Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys - went to ride the 900 SS/SP on Sunday. Bike started right up after two weeks. However, the clutch lever was without any resistance (punishment or not riding it...). Checked the reservoir and it was empty. Was not expecting this since no indication from almost weekly rides it was losing fluid, and weirdly - I cant find a pool of liquid under the bike. I will be getting the replacement fluid etc (I have the Snyder Maintenance book - need it since first Ducati, period, and bike in a long time). Any ideas what might have failed and lead to the leak? I need to investigate further of course - but no fluid on floor has me flummoxed. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or leads to follow...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
did you take off the belly pan to see if it leaked somewhere in there? (and hence didnt make it to the floor)

i'm thinking a pinched brake line, or a failed slave cylinder. i'd think you'd be able to visually inspect and see a leak from the slave.

also inspect where the lines bolt up to the master and the slave. perhaps a bolt got loose? i'm betting its that, and its the bolt on your master cylinder...


i mean, the fluid had to end up somewhere, rite?!! hahaha
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Agree - the fluid can't have disappeared/evaporated. I was also thinking its within the fairings. On initial inspection nothing was soaked/wet from reservoir to where the line was too hard to track. More effort on my part - will follow the line.
 

·
Señor Member
Joined
·
8,046 Posts
As slippery as brake fluid is, had it leaked from a fitting or the hose failed between the reservoir and the slave, you would have seen some fluid. Fill the reservoir, bleed it a lot, then look for a possible leak. The clutch slave can be difficult at times to properly bleed since it’s lower than the master. You may want to try reverse bleeding it, from the slave to the fitting at the master.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the ideas. One thing I noticed - even when I was buying the bike (and at that time I saw it as a good thing as bike was in such great original condition w/ <6k miles)- is that the clutch and brake lines appear to be "original" to the bike. These are all rubber, that's certain. Back of my mind is I may need to replace these lines if I'm going to ride the bike - which is the reason I bought it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
it'll have a leaking slave seal. either get a new seal and redo the slave - you'll need to give it a good linish by this time - or replace it with an aftermarket.
^^^This. If your slave cylinder is leaking, you may not see any fluid. Particularly if the rubber accordion like boot is in place and intact, fluid will build up in it, and work it's way out around the push rod or any kind of a hole. As the slave is just above and forward of the countershaft sprocket, fluid can leak out onto the chain. Once it starts doing that, you won't notice it because only a little leaks out at a time. The chain, then carries it away to get flung off onto the rear wheel and underside of the hugger and undertail.

The oring on the push rod doesn't have anything to do with clutch fluid retention. The push rod goes through the lay shaft and the orings simply seal that opening....sean
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
Thanks for the ideas. One thing I noticed - even when I was buying the bike (and at that time I saw it as a good thing as bike was in such great original condition w/ <6k miles)- is that the clutch and brake lines appear to be "original" to the bike. These are all rubber, that's certain. Back of my mind is I may need to replace these lines if I'm going to ride the bike - which is the reason I bought it.
I would suggest doing Dual braided brake lines/clutch line for sure. It made a huge difference in brake power and a smooth clutch. These are from Galfer…
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,478 Posts
^^^This. If your slave cylinder is leaking, you may not see any fluid. Particularly if the rubber accordion like boot is in place and intact, fluid will build up in it, and work it's way out around the push rod or any kind of a hole. As the slave is just above and forward of the countershaft sprocket, fluid can leak out onto the chain. Once it starts doing that, you won't notice it because only a little leaks out at a time. The chain, then carries it away to get flung off onto the rear wheel and underside of the hugger and undertail.

The oring on the push rod doesn't have anything to do with clutch fluid retention. The push rod goes through the lay shaft and the orings simply seal that opening....sean
Which is pretty much what happened with mine when the slave died. I replaced my OEM slave with an Oberon unit, which gives a lighter pull on the lever.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
^^^This. If your slave cylinder is leaking, you may not see any fluid. Particularly if the rubber accordion like boot is in place and intact, fluid will build up in it, and work it's way out around the push rod or any kind of a hole. As the slave is just above and forward of the countershaft sprocket, fluid can leak out onto the chain. Once it starts doing that, you won't notice it because only a little leaks out at a time. The chain, then carries it away to get flung off onto the rear wheel and underside of the hugger and undertail.

The oring on the push rod doesn't have anything to do with clutch fluid retention. The push rod goes through the lay shaft and the orings simply seal that opening....sean
Got the fairings off after dinner. From clutch lever to the slave cylinder bike is dry as a bone. See images below - which I think support what Iwannaduc and Belter suggested. The second photo seems to show schmutz behind the clutch/slave cylinder. I could pick up a fair amount of "oil"/fluid with my finger.

New cable from Galfer ordered. Also went ahead with the Oberon SC. New experience coming up. Should be doable with patience,LT Snyder book and some luck. And this forum....

Thanks for info so far.
 

Attachments

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,478 Posts
While you're working on one end of your clutch, now would be a good time to pull the cover off, and remove the pressure plate, and check the bearing in that.

Also - a word of caution re the Oberon slave. They seem to be designed primarily for the i.e. bikes, and need a spacer for the pushrod on the carbies. Mine was supplied without one... I managed to sort of fake it, and get it working - but have since found an alternative to the spacer. It turns out that the difference between the carby and injected clutch pushrods, is down to the 'hat' that sits over the end of the pushrod, and fits into the bearing on the pressure plate. So - if your new slave doesn't have the spacer - there's the fix.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,435 Posts
all the oberons i've ever bought have had the spacer.

i still find replacing the seal in the original slave and giving the bore a good linish is a perfectly acceptable result. it's lack of use and fluid changes and the bellows behind the slave that do the damage here imo.

check the bearing in the pressure plate, and check that the hub isn't worn at the big star washer. with the cover off and clutch assembled, pull the lever in and see if the springs caps out move with the pressure plate in the first part of the lever travel. if they do, adding another star washer is a good fix. or two - i added two to a bike this week.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
It was a simple plan.... Buy the Galfer clutch cable and the Oberon slave cylinder (from MotoWheels) Anodized Red (CLU-0116 - I-10 / I-11.1-CLU-0116), and get the bike back on the road. Today start working on it. Couple issues leading to questions:
(1) operational side of the Oberon looks different than the Ducati part I removed. Did I errantly buy the wrong Oberon clutch slave cylinder for by 900?
(2) the rubber bellows/gasket looks toasted. Possibly that was source of slow leak? Do I need to replace that bellows like gasket if using the Oberon.
(3) can anyone tell from the photo if the included "extension rod" blurred, in third image, is required. Suppose I just need to measure the rod sticking out of the clutch - and as long as this is 30mm, I would NOT require the extension rod, correct?
4) Last image shows residual fluid from slave - fluid was due to be changed.

I am also following a recent thread by Rex Coil 7 - that is also discussing 900 SS slave cylinders.

Thanks in advance for any tips or comments.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
926 Posts
The bellows are just there to keep chain lube and what ever else gets flung by the chain off of the push rod. That's it. No fluid retention or anything technical like that. Replacing it is a good idea to keep crap out of there but you can just reuse what you have until you buy a new one.

The Oberon IS different to the stock slave cylinder. Don't let the different look fool you, it will still work. As for the extension rod, the Oberon instructions say something like "if you need it, use it" and that's pretty much what I was told when I bought mine.

That said, the instructions for the EVR slave that I got state clearly that any Pre-2001 bike needs the extension.

Just judging from how crap the old fluid looks, I'd definitely get the clutch basket side off and have a look at the bearing in the pressure plate. Make sure it still moves freely and without any notchiness. A new one might be in order if you find that. Take the time to clean out the "hat" the push rod inserts into. There is a viton o-ring in there that should be kept clean and lubricated.

Hope all of that is of some help.....sean
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Helpful - re: the bellows rubber piece. will check the other side. Good tip.
The Oberon instructions state ..."* included in the kit is an extension rod (pre 2000 Ducati models), and should be fitted ONLY if the pushrod length is less than 30mm." Back to the garage....
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,478 Posts
The bellows are just there to keep chain lube and what ever else gets flung by the chain off of the push rod. That's it. No fluid retention or anything technical like that. Replacing it is a good idea to keep crap out of there but you can just reuse what you have until you buy a new one.

The Oberon IS different to the stock slave cylinder. Don't let the different look fool you, it will still work. As for the extension rod, the Oberon instructions say something like "if you need it, use it" and that's pretty much what I was told when I bought mine.

That said, the instructions for the EVR slave that I got state clearly that any Pre-2001 bike needs the extension.

Just judging from how crap the old fluid looks, I'd definitely get the clutch basket side off and have a look at the bearing in the pressure plate. Make sure it still moves freely and without any notchiness. A new one might be in order if you find that. Take the time to clean out the "hat" the push rod inserts into. There is a viton o-ring in there that should be kept clean and lubricated.

Hope all of that is of some help.....sean
The extension rod is needed as the Oberon slave is actually designed primarily for the ie clutch rods, which are slightly longer overall than the carbie ones. However - the extra length is in the above mentioned 'hat', which has a different length hole for the pushrod between the carbies, and the ie's. My Oberon turned up minus the extension, and while I did manage to get the clutch to work - it wasn't at it's best. Once I figured out the trick with the hat, it sorted out several problems.

I reused the rubber boot off the original slave on mine - it's pretty stuffed, and isn't doing much, but it keeps some of the rubbish away. Theoretically, the Oberon design negates the requirement for the boot, but...
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
...the banjo bolts provided were course threaded, and did not fit the master cylinder. Called Galfer and they shipped out the correct ones. I fit the original banjo bolt but struggled to get clutch fluid to flow. I may not have been using the Mityvac correctly so its back to the garage to sort it out. If I can't do this job, I'm doomed.....

The Oberon is well made - the tolerances to fit were tight but there were zero issues, I reused the rubber boot on the inside and the extension rod as well. Thanks to all for feedback on those points.

Still have to get to the other side and look at the clutch pack, springs etc. That will be a first too.... have to admit, do enjoy the challenge of wrenching on this bike. One step at a time, but if I can fix the clutch will replace the brake lines.
 
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top