ducs I purchased I was basically handed they keys and shuffled out the door. You need owner prep as well as dealer prep.
The problem with coolant level on these bikes (and probably other watercooled bikes too), is you have to run the bike a few minutes, switch it off, let the level stabilize, then SQUEEZE the water hoses, then add more coolant (or water and Water Wetter), start it again, let it run a few minutes. This is Standard Operating Procedure with a race bike when changing motors. I suspect some dealers don't do this.
Rgds
Richard
Rgds
Richard
D
Dragon_Lady
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ha ha ha ha ha ha yea keep her rolloing roto....just another reminder of how mucch I hate blogs....migz123 said:
and for the record about your comments in the other thread about silence , sometimes it's good to just say nothing rather then blurt out every second...
Wahoo.... yes dealerships should do a PDI on bikes before given to the customer, and when a customer recieves a bike that does'nt start on the get go well come on shity service and then u as a customer have to pay for the bike for 2 months and still not have it not working properly is even more shity..... even more shitty is that DUCATI under warrenty has to fix that bike for that error.... I think DUCATI is actually paying the ultimate price. I guess if people dont respect the workmanship in this bike and treat it like its just come out of a cracker jack box they will treat it like that. I have heard ALOT of people say around here(in the city) ' dont worry it's under warrenty ' like just brush it off and probably are happy to do the work cause they are still getting paid and more money for the shop. I guess if people would just do their damn job properly and look after things properly DUCATI would save a shit load of money. I think microsoft needs to make up a buisness solution for DUCATI on how not to get screwed by others.....
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Dealers
Five Days Old
Yep,
Five days Old and less then 500 miles my Nephew brand New ZX6 ate a valve and then took out the piston! On the second day of owning this bike he called the dealer to tell them the bike had a ticking sound and the dealer told him all sport bikes sound like that???
Well he hasn't made his first payment yet and the bike is being fixed, he has ask for a New bike the dealer said NO only if Kaw buys the bike from the dealer or gives them credit for it!
Kaw said they would fix the bike at no charge.
Any bike could have problems but it is the Dealer who handles the problem and how they handle the problem!
I would of loaded it in the back of my pick-up truck and do about 90 down the road and pushed the bike out the back . Works all the time!
Then you get a New Bike.
I told him to buy a Ducati and not a box store bike...............
This being said I too had a problem with my bike the day she came home with me, my rear axle was so loose my chain could of came off ! So the dealer came to my house and picked up the bike and bought it back the next day along with a free oil change down the road.
A lot of car dealers are no better, so before you buy the product make sure they have high grades in the shop department.
Five Days Old
Yep,
Five days Old and less then 500 miles my Nephew brand New ZX6 ate a valve and then took out the piston! On the second day of owning this bike he called the dealer to tell them the bike had a ticking sound and the dealer told him all sport bikes sound like that???
Well he hasn't made his first payment yet and the bike is being fixed, he has ask for a New bike the dealer said NO only if Kaw buys the bike from the dealer or gives them credit for it!
Kaw said they would fix the bike at no charge.
Any bike could have problems but it is the Dealer who handles the problem and how they handle the problem!
I would of loaded it in the back of my pick-up truck and do about 90 down the road and pushed the bike out the back . Works all the time!
Then you get a New Bike.
I told him to buy a Ducati and not a box store bike...............
This being said I too had a problem with my bike the day she came home with me, my rear axle was so loose my chain could of came off ! So the dealer came to my house and picked up the bike and bought it back the next day along with a free oil change down the road.
A lot of car dealers are no better, so before you buy the product make sure they have high grades in the shop department.
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