[PhilipIsland]

I recently replaced my stock clutch slave with an Evoluzione unit on my 900 ss/sp. I'd like to adjust the clutch lever so that it engages the clutch earlier. At the moment (the lever is in the "2" position) I have to pull the lever all the way in before I can shit, I'd like it to engage closer to half way to three quarters of the way in.
The adjustment screw on the lever is turned all the way in. Can someone walk me through the procedure.

Thanks.
PI

 

[Joe-B]

Not the adjustment screw. The reach is adjusted by pushing the lever forward and rotating the piece with the numbers 1-4 on it. Make sure the number lines up with the arrow so it is in the detent. I hope you can do it soon so you can shit !
Joe

 

[BONESTOCK]

Not the adjustment screw. The reach is adjusted by pushing the lever forward and rotating the piece with the numbers 1-4 on it. Make sure the number lines up with the arrow so it is in the detent. I hope you can do it soon so you can shit !
Joe

LOL!! Saw that too!

 

[hyper.s]

rofl

 

[Mojo66]

Typo..

Is that a Typo or did Ducati release a "Duck-Porta-Potty"

ROFL

Keep the rubber side downs boys & girls :abduct:

 

[vickon]

Clutch adjustment...

Bleed, bleed, bleed and keep bleeding the system!!! Preferably on a "pit jack" stand so you can turn on the motor and test the system while on its stand. It would help if you can get another person to help if possible so you can do it quicker!!! You still have air bubbles in the lines, system. Once you bleed the system right, you should be very close to as it was before but a slightly easier pull on the lever and engaging the gears should be normal. The same happened to me!!! I was about to f#@*!^! give up on the aftermarket upgrade!, took a break, came back continued bleeding the system and finally I was able to engage all the gears and adjust the Pazzo lever to the original position. So, remember... if you can't shit! Bleed, bleed, bleed... ROFL

Good Luck!

 

[Shazaam]

Aftermarket slave cylinder replacements offer lever pull-force reduction - but always with the penalty of requiring a longer clutch lever pull-distance to get full disengagement. When you use over a 30mm size slave you'll get this lever throw problem, and slower shifts because of it.

 

[steveg]

Old thread resurrected. Found myself in the same position just yesterday.
'98 748 had stock clutch in and was way knackered, and got myself a slipper clutch, the ball-bearing type if it matters.
On fitting the clutch would fully engage on almost reaching the handlebar requiring a four finger grip (no room between bar and lever)
After much fettling managed to get the biting point away a bit but had to use the screw for that, which brings me to the question..
Why "NOT THE ADJUSTMENT SCREW"?

P.s. I did the lithium grease trick too

Thanks, Steve

 

[duc96cr]

This kind of ties into the other clutch engagement post thats active right now. One observation: I never thought stock clutch pull was that bad, and the increased difficulty of finding neutral wasn’t worth the decreased effort. I feel like I kind of got talked into believing I needed reduced lever effort.

 

[Lelebebbel]

This kind of ties into the other clutch engagement post thats active right now. One observation: I never thought stock clutch pull was that bad, and the increased difficulty of finding neutral wasn’t worth the decreased effort. I feel like I kind of got talked into believing I needed reduced lever effort.

I got a pro Italia clutch slave on mine (came with the bike) which I believe to have quite a high hydraulic leverage ratio compared to stock, and it's definitely finicky to get the clutch stacked right so it engages and disengages all the way because of that. I have a stock one in a box somewhere I could put on, but no idea what shape it's in. They do really like to leak.

 

[steveg]

Good to note, thank you.
I was more curious why the reaction in bold
Quote
NOT THE ADJUSTMENT SCREW
Unquote
I fiddle around with it and the 1,2,3,4 knob and got the lever where I wanted it now.

 

[ducvet]

"NOT THE ADJUSTMENT SCREW "

This probably refers to the bleed down screw or adjuster that goes into the master cylinder. The reason many say don't touch it is some use the adjustment as a reach adjuster. It controls the amount of fluid being pushed by the master and when it is pushed as well as returned so think timing.

On a clutch too much (in) and you can wear out your clutch plates from causing a slip. It on the other end can cause lack of fluid to the slave and difficulty shifting similar in feel to air in the line. If you understand what you are doing by all means adjust away, within a certain range it is perfectly safe.

Same screw on the brake lever can be dangerous to get wrong, too little and you have a soft brake, too much and you can lock the brakes and not be able to unlock them.

 

[steveg]

Now that's the answer I was looking for. No, I didn't touch the brake side.

Before the adjustment the lever was less than a pinky's width from the handle bar and I'm really not used to four fingers on the clutch.

Any idea what is the factory setting for both sides?
I'm sure it's already been messed with as I've had a few things to fix already. I highly doubt it was at factory to start off with..

Cheers,
Steve

 

[ducvet]

Bleed screws /adjustments are sealed at the factory if the adjusters are not fixed with glue or loctite then the lever has been changed or adjusted. I am not sure if the service manuals touch on bleed down as it was something we did not something we read. Tough when you don't do this all the time but I do it by eye and feel plus a couple decades experience. Start with too much (adjuster out) and then work your way in until there is little to no play in the lever then maybe 1/2 turn back out.

Again each lever,slave,clutch and master cylinder may be different from another so it needs to be where it needs to bve so they you do not slip the clutch when hot or have too much wasted lever travel with no separating the clutch pack. Everything is based on having a good master,lever and slave first.

 

[steveg]

Fully understand.
To be clear I am talking about the screw that is opposite the banjo bolt on the same axis. It was definitely not sealed.

There was over 5mm play on the lever before adjusting, now its around 3mm, but there is some free play, that's the important bit. If I remember right I am at one turn out.

The original slave leaked and po had drilled the banjo to make a bleeder, which also leaked. This has ben replaced with an oberon slave and braided hose. Yes, it still had the original hoses from 1998.

The steel plates were all rusted, fristion plates mostly worn. Measured at 33.0mm vs the (I believe) 36.4mm that is "stock"
This has been replaced by a TSS Slipper, simply bec I've used their stuff before and like it.

Thanks again for the explanation, much appreciated.

Cheers, Steve

 

[belter]

the adjustment screw on the lever that acts on the piston/piston pushrod:

if it's a coffin master, remove the cap and watch the fluid as you gently pull the lever in. cover the stuff around it so you don't spray brake fluid all over everything. it will spray out.

if it's a remote reservoir, watch the fluid level closely. you will see if move. don't need to be so gentle on the lever here.

it's only the free play section of lever travel that will push fluid out. and just because you can feel what you think is free play, doesn't mean that there actually is any.

if fluid pushes up into the reservoir when you pull the lever in, that means the compensating port is open which is defined by the piston rest position. wind the screw in the lever in too far and the piston is pushed into the master bore too far at rest and the compensating port is blocked. the problem with that is that, as the fluid heats up with engine heat, it wants to expand and it does so by flowing back through the compensating port into the reservoir.

if the compensating port is blocked, the system will pressurise. enough to lift the clutch pressure plate off the stack and make the clutch slip. on the brakes, it will lock the brakes on and you go nowhere until the fluid cools down or you release the pressure.

lots of people lock rear brakes when playing with pedal position in exactly the same way.

 

[belter]

ime, things that can make it drag, from the top:

air in the system. not as hard to bleed as many make out. if it's hard to bleed, turn the bars to the right and tilt the bike over so that the tip of the lever is the highest point and gently pull the lever in and out. this will work any air in the hose up to the master and out. if it's a coffin style master you can spray fluid everywhere doing this, so maybe put the cap on. you can feel the lever get harder if there's air coming out. slow pulls, a few fast, slow, tap the hose, make sure there's no high point loops in the hose, etc.

worn lever pivot - either the hole in the lever or the actual pin itself. st should have the older style large hollow pin lever pivot, the pins can wear a lot on bikes that don't get lubed, as can the lever. on these masters, the pin pushing the piston can also wear shorter.

on masters with the smaller, solid pin, the barrel on the end of the piston pushrod can wear in the lever, i've seen lots almost worn through the lever.

crap aftermarket levers giving excessive free play.

aftermarket slaves that are a larger in piston diameter, increasing the hydraulic ratio to soften the lever, but decreasing the slave piston travel correspondingly. the pressure plate might not be lifting far enough.

while not really drag specific, worn pushrods, slave pistons and seized pushrod bearings in the pressure plate. the seized bearing will spin the pushrod and it'll wear away and into the piston. i had a 900ss in once that the owner had had long time clutch issues with from new (tip - it's not the bike, it's you) when it was maybe 15 years old. it needed a new pack and once fitted i pumped the lever and the slave piston and pushrod were so worn that the piston popped out of the slave body. scared the shit out of me when it went bang.

warped steel plates. there should be 1 x 1.5mm "spring" steel plate, which is conical and if you put it on a flat surface and press the outer edge (if it's the right way up) the opposite edge will lift. the 7 friction plate pack the st had would also have had 8 x 2mm flat steel plates. using a very flat surface, check the rest of the steel plates to see if any of the other plates behave like the spring plate, flipping them to check both sides. if they do, they're warped and need replacing. you can't get around them being warped. you may also find someone has fitted more than 1 of the 1.5mm spring plates. there are also flat 1.5mm steel plates, used in the 1098 onwards 8 friction plate packs and the surflex sintered 8 friction plate packs that used to come in sp/sps/r models, so don't think any and all 1.5mm steel plates are springs. unless you have a stash of good steel plates, the only place to get them is a new complete pack. oem, barnett, ducabike, newfren, adige, surflex make packs. aluminium plates in a steel basket will make the plates sacrificial.

watching from above, pull the lever in and see if the spring caps move outwards as the lever free play takes up, then stop and then the pressure plate starts lifting off the pack. if so, the large star like washer at the front of the hub is eating its way into the hub. pretty common. you can add another washer (i've seen up to 4) or replace the hub if it's very worn. the original hub centre is a rubber block cush drive assembly, so it will move a little when ok, but only a little. if you remove the pressure plate and pack and push the hub backwards you can usually see the wear there.

i really don't agree that wear in the basket makes any real difference to how the clutch disengages. i have a customer that some idiot put steel plates into an aluminium basket 50,000km ago, and the plates have eaten their way quite a few mm into the basket. it's lovely to use.

sometimes, the peened out bits of the tangs on the plates in the picture can get between the steel plates and hold the pack apart and make it slip. just grind the peened out bits off and stick it back in.

so start at the top and work your way down. i've been intending to make a video of this for ever, but never get to it.

if you can't select neutral with the engine running, but it's easy with the engine off, it means the clutch is dragging.

if you have a large bore slave meant to change the ratio which will in itself extend the take up distance, you might be able to do away with the conical plate. worth trying.

 

[duc96cr]

Thanks Belter. Quite a comprehensive write up, very thorough. If you ever get around to making the video, please let us know. My Monster was very easy to find neutral until I replaced the slave with an Oberon, now it’s a real pita. I tried a different lever with no improvement.

 

[spacey]

I still have the original coffin style master cylinders on my '92. To improve system bleeding, I replaced the MC banjo bolts with bleed banjos. My recollection is now a bit foggy, but I believe these MCs require short banjo bolts. No one makes short bleed double banjo bolts for the two front brake lines. I bought a standard size and took it to a machine shop to have it shortened. Also sourced and used thicker crush washers as necessary. Makes it easier to get any bubbles at the top of the lines out.

 

[BOTT]

Return spring sends the piston home to the retainer C-clip. That's the given.
So any push on that piston [changing lever] from the OEM is pushing the pressure plate, expanding the springs.

Think:
Brake caliper pistons move 'out' when pads wear.
Clutch slave pistons move 'in' when friction plates wear.

Steel plates are stamped out of sheet steel, you notice a round curved side, the other side is sharp and flat. Flat side faces the pressure plate. Plates have memory.

Place your hands palm to palm and pray you didn't just throw those in any old way. Notice pressing your fingers fight each other. Place palm over the top of your hand. Notice fingers follow each other. Make [memory] sense?

Signed,
Stay OEM geekr buy twice) Club