Ducati.ms - The Ultimate Ducati Forum banner

1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm very lost at the moment, trying to determine if my chain needs to be replaced; bike is an S2R1000. This issue starts with a visit to the dealer to have my 15k mile service done. During the service, they called to tell me that my chain was worn and needed replacement. I told them I can do it myself, and don't do that during the service.

Fast forward to today; I'm planning a 1000 mile road trip next month, and I want to take care of the chain before the trip if it's an issue. I have an S4RS workshop manual I'm referring to for my wear criteria, which seems to not be an issue, as both bikes have the same DID 525 HV chain (different gearing, but not relevant to chain wear as I read it). The manual lists the wear limit as 256.5mm for 16 links (center-to-center).


I measured my chain and it isn't anywhere close to that; my links measured 240 mm center-to-center on the pins. That had me scratching my head. Out of curiosity, I measured the distance outside-to-outside of each of the respective links' chain plates; that measurement was 252 mm.


So, the thought process I have here:

1) I've always taken good care of this chain; lube and tension religiously. Just might not be worn and dealer was trying to pad his bottom line.
2) I started doubting that I was taking the measurement properly, and I need to have the chain adjuster to full slack for the measurement. I checked that off the possibilities because the chain would be at its longest when fully taut.
3) Is the number in the manual I have incorrect? I couldn't find any public-domain knowledge on the DID website for their wear limits. Does anybody have another Ducati workshop manual to compare data points?

So....what's the deal here? Is my chain good to go, or am I doing something wrong?
 

·
Old Wizard
Joined
·
3,006 Posts
Chain and Sprocket Replacement Criteria

All 525 chains have links that are 15.875mm long, pin-to-pin.

16 links x 15.875mm = 254mm nominal length

If the chain is assembled on the motorcycle, engage a low gear and rotate the back wheel so as to create 45 lb. of tension in the upper strand of the chain.

Measure the distance between the centers of two pins which are separated by 16 links (pin 1 to pin 17). Rotate the back wheel to move the chain and take this measurement for three different segment lengths of chain. Chains stretch different amounts at different locations.

If the measured distances are less than 256.5mm the chain is still good. When you exceed this number for any 16 link chain segment replace the chain and also the sprockets because the sprockets are worn-in to match the stretched chain and won't mate properly to a new chain.

Your chain should be frequently inspected for wear, tight joints, missing or damaged o-rings, and wear or damage to the component parts, especially the riveted master link that is often the weak link.
 

·
Super Senior Poster
Joined
·
6,328 Posts
Well DID chains are OEM with Ducati's so I would think that would be the way they check for wear also. Make sense ? My 999 service manual says the same thing. The way I read it is they want you to measure with the chain "taunt", not stretched stiff. In the picture they have "L" or length as measured from link pin to link pin, not the entire outer plate.
So I would use your lower figure. That's my take any way!
Don't listen to Shazaam, he'll have you mumbling numbers to yourself....:D:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Measure the distance between the centers of two pins which are separated by 16 links (pin 1 to pin 17).
Light bulb!

I was only counting 16 pins and measuring that distance, not 16 link plates to include the partially-visible interior plates. Will measure again tomorrow and see what I need to do.

Thanks for the help Shazaam.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
So this saga doesn't seem to be over yet. I bought an Afam quick change carrier set with the stock gearing and installed it this morning. I wrapped up the install and did a check on the components after tensioning the chain and verifying torque on all the fasters. The sprocket seems to have a lot more play than the OEM components, enough that it seems like this would eat a chain and rear sprocket for lunch. I took some video, hopefully it shows what I'm experiencing, it seems clear to me, but I know what I'm looking at.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZbVOUMupEPmdrVn7n0u579MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
 

·
The days are getting longer!
Joined
·
8,278 Posts
15k on the stock chain and your worried about whether the chain needs replaced because you're planning a 1000 mile trip? I'd change the chain and sprockets and never look back, peace of mind during the trip is well worth the price of admission. My 2 cents... ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Already changed the chain and sprockets, new problems with the new parts in post 5....
 

·
The days are getting longer!
Joined
·
8,278 Posts
Sorry, I missed that. Is it possible that you have a 520 sprocket and a 525 chain or something similar?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
The chain is definitely 525 (labeled on the side plates). The packaging for the sprockets show them to be 525 as well. I'm guessing the problem has to do with the quick change carrier, but I'm not really sure what could be allowing it to move that much. This is what I installed. I know a lot of people run these kits, especially on the 748/9x6/998 bikes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
729 Posts

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
It looks like I might need to transfer the bushing from the old sprocket to the new carrier. I had read that in another thread and wondered that when I was assembling it. The carrier didn't seem to have any more play on the flange than the original sprocket, but maybe I was wrong. How much of a pain was it to hammer that bushing out?

I read this in the last post of your thread though, so now I'm really mixed up. I'd assume I have the newest version as I just bought it this week.

I have the newer version AFAM carrier you mentioned which does not require the split bushing.
I know the washers are in correctly. There was only the cone washer which rides on the axle bearing, and the washer that goes under the large sprocket nut. I'll pull it apart and check the ID of the sprocket with the bushing, and the carrier without.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I pulled the assembly apart this morning and measured the diameter of the center of the carrier, as well as that of the old sprocket (with the bushing still installed). They are both right on 55 mm. The bushing material is at least 1 mm thick, so there is no way that would fit in the new carrier.

What's the chance that my cush drive rubbers/pins are worn out? I don't want to just keep throwing parts at this without any clue of whether they will fix it or not. I want to determine what is causing the problem.

All of the parts, minus the sprocket. Left to right: Cone washer/spacer; quick change carrier; sprocket flange with cush drive; outer axle washer, nut, and clip.



Sprocket flange and cush drive





Quick change carrier



Axle hardware

 

·
Come in Spinner :)
Joined
·
7,654 Posts
Is the new carrier a sloppy fit on the hub boss?
The carrier might be worn.
The carrier hub is the primary location for the sprocket, the cush drive holes are just for rotation.

.
 

·
Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
Joined
·
19,072 Posts
I just saw your video and that's not a normal amount of play. It's hard to tell in the video but if the movement is between the cush drive bushings outer shell and the sprocket carrier I'd first try refitting the bushings into the stock sprocket to check the fit there. They should be a snug slip fit with no play. If they are loose there I'd get new cush bushings. If they are tight in the original sprocket I'd suspect the new carrier holes are out of spec.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I tried swapping the new carrier for the old sprocket yesterday, and the cush drive bushings fit very snugly in both the new and old parts. The play feels more lateral, across the axle. I did verify the torque of the cush drive nuts, those were all fine at 35 ft-lbs. The way I see this assembly, that carrier should not be able to move at all once the axle nut is tight. The torque applied to the axle nut applies compression to all of those components, correct?

The only way the carrier would have play would be if it were milled to the incorrect thickness.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
I have a plain sprocket which is probably around 20,000 kms old and has had a bit of axial play like that for as long as I can remember... no shop ever picked up on it. I always thought it was intentional, it works like a floating brake rotor. The rear sprocket aligns itself to the front so there is reduced wear on the chain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Just a thought: how is the axle retained in the swingarm? I don't remember the order I tightened everything back up after assembly, but is it possible I shifted the whole axle if I torqued the left side axle nut while the eccentric clamp bolts were still loose? I'm going the check the torque on the right side wheel nut when I get home.
 

·
Retired Pipe Polisher C2H6O+
Joined
·
19,072 Posts
The wheel side nut only pulls the wheel up against the flange on the "axel". It won't have anything to do with the sprocket side.

The sprocket, or new sprocket carrier, does float on the cush bushings but there are bushing in the center that make it a slip fit on the axel. I know stupid question but did you get the bushing out of the stock sprocket and put in the new carrier?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
759 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
The sprocket, or new sprocket carrier, does float on the cush bushings but there are bushing in the center that make it a slip fit on the axel. I know stupid question but did you get the bushing out of the stock sprocket and put in the new carrier?
No, I didn't install the bushing in the new carrier. I measured the ID of both the old sprocket and the new carrier; they were as close to identical as my caliper could measure.

I had been wondering that in one of the posts above and I'm still unclear as to whether I need to or not. The last post in this threadthat pjonte referred me to had one statement that seemed to imply that the newest AFAM carriers do not require you to transfer the bushing. Of course, AFAM's website doesn't seem to even acknowledge existence of their quick change carrier, so there isn't a spec sheet or installation instructions to verify.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top