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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I can tell I've been working on my bike too long when I start getting super paranoid about this type of thing, so forgive me if this is a really stupid/obvious question.

I'm putting my clutch back together after a good cleaning/check and I've purchased a shiny new pressure plate and clutch spring spider retainer from Desmotimes.

So, when I am torquing down the springs, the spider is applying pressure to all 6 springs. When one gets even CLOSE to what I thought was the correct torque (back of LT Synders manual says 7nm) the one directly opposite isn't even finger tight. My basket/pack/hub are in great condition, so I'd really rather not brake something, and I'm in no hurry.

Is there a different procedure for torquing with a spider? Or do I need to just keep slowly torquing each bolt in a pattern? How do I get the torque balanced across all 6 springs?
 

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tighten all 6 screws and then torque to spec? are you not tightening them all down?

do it in stages if it makes you happier about the stupid spider thing moving evenly. i would just do 2 opposite screws up, which should pull that thing all the way down on all 6 posts, then put the other 4 screws in and tighten.

maybe we're looking at it different ways?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
tighten all 6 screws and then torque to spec? are you not tightening them all down?

do it in stages if it makes you happier about the stupid spider thing moving evenly. i would just do 2 opposite screws up, which should pull that thing all the way down on all 6 posts, then put the other 4 screws in and tighten.

maybe we're looking at it different ways?
I have all 6 screws/spring attached. Now I'm tightening them down. They keep getting tighter, but as I tighten one, the rest get looser.

Update: I torqued the screws down a bit more, and they still weren't close to balancing. When I tightened one or two, at least one was always loose. Also, when grabbing the clutch I couldn't move the back wheel. Loosening them about 3 turns each improved the lever feel and let the back wheel freewheel, which I THINK is closer to correct.
So I'm not sure what to do. My torque wrench is pretty sensitive (I have one for carbon fiber mountain bikes that goes to 7nm MAX) and I'm not even getting all of them to 2nm. There is always at least one that's loose!

Note: I am overly meticulous about torque specs. I broke some VERY expensive parts on a mountain bike one time, which lead to one hell of a crash, from overtorquing. Without the spider I would torque each bolt to 1nm, 3nm, 5nm, the 7nm, in a pattern.
 

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You screw every screw in until the stupid spider thing is sitting against the end of each post. Then you torque them up. I hate to ask, but are you sure you’re up for this?
 

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Don't get your torque wrench out before you have each bolt tightened till touching the inner hub.
Only then start tighening them to the specified torque.

If you try to use the torque wrench while the springs are not yet completely compressed, the twisting force of the springs (against the spider or the caps) can make your torque wrench 'click'.

Handtightening them till the caps just touch the inner hub is the key here.

Good luck!!
 

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have you tried test fitting the spider without the springs? is there any sort of other interference issue? does the stupid spider thing compress the springs more than the original caps, causing coil bind?
 

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lol.. Belter.
so how do you really feel about the "stupid spider thing" ?

I have had them on plenty of bikes in the past but have not seen any good or bad from them.
 

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you're making too much out of the process. run the screws down, in a pattern if you like, until the screws 'stop'. torque. done.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Don't get your torque wrench out before you have each bolt tightened till touching the inner hub.
Only then start tighening them to the specified torque.

If you try to use the torque wrench while the springs are not yet completely compressed, the twisting force of the springs (against the spider or the caps) can make your torque wrench 'click'.

Handtightening them till the caps just touch the inner hub is the key here.

Good luck!!
The spring cap physically touches the post on the hub? Either I'm doing something wrong, or I'm not understanding. If I put a bolt and cap without a spring the space is too small for a spring to fit, it is 100% compressed before that happens.

I just thought of something... I have an aftermarket hub (installed by previous owner, I think it's a Nichols, the basket is for sure). Is it possible the posts are shorter or something? Also, the prior setup used a "spacer" that fit over the bolt inside the spring (see pic with old cap, bolt, spacer and spring). I've never seen such a thing in any manual, how-to, or video before. Am I an idiot and it's required with my new springs and bolts? Because that would (obviously...) make a huge difference... Anybody have experience with the "spacer" thing? Shit... It's that simple, isn't it...

(Note: This is exactly why I'm a nervous mechanic... Everything goes great until there is something that isn't mentioned, or is glossed over in the manual. My problem here is a mixture of OEM and aftermarket parts that, possibly, require a different procedure but I don't know because I didn't install them originally...)
 

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Yes, the cap tightens against the post. If you haven't changed the hub then you will have to continue running the spacer. Never heard of a spacer being used (let alone ever see one).
 

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post a photo of the hub posts
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
post a photo of the hub posts
One pic of hub posts, the other is with the old plate and two caps installed (w/o springs, obviously) one with and one without the spacer. I don't know if it shows, but the one without the spacer can't even be tightened all the way... The bolt bottoms out...

The spacer must be the solution (and I feel stupid, but glad I didn't break anything)... Logically, the cap/spider must touch the post (or spacer and post) otherwise it would be nearly impossible to balance the spring pressure. I've just never noticed with the way I've been torquing down the bolts.

Now I'm more curious as to what it is and why it's needed. In my mind the spacer went with the old springs/bolts. So glad I didn't toss anything.

Oh the joys of being a second owner. I never run into these problems on the bikes I bought new...

EDIT/UPDATE: I went through the receipts the previous owner gave me. There is no new hub listed for a significant clutch overhaul (Nichols flywheel and basket, barnett pack, all new seals, even a new pushrod). However, there is "Clutch hub spacers 13 dia x 10 lg, (6)" for $8.40. So that's what they are, but I still don't know why they are needed.
 

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lol.. Belter.
so how do you really feel about the "stupid spider thing" ?

I have had them on plenty of bikes in the past but have not seen any good or bad from them.
:grin2:

well, did you read the thread in the sf section about how it fixed that blokes clutch? it must be good.

we both know it's just a flashy part designed to separate peoples and their $.

but this bloke is having an unduly inordinate amount of agro fitting it. looks from his pic like he has a non original hub and some wacky posts on the hub.
 

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One pic of hub posts, the other is with the old plate and two caps installed (w/o springs, obviously) one with and one without the spacer. I don't know if it shows, but the one without the spacer can't even be tightened all the way... The bolt bottoms out...

The spacer must be the solution (and I feel stupid, but glad I didn't break anything)... Logically, the cap/spider must touch the post (or spacer and post) otherwise it would be nearly impossible to balance the spring pressure. I've just never noticed with the way I've been torquing down the bolts.

Now I'm more curious as to what it is and why it's needed. In my mind the spacer went with the old springs/bolts. So glad I didn't toss anything.

Oh the joys of being a second owner. I never run into these problems on the bikes I bought new...

EDIT/UPDATE: I went through the receipts the previous owner gave me. There is no new hub listed for a significant clutch overhaul (Nichols flywheel and basket, barnett pack, all new seals, even a new pushrod). However, there is "Clutch hub spacers 13 dia x 10 lg, (6)" for $8.40. So that's what they are, but I still don't know why they are needed.
that's not an original hub. what you need to do is work out how far the posts that the spring screws are going into should protrude out past the end of the hub. i'll be at work in an hour or so, i can try to take a photo then for you. once you get that height right things should work ok.

looks like a clustercuss of mismatched aftermarket.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
that's not an original hub. what you need to do is work out how far the posts that the spring screws are going into should protrude out past the end of the hub. i'll be at work in an hour or so, i can try to take a photo then for you. once you get that height right things should work ok.

looks like a clustercuss of mismatched aftermarket.
Yep. I'm considering pulling it all and starting from scratch... I think I'll get it sorted out though. Thanks for the help.
 

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I would wonder why someone went to the effort to swap out the inner hub, is it a slipper? Take it apart carefully and see if there is a benefit over oem, it may be nothing more than bling but there is nothing wrong with that as long as it works.

I do not like adding extra parts that may or may not be right I would see if there is a oem spring cup of the right size and ditch the spacers. I think there are some long cups for some wet clutch bikes but have not measured one, I will try and measure one and post back.

If it turns out to be a Nichols basket they may sell you the correct length posts as they appear to be changeable. Why not start with the right length posts? I am sure you could have them made in a pinch.

I have not read the spider cap thing thread, Someday I hope to have the time to be enlightened.
 

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i didn't think it looked like a slipper going on what is behind - the posts screw into the hub flange, not go through. ? but it's a bit unusual.
 

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Perhaps one or more of the original posts broke and this was their way of replacing them?
 
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