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Trackday Junkie
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1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Okay, first and foremost, had a great day today at GP Motorcycles in San Diego, where they had their '2nd' Grand Opening at their new location (see signature). Among pizza, Indy GP viewing party, demo rides, was horsepower/torque/air-fuel ratio pull and/or a custom map for your bike if you had a power commander. I installed the PC V last night. So let me get right to the point.


Our StreetFighters/1098/1198's are *severely* castrated from the factory in order to come even close to passing the original EPA/Noise guidelines. As has been said in the past, we should be celebrating the fact that we can get such powerful V-twin bikes that make gobs of horsepower on pump gasoline. The cost? That area between idle & 4.5k rpm is lean. Like, really really really really freagin' lean.

The bottom line is in order to make our bikes run perfect, it won't be enough to just get slip-ons & a DP ECU. A Power Commander V or Nemesis or stand alone must be added to truely get rid of that lean issue down below. I believe that the DP ECU, even though it 'wakes up' the bike, is *still* lean below 4.5k rpm simply because Ducati doesn't want to mess with the EPA's golden territory. Get a PC V or Nemesis, now that falls on you, not them.


This chart, shows my bike with 1500 miles on it, Termignoni slip-ons and DP ECU & filter. Even though it has the DP ECU, obviously, Ducati didn't do anything to help out fuel wise from idle-4.5k. The timing is up and the fueling as you can see is rich in the midrange, so it does run a lot better there. But you can still see clearly how LEAN it is, and then how rich it is in the midrange.




Now, with the bike at 3,000 miles, WITH a power commander V installed (and let me tell you, that was a PITA to install that thing), and Louie from L&L Motorsports doing a cusom map, you can see how much cleaner the a/f ratio is....

(also, this map was done in 93 degree F*, 35% humidity....)




Notice, the a/f ratio is not all over the place. Finally rode home, and the difference is definately there, in a big way. Before, the bike took off at 4.5k rpm, now the bike takes off at just over 2k rpm...and it's smooooooooooth. Doesn't stutter and buck like it used to. Now, my bike pulls like a freight train from just over 2,000 rpm!

And the peak hp of 166.88? Even I was not expecting it to be that high! I was already happy with the prior map's 157.

To compare my bike to others that ran that day...

03 GSXR 750 - pipe & custom tune - 126
08 GSXR 750 -pipe & custom tune - 131
05 CBR 1000 - stock - 152
08 Ducati 848 - Akro slips ons, no dp ecu - 125
Triumph Tiger - stock pipe, chip, filter - 122! (not expecting that)
04 Yamaha R1 - pipe, pc - 157
08 GSXR 750 - pipe, pc - 132
01 Hayabusa - 1397 stroker motor - 204
07 GSXR 600 - cams, U4 race gas - 121
08 Ducati 1098 - Termi's, dp ecu - 150
05 MV Agusta F4 - stock - 152


I bought this bike because, honestly, I wanted a bike that was 'done' and didn't have to mess with, (you should have seen the parts list on my last bike, a cf Hayabusa) save for minor upgrades. Was really hoping the Termignoni slip-ons and dp ecu would be all that's needed, but alas, not even close. You really gotta get a PC V or Nemesis or stand alone ecu to get the fueling just right across the board.

That, and a 30 mm offset triple clamp is a must. But that's another story.
 

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Trackday Junkie
Joined
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1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Can you give any advice on the power commander V install ?
Yes, don't do it! Lol...

Really, I think would have rather paid a dealer to install it for me had I known. But I also think I got lucky! Please PLEASE keep in mind that, although I'm not a certified mechanic, I've been wrenching on bikes/cars for 20 years now. So I got more mechanical experience than the average bear.

The PC V directions are pretty clear on how to install it, except for two small little non-mentions of having to remove the tank (that was the 'easy' one) and having to drop the radiator down to get your fingers in that tiny little area, on top/behind the radiator and inside the frame, to the other injector above the front cylinder.

*sigh*

This is, of course, after removing both plastics on the side, the right cowl cover over the ram air, and both black body pieces that surround the tank/seat.

NOT FOR BEGINNERS!! Installing a PC on a GSXR usually takes maybe 15 minutes. This, not so much.

I also had one of the tiny mini little flat head screwdrivers that are normally used for screwing bolts to a pair of glasses or tiny screws to auto key fobs. That really came in handy here. Also, you'll need a portable light/flashlight.

For the Tank - remove main tank bolt in front of the tank/under the seat. Disconnect the two vacuum lines to the tank on the right rear side. Clip zip-tie holding wrapped signal wires to tank pump (to allow tank to move). Slide tank backwards, out of pin holes. Turn tank 90 degrees to the left and carefully set it down on area normally occupied by seat. Do NOT LET TANK FALL OFF THE BIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Follow instructions for 'rear' injector under tank. Use mini-screwdriver to unclip clip that hold injector signal wire in place. Unclip signal wire, clip in wire from PC V provided as per instructions and zip tie into neat little thingamahoozits.

For the front injector....

First, kiss your knuckles, sanity, and all things holy goodbye. People with severe turrets syndrome don't swear as much as you're about to be...

The front injector is right behind the neck where the Trellis frame comes together. Good lord. There is no F'ing way you're going to get in there without dropping the radiator.

Dropping the radiator, w/o disconnecting it - remove battery cover. The reason is that the cover also holds the bottom radiator hose that needs to be loose. Remove bottom V-shapped plastic cover right behind front tire. Unbolt top radiator bolt on left side of radiator. Slide radiator to the right hand of the bike until it pops off both the bottom rubber O-ring and the top right post. Disconnect temp sensor on top right of the radiator. On the left of the bike, pull the bottom hose out from where it's at to the side of the battery to allow the radiator to drop a little further.

LOL..........

Now comes the HARD PART.....

After 3 pints of Guiness on an empty stomach, grab the portable flashlight and that tiny screwdriver. Turn wheel to the right. Now, go to the right hand side of the frame at the neck. You should have, barely, access to SOMEHOW see the injector plug into the injector behind the front of the frame. Patiently, and I mean PATIENT like a Koala smoking weed, use the screwdriver to get under that clip by pushing the top part up and back. Once you get it off the channel, REALLY start pushing the clip down so it's very much off the channel.

Then from the front of the bike, finish getting the clip off the channel and off the injector housing period. Once that's done, the housing simply slips off, you then (as per easy directions) clip the pc wire into one and the other wire in other housing, use the provide small zip tie to make it nice and tidy, and then...

As per directions, ground the PC V to the bolt below the drain plug, and then use the provided wire splice to clip the orange TPS wire that leads to the front injector (as per instructions again).

The reverse most everything to put the bike back together again. Doing everything, and getting the bike back together again, took me about 4 hours total.

So, if you're good with mechanical stuff, it's all relatively 'easy' to what you need to do. Just doing it is a PITA.


And is it worth it? So far, yes it is. My lean issue down low is gone, and the bike pulls smooth and strong from just off idle, and I can also look forward to better fuel economy plus more power now that it's not rich along the midrange.

If anytime I 'lost ya' from writing above...really...this was not easy. If you do take it to a dealer for install, save yourself money by removing all the panels listed above first and the having the dealer do it.

Price
 

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Registered
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465 Posts
Yes, don't do it! Lol...

Really, I think would have rather paid a dealer to install it for me had I known. But I also think I got lucky! Please PLEASE keep in mind that, although I'm not a certified mechanic, I've been wrenching on bikes/cars for 20 years now. So I got more mechanical experience than the average bear.

The PC V directions are pretty clear on how to install it, except for two small little non-mentions of having to remove the tank (that was the 'easy' one) and having to drop the radiator down to get your fingers in that tiny little area, on top/behind the radiator and inside the frame, to the other injector above the front cylinder.

*sigh*

This is, of course, after removing both plastics on the side, the right cowl cover over the ram air, and both black body pieces that surround the tank/seat.

NOT FOR BEGINNERS!! Installing a PC on a GSXR usually takes maybe 15 minutes. This, not so much.

I also had one of the tiny mini little flat head screwdrivers that are normally used for screwing bolts to a pair of glasses or tiny screws to auto key fobs. That really came in handy here. Also, you'll need a portable light/flashlight.

For the Tank - remove main tank bolt in front of the tank/under the seat. Disconnect the two vacuum lines to the tank on the right rear side. Clip zip-tie holding wrapped signal wires to tank pump (to allow tank to move). Slide tank backwards, out of pin holes. Turn tank 90 degrees to the left and carefully set it down on area normally occupied by seat. Do NOT LET TANK FALL OFF THE BIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Follow instructions for 'rear' injector under tank. Use mini-screwdriver to unclip clip that hold injector signal wire in place. Unclip signal wire, clip in wire from PC V provided as per instructions and zip tie into neat little thingamahoozits.

For the front injector....

First, kiss your knuckles, sanity, and all things holy goodbye. People with severe turrets syndrome don't swear as much as you're about to be...

The front injector is right behind the neck where the Trellis frame comes together. Good lord. There is no F'ing way you're going to get in there without dropping the radiator.

Dropping the radiator, w/o disconnecting it - remove battery cover. The reason is that the cover also holds the bottom radiator hose that needs to be loose. Remove bottom V-shapped plastic cover right behind front tire. Unbolt top radiator bolt on left side of radiator. Slide radiator to the right hand of the bike until it pops off both the bottom rubber O-ring and the top right post. Disconnect temp sensor on top right of the radiator. On the left of the bike, pull the bottom hose out from where it's at to the side of the battery to allow the radiator to drop a little further.

LOL..........

Now comes the HARD PART.....

After 3 pints of Guiness on an empty stomach, grab the portable flashlight and that tiny screwdriver. Turn wheel to the right. Now, go to the right hand side of the frame at the neck. You should have, barely, access to SOMEHOW see the injector plug into the injector behind the front of the frame. Patiently, and I mean PATIENT like a Koala smoking weed, use the screwdriver to get under that clip by pushing the top part up and back. Once you get it off the channel, REALLY start pushing the clip down so it's very much off the channel.

Then from the front of the bike, finish getting the clip off the channel and off the injector housing period. Once that's done, the housing simply slips off, you then (as per easy directions) clip the pc wire into one and the other wire in other housing, use the provide small zip tie to make it nice and tidy, and then...

As per directions, ground the PC V to the bolt below the drain plug, and then use the provided wire splice to clip the orange TPS wire that leads to the front injector (as per instructions again).

The reverse most everything to put the bike back together again. Doing everything, and getting the bike back together again, took me about 4 hours total.

So, if you're good with mechanical stuff, it's all relatively 'easy' to what you need to do. Just doing it is a PITA.


And is it worth it? So far, yes it is. My lean issue down low is gone, and the bike pulls smooth and strong from just off idle, and I can also look forward to better fuel economy plus more power now that it's not rich along the midrange.

If anytime I 'lost ya' from writing above...really...this was not easy. If you do take it to a dealer for install, save yourself money by removing all the panels listed above first and the having the dealer do it.

Price
How did you adjust the fueling on a closed loop system below 4k? A Nemises, yes, but a PCV (according to DynoJet) wont work on a closed loop system.
 

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Trackday Junkie
Joined
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1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
As a trade off you do lose the traction control on S models, don't you?
No, you still retain the traction control. The PC V's job, the only thing it does, is intercept the signal of how much or how little the fuel is sent to the computer, but adding or subtracting numbers on the map. If the TC kicks in, it still pulls back the fuel (injector) and timing (spark). So the fuel will still be sent, just a lot lot less. But the TC still works.

How did you adjust the fueling on a closed loop system below 4k? A Nemises, yes, but a PCV (according to DynoJet) wont work on a closed loop system.

You have to have a PC V (NON-EX model) AND a Ducati Performance ECU, which comes with the Termignoni slip-ons, which I have. If you get a power commander EX model, that pc is street legal, and thus will not work below 4k rpm. With the DP ecu, it allows you to adjust below 4k rpm.
 

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Bon Vivant
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11,252 Posts
BigL, you will loose DTC with a Nemisis but not with a PCV.

Since the latest DP ECU uses the O2 sensors I'm glad to see that it still allows the PCV to tune bellow 5K. Mospeada, You are probably the first to report this.

For those of us without the Termi system a protune and the PCV would be a more cost effective way to achieve the same results.
but you're still looking at close to a $grand and probably a bit over a $grand with the dyno tune.
 

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Trackday Junkie
Joined
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1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
It's getting better though. :)
Sure beats dropping $3,200 for "almost perfect" full Termi............

Tell me about it! I kinda almost bugs me that I have to 'double dip' on the ecu stuff to get it right....

$1500 Termignoni/DP Ecu/filter
$350 PC V
$275 for custom map (or $250 if you get the PC V Autotune feature)

A full Termignoni system is more, but you're still going to have to get a PC V & tune or a Nemesis to get the map perfectly right.


Still, the bike runs WAY nicer now. It's really, well, shockingly powerful from such low rpm's. I haven't ridden it since riding it back from the dyno day. Still need to be put the plastics back on.
 

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Trackday Junkie
Joined
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1,374 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Except the SF is still closed loop even with the EP ECU. So we need to get rid of the closed loop first.
My bike *was* closed loop as well.

So, YES, if you got a DP ECU and a PC V, you can do the same thing!

But, they haven't released the PC V for a StreetFighter yet. Which leads me to believe that...

Right now, if you got Termignoni slip-on's, a DP ECU, and a Power Commander USB for a 1098.......you're golden!

....or just wait until PC releases the PC V for a StreetFighter. Which shouldn't be hard as it's the same thing for a 1098, tmk.
 
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