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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This weekend I was at my shop and didnt feel like working on my 10 other projects so I pulled the stock muffler/cats off to see how they were assembled. I drilled out he rivets on the side coming into the muffler as that is directly where the cats are located. I then pulled out the insert which holds the cat. I didn't take any pix of the ceramic cat install, but here it is with it removed. I used my shop press and push the core out and used my air hammer to remove the rest.

If you decide to do the same, make sure you have the right tools for the job as the material is very hard and you will not be able to just knock it out with a hammer. Once you start there is no going back. This is what the can looks like after you pull the insert out. You can see the actual muffler is only under half of the rear part of the can. It has one chamber that has two ports in and one out. There are very small.

with the gutted cat back on.

My impressions of the sound are as follows. It is noticebly louder but not as loud as the term slip-ons. Its not as deep sounding and that is because of the muffler design and how it differs, but it is not raspy either. On the road it is slightly louder, but when in 6th gear wind noise is louder than the bike. This would be a good option for someone that would like a little more noise but not as loud as the terms.

As for the performance difference. It revs much quicker and now it officially power wheelies in 2nd under full hard throttle albeit only about 6 inches, before it would not wheelie under full power in 2nd gear on a flat road. So it definetly has picked up some torque from 6k and up. The only down side is the bike is a little more smelly at idle. My next step is to pull them back apart and weld a straight threw collet to the cat housing, drill it out and pack around it with fiberglass to duplicate a full straight through muffler. This will give it even less restriction and give it back the low thunder a twin emits. I should get it done this week depending how busy I am at the shop. Also here the bikes is without the mufflers. I ran it this way and let me tell you, the 20 seconds I had it running and reving, I aquired a headache and DO NOT recommend running it this way, it is as loud as any open header vehicle. It is very high pitched and ear splitting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
throwing a leg over this beast is brave, gutting a cat is a walk in the park.....lol
 

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Thats how i did mine & they are VERY loud with a straight through insert.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Did you use a perforated insert and pack around it? I am curious as I may reduce it as its a large diameter and was concerned it would be waaay too loud even packing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
NICE! I can't beleive they are that loud though, that's a pretty big step down on the perforation, the thing I would say though is, the shorter the can, the louder it will be for sure. As for the issues with the power commander and o2 sensors, the power commander as I understand would intercept the signal coming from the ECU and change the signal. That is how most standard Air/Fuel Controllers work. They work well but ideally not perfect as you lose the closed loop systems ability to adjust to climate variances. It is possible they managed a way to interact with the ECU has they have been doing thing a long time and I have used their product for years, but I know that is how it was being done in the past. What I may do is pop in a wideband gauge and log my a/f ratios as you would do on a dyno to see where this engine is running. Have you had the reflash?
 

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Yes mate i,ve had the reflash, so a lot better but not perfect. I do have the fatducs but may/may not put them on . Will wait & see how much the power commander costs and get one sorted & get the thing on the dyno
 

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Bon Vivant
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tricklex, You don't have it exactly right - they used to work that way about four years ago but now with the closed/open loop systems the power commanders don't effect the lower RPM ranges while in closed loop operation hence the problems we are all facing...

It also has nothing to do with adjusting to "climate" (I assume you meant atmospheric density / altitude?) The ECU does that with both closed and open loop operation and a power commander does not change that ability.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Correct, I didnt mean the PC, the ECU would make the adjustments from the readings it took off the o2 sensors and possibly if they were running an Intake air sensor.

Ok so how are the new PC operating then? I am just trying to understand the changes. Maybe I will pop over to the PC site and see what they are up 2.

The understanding I know from the plethora of closed loop tuning I have done with AFC in the automobile world is if you adjusted 10% of the signal coming from the ECU to the injector and the ECU is making adjustments to the fuel map via the o2 sensor/map/maf/iat you would still effectively be able to still adjust the fueling where you want it to be while allowing the ambiet/alt changes to be handled by the closed loop system. In the open loop system with the old PC you are interrupting the signal coming from the ECU and adjusting that signal regardless of enviromental changes or what the o2 sensor would of been reading if it was there. This is all fine and dandy, but what really you are losing the the adjustability of timing which is more detrimental to engine life. These motors are naturally aspirated and even though highly tuned, they have some play room on exhaust change out. Closed loop system work rediculously well and as long as the ECU has enough % factor say 10% fueling tolerance, it will sort itself quite nicely. But to be fair, I dont know the programing of the Ducati ECU. I will sort it out as soon as the PC V is available as I have access to a dyno for tuning with a wideband.
 

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Bon Vivant
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The PC-V is currently available, unfortunately the system cannot alter AFR during closed loop operation. In other words, it is no different in this situation than the PCIII. The standard Ducati ECU does not allow adjustments to the ECU - period. The Race ECU has adjustability in the form of a "trimmer" altered with a Ducati DDS tool. The Race ECU (at least the ones up til now) run fully open loop and the PCIII/PC-V can alter at any RPM.
 

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You can also just remove the muffler and drill out the cat with a coring bit and then re-install the muffler. It is clean and easy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
The PC-V is currently available, unfortunately the system cannot alter AFR during closed loop operation. In other words, it is no different in this situation than the PCIII. The standard Ducati ECU does not allow adjustments to the ECU - period. The Race ECU has adjustability in the form of a "trimmer" altered with a Ducati DDS tool. The Race ECU (at least the ones up til now) run fully open loop and the PCIII/PC-V can alter at any RPM.
I follow you now. So the Race ECU, is this a complete replacement ECU or like an EPROM chip that replaces the core map chip in the ecu? I know this is how Aprilia was tuning on the early 2k RSVR's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
You can also just remove the muffler and drill out the cat with a coring bit and then re-install the muffler. It is clean and easy.
That would be for sure, but I had to make due with what I had! :D
 

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Let me tell ya. Its not that easy with the core drill . I used 2 & had to recharge my Makita cordless twice to get the fuckers out to no avail. In the end i used 10mm bit & went around in a circle with several holes & twatted it out with a chisel...Job Done. God that cat stuff is hard shit
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Gotcha, so just deal with the stock map below 4k....so we are stuck with running the o2 sensors regardless then, correct? So I build new headers I still must use the stock o2 sensors, no way around that unless I buy the race ECU?

Blackie, I did one with the air hammer and it was a pain, so the 2nd one I used a press and just pressed it out and used the air chisel to clean it up. And yes that sheet is hard!
 

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Let me tell ya. Its not that easy with the core drill . I used 2 & had to recharge my Makita cordless twice to get the fuckers out to no avail. In the end i used 10mm bit & went around in a circle with several holes & twatted it out with a chisel...Job Done. God that cat stuff is hard shit

I must have had a better bit (carbide tipped); I cored them cleanly in about 5 minutes each while my wife held them for me.
 
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