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There seems to have been an unusual number of cylinder head failures, can you tell us anything about this?
"Yes, there have been some problems with coolant escaping into the lubricating oil. This was caused by an unexpected internal corrosion problem caused by glycol-based anti-freeze. We have changed the anti-freeze specification to a non-glycol one and this has cured the problem. We now recommend a non-glycol anti-freeze for all existing Testastretta engines."

Andrea Forni Interview | Ash On Bikes
 

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Looks as if this will be an interesting topic. Through some limited research I have begun to determine that Non-Glycol coolant offers no antifreeze protection.

So, did the Technical Director of Ducati misspeak, is he misinformed, misquoted, something lost in translation, or am I misinformed? ("Non-Glycol based antifreeze")

Furthermore, I am thinking that a coolant system flush would be in order to remove the existing coolant that has bonded/permeated the metals in contact with the cooling fluids. This, in my opinion, should be a chemical based flush. What product should be used? BG products are only available to trained Techs. Thinking most, if not all, Duc shops are not BG users? I wish to get the glycol based fluid out and get the new in but I wish to do the exchange once and right the first time.

Alas, if it is true that there is no Non-Glycol product with antifreeze qualities I will have trepidations concerning use, parking, and storage in sub-freezing conditions. As a four-season pilot this is yet another potential disappointment with regard to an awesome to ride yet a PITA cycle to maintain/get right/keep right.

I hear yet more $$$ leaving my pocket :mad:
 

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What about the lubricating properties of glycol based antifreeze? Doesn't the coolant play a part in lubricating the waterpump internals?
 

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All aqueous solutions have antifreeze properties. It really doesn't matter what solute you put into water. Now, some are better than others, and glycol is a very good antifreeze agent, but salt, sugar, anything that dissolves in water will simultaneously reduce the freezing point and raise the boiling point.
Trust me on this- I am a Professor of Chemistry.
 

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So… does anyone know if Ducati is going to start replacing coolant for Multi owners as a no charge warranty item?
I think I'm going to call my dealership in the morning!
 

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So… does anyone know if Ducati is going to start replacing coolant for Multi owners as a no charge warranty item?
I think I'm going to call my dealership in the morning!
I'm willing to bet good money that they don't even know about an issue let alone a fix/change in the 2013 MTS. I'm thinking it will be a while before this information and change trickles down if ever. Ducati never issued a recall on the rear brakes either just a TSB which was an "as requested/bitched/moaned/complained" item. Same for the Ohlin shims. I don't think this will be much different.
 

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So… does anyone know if Ducati is going to start replacing coolant for Multi owners as a no charge warranty item?
I think I'm going to call my dealership in the morning!
Just curious why do you care JackN? I know what you currently ride or are we "looking"? :D
 

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How about AMSOIL -> AMSOIL - Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant (ANT)


Product Description
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant (ANT) is formulated to provide benefits far beyond those found in today’s conventional antifreeze and coolant products. This revolutionary formulation provides maximum antifreeze and cooling protection in the most extreme temperatures and operating conditions. And unlike conventional ethylene glycol-based products, which are highly toxic and even fatal, AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is formulated with propylene glycol. It is biodegradable and its low toxicity limits the threat to children, pets and wildlife.

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant provides even greater benefits:

Lasts Longer
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant contains a proprietary poly organic acid technology. It eliminates the need for supplemental coolant additives and recharging cooling systems. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant provides extended service life in all gasoline and diesel vehicles. It can be used for seven years or 250,000 miles in passenger cars, light-duty trucks, vans and recreational vehicles. It lasts seven years or 750,000 miles in over-the-road diesel trucks. Also for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and closed marine applications. AMSOIL Antifreeze and Engine Coolant lasts longer than conventional products.

Compatible With Other Fluids
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is dyed neutral yellow and is compatible with all ethylene and propylene antifreeze and coolant formulations on the market, including DEX-Cool®, Sierra® and Zerex®. It is also compatible with fully formulated diesel anti-freezes and other organic acid technology (OAT) and hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulations.

Stops Leaks
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant adheres to metal. It self-seals hairline cracks in welds and seams to prevent leaks, without additional stop-leak products or fibrous materials.

Helps Prevent Metallic Corrosion
Independent tests reveal AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant surpassed standards for metallic corrosion. It plates metal to protect even when exposed to acids and salt spray. Standard allowances for loss in aluminum and solder are less than 60 mg. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant lost 0 mg in aluminum and less than 6 mg in solder.

Standards for iron, steel, copper and brass allow a maximum loss of less than 20 mg. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant never exceeded a 3 mg loss in any of those metals in a testing period that was run for 10 weeks, three weeks longer than required tests.

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant (ANT)

• Formulated for heavy-duty and automotive applications
• Good for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and some marine applications
• Extended drain intervals

Up to seven years or 750,000 miles in Class 8 vehicles
Up to seven years or 250,000 miles in pleasure vehicles

• Universal compatibility
• Safe, biodegradable, non-toxic, non-polluting
• Aluminum engine block compatible
• Silicate- and Phosphate-Free

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant meets the following automotive and heavy-duty service specifications:

• ASTM D-6210 • ASTM D-3306
• ASTM D 6210-98

Composition by Weight:
Total glycols, > 92 percent;
Corrosion inhibitors and antifoamants,
= 3 percent; Water, < 5 percent

Boiling Point (sea level):
219° F at 40 percent concentration,
222° F at 50 percent,
225° F at 60 percent;
increase by 40° to 45° F if a 15 psi
radiator cap is used
 

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Look again. This product is clearly a product that contains Glycol. We are looking for a Non-Glycol product.

How about AMSOIL -> AMSOIL - Propylene Glycol Antifreeze and Engine Coolant (ANT)


Product Description
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant (ANT) is formulated to provide benefits far beyond those found in today’s conventional antifreeze and coolant products. This revolutionary formulation provides maximum antifreeze and cooling protection in the most extreme temperatures and operating conditions. And unlike conventional ethylene glycol-based products, which are highly toxic and even fatal, AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is formulated with propylene glycol. It is biodegradable and its low toxicity limits the threat to children, pets and wildlife.

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant provides even greater benefits:

Lasts Longer
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant contains a proprietary poly organic acid technology. It eliminates the need for supplemental coolant additives and recharging cooling systems. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant provides extended service life in all gasoline and diesel vehicles. It can be used for seven years or 250,000 miles in passenger cars, light-duty trucks, vans and recreational vehicles. It lasts seven years or 750,000 miles in over-the-road diesel trucks. Also for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and closed marine applications. AMSOIL Antifreeze and Engine Coolant lasts longer than conventional products.

Compatible With Other Fluids
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant is dyed neutral yellow and is compatible with all ethylene and propylene antifreeze and coolant formulations on the market, including DEX-Cool®, Sierra® and Zerex®. It is also compatible with fully formulated diesel anti-freezes and other organic acid technology (OAT) and hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulations.

Stops Leaks
AMSOIL Antifreeze & Coolant adheres to metal. It self-seals hairline cracks in welds and seams to prevent leaks, without additional stop-leak products or fibrous materials.

Helps Prevent Metallic Corrosion
Independent tests reveal AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant surpassed standards for metallic corrosion. It plates metal to protect even when exposed to acids and salt spray. Standard allowances for loss in aluminum and solder are less than 60 mg. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant lost 0 mg in aluminum and less than 6 mg in solder.

Standards for iron, steel, copper and brass allow a maximum loss of less than 20 mg. AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant never exceeded a 3 mg loss in any of those metals in a testing period that was run for 10 weeks, three weeks longer than required tests.

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant (ANT)

• Formulated for heavy-duty and automotive applications
• Good for motorcycles, ATVs, snowmobiles and some marine applications
• Extended drain intervals

Up to seven years or 750,000 miles in Class 8 vehicles
Up to seven years or 250,000 miles in pleasure vehicles

• Universal compatibility
• Safe, biodegradable, non-toxic, non-polluting
• Aluminum engine block compatible
• Silicate- and Phosphate-Free

AMSOIL Antifreeze & Engine Coolant meets the following automotive and heavy-duty service specifications:

• ASTM D-6210 • ASTM D-3306
• ASTM D 6210-98

Composition by Weight:
Total glycols, > 92 percent;
Corrosion inhibitors and antifoamants,
= 3 percent; Water, < 5 percent

Boiling Point (sea level):
219° F at 40 percent concentration,
222° F at 50 percent,
225° F at 60 percent;
increase by 40° to 45° F if a 15 psi
radiator cap is used
 

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In God I Trust.

All aqueous solutions have antifreeze properties. It really doesn't matter what solute you put into water. Now, some are better than others, and glycol is a very good antifreeze agent, but salt, sugar, anything that dissolves in water will simultaneously reduce the freezing point and raise the boiling point.
Trust me on this- I am a Professor of Chemistry.
Really?:rolleyes:
Ice Water Non-Glycol Racing Coolant » Liquid Performance

Professor, If you know of a Non-Glycol coolant that has Antifreeze properties, in context of liquid-cooled engine application , please let us know.:)
 

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So glycol is the issue yet for us living in areas that will regularly go under zero we need it's antifreeze properties. Great... :(
 

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Really?:rolleyes:
Ice Water Non-Glycol Racing Coolant » Liquid Performance

Professor, If you know of a Non-Glycol coolant that has Antifreeze properties, in context of liquid-cooled engine application , please let us know.:)
Not really my area, but I'll look into it.
I'm not trying to come across as academically elitist, but the statement that only glycols can serve as antifreeze is just not right. Every state dept. of transportation that puts salt on the roads knows about freezing point depression. Also anyone that makes ice cream the old fashioned way knows that rock salt reduces the temp of the ice so the cream can freeze.

A "glycol" is simply a di-alcohol. That is, a compound that has two alcohol or 'OH' groups. Ethylene glycol has two carbons (and our bodies confuse it with ethanol- also two carbons- ironically, it is our response to detoxify it that leads to its toxicity) and propylene glycol has three carbon atoms (our bodies can tell that it just 'ain't right' so it is not nearly as toxic). Polyglycols or polyols have more-
The problem (I'm guessing) is that the alcohol group is oxidized to an acid group and then it reacts with and corrodes the base metal of a motor. Shouldn't happen at room temp, but in the environment of a hot motor, in a casting of some unidentified alloy, that might act as a catalyst, I can see it happening.
Maybe the newer 'non-glycol' coolants are polyethers? I am just speculating, but polyethers are less reactive, excellent detergents and some will mix freely with water. That's the key- you need a very, very concentrated solution to substantially alter the freezing/boiling point of water.
And I currently have no idea what additives go into antifreeze to reduce their breakdown/reactivity with metal. My guess (again- just a guess) is some group of reductants. Keep the metals reduced and metallic rather than oxidized and soluble.
What bothers me about claims on websites are uses of words like 'proprietary' 'innovative' or worse- 'secret formula' or 'suppressed by industry' (not used on the Ice Water website, but damn it is common).
I'm starting to rant. I'll quit now and won't post here again unless I can find something worth posting.
Cheers,
 

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Not really my area, but I'll look into it.
I'm not trying to come across as academically elitist, but the statement that only glycols can serve as antifreeze is just not right. Every state dept. of transportation that puts salt on the roads knows about freezing point depression. Also anyone that makes ice cream the old fashioned way knows that rock salt reduces the temp of the ice so the cream can freeze.

A "glycol" is simply a di-alcohol. That is, a compound that has two alcohol or 'OH' groups. Ethylene glycol has two carbons (and our bodies confuse it with ethanol- also two carbons- ironically, it is our response to detoxify it that leads to its toxicity) and propylene glycol has three carbon atoms (our bodies can tell that it just 'ain't right' so it is not nearly as toxic). Polyglycols or polyols have more-
The problem (I'm guessing) is that the alcohol group is oxidized to an acid group and then it reacts with and corrodes the base metal of a motor. Shouldn't happen at room temp, but in the environment of a hot motor, in a casting of some unidentified alloy, that might act as a catalyst, I can see it happening.
Maybe the newer 'non-glycol' coolants are polyethers? I am just speculating, but polyethers are less reactive, excellent detergents and some will mix freely with water. That's the key- you need a very, very concentrated solution to substantially alter the freezing/boiling point of water.
And I currently have no idea what additives go into antifreeze to reduce their breakdown/reactivity with metal. My guess (again- just a guess) is some group of reductants. Keep the metals reduced and metallic rather than oxidized and soluble.
What bothers me about claims on websites are uses of words like 'proprietary' 'innovative' or worse- 'secret formula' or 'suppressed by industry' (not used on the Ice Water website, but damn it is common).
I'm starting to rant. I'll quit now and won't post here again unless I can find something worth posting.
Cheers,
i hated my chemistry teacher
 

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" We now recommend a non-glycol anti-freeze for all existing Testastretta engines" appears to me to be a very simplistic statement to what may be a complex issue. As I understand it, this product has been used universally not just as an anti-freeze, but anti-corrosion product for a long time. More specifically, the Testastretta engine has been in production for more than 10 years; whereas the motor may have some accepted design flaws, head failure caused by corrosion is not something that I've seen on the horizon. My 2006 machine has yet to develop a leak :confused: I could have used a :) but now my anxiety levels are rising.
I think this calls for an in-depth please explain.
 

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Pretty sure engine ice is glycol free, I've used it for years in other bikes. I'll be looking into the official recommendation as well. I'm sure it will be "Ducati" branded.
 
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